The End of Reef Keeping in the US?

[Bato367]

Thank you for the clarification.

A few days ago I did go to PIJAC and wrote my reps.

 

[MinnieMouse2]

The ocean needs healing. Reefs are declining at a rapid rate. There is a domino effect to everything that happens on this earth. Reefs are the building blocks of the ocean. Fish need corals for safety. Corals need fish for maintenance of the reef. Stopping the collection of reef fish that help maintain and sustain the ecological order isn't something I oppose. Who knows how many % of fish die before even making it to sale and how many die once they make it to our tanks.

Ive been in this hobby for 14 year. Most my fishes have been with me just as long. In the end it's a hobby for us. If collecting needs to be stopped for a few years to let the reef heal, Im all for it. Any true lover of hobby should probably feel the same. Don't let your selfishness be the reason why we don't have anymore reefs within 20 years.

This has nothing to do with saving the ocean. More likely a back door Peta is using to stop marine and fresh water tanks in general. If it was up to them, end goal is you only owning a cat or dog. This bill does not only effect us but also frog owners, reptiles, spider owners, all kinds of animals. It is just a game that ends pet ownership. China will still rake the seas to supply for their food and pet owners. Nothing to do with saving an ocean.

 

[MinnieMouse2]

Okay, actually just did a good bit of research on this whole thing. I'm in the process of writing an article for my law school's paper on this subject. In the Lacey Act (and all legislation more broadly), which this amendment will add to, terms are specifically defined later in the text.

For example, specifically in the Lacey Act, the term "fish or wildlife" means "...any wild animal, whether alive or dead, including without limitation any wild mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, mollusk, crustacean, arthropod, coelenterate, or other invertebrate, whether or not bred, hatched, or born in captivity, and includes any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof." Coelenterates as a group ultimately will capture the entirety of our coral-loving marine hobby. Add in the whole "whether or not bred, hatched, or born in captivity" bit, and we actually very well could see the death of the entirety of the U.S. Marine Aquaculture industry, unless there is either a very well-informed and broad writing of the "whitelist" of permitted organisms. The effect this would have on imports as well cannot be discounted; aquaculture and mariculture operations allow communities which would otherwise be either hunting or mining the reefs for economic gain to instead participate in partnering with the reefs for economic gain. Kill the marine aquarium industry, and we kill many burgeoning economic spots of growth that simultaneously foster partnership with nature.

The amendment is not altogether bad, honestly, but as with all things, the law of unintended consequences will always apply.

Can I say outlaw animals make drugs legal. Has that not been the push to make all drugs legal? What a freaking clown world. This is their top issue not all the run down cities or homeless camps. Fent is killing thousands of people every few months. Nearly 92,000 people in the U.S. died from drug-involved overdose in 2020, including illicit drugs and prescription opioids. This your brain on drugs a nation of people turned on tuned out and now living in a deep dish third world nation.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

The ocean needs healing. Reefs are declining at a rapid rate. There is a domino effect to everything that happens on this earth. Reefs are the building blocks of the ocean. Fish need corals for safety. Corals need fish for maintenance of the reef. Stopping the collection of reef fish that help maintain and sustain the ecological order isn't something I oppose. Who knows how many % of fish die before even making it to sale and how many die once they make it to our tanks.

Ive been in this hobby for 14 year. Most my fishes have been with me just as long. In the end it's a hobby for us. If collecting needs to be stopped for a few years to let the reef heal, Im all for it. Any true lover of hobby should probably feel the same. Don't let your selfishness be the reason why we don't have anymore reefs within 20 years.

Not to be a jerk but when was the last time you bought a wild collected frag, fish, or invert from your LFS?

I do try to purchase captive bred and aqua cultured fish/corals as much as possible, but I like everyone in this hobby do have wild caught in my tank. So I am just as responsible for impact to the reefs as anyone in the hobby.

While I agree that the reefs are in decline, but is is a manmade issue or natural cyclical order? No one can really say with 100% certainty. Also keep in mind that collection for the hobby only accounts for a fraction of livestock removed from the reefs. The largest percentage of fish removed are intended for human consumption. Something in which this law does absolutely nothing about. It's nothing more than pandering to special interest groups.

This has nothing to do with saving the ocean. More likely a back door Peta is using to stop marine and fresh water tanks in general. If it was up to them, end goal is you only owning a cat or dog. This bill does not only effect us but also frog owners, reptiles, spider owners, all kinds of animals. It is just a game that ends pet ownership. China will still rake the seas to supply for their food and pet owners. Nothing to do with saving an ocean.

If PETA had their way we wouldn't be allowed to keep cats or dogs as pets either. They don't care about animal rights or welfare. This is proven by how many perfectly healthy animals they "rescue" from shelters only to euthanize them shortly after. The number is in the thousands annually. So much so that many animal rights groups speak out against them for doing it. Does PETA really care about animals? Hardly...

 

[biecacka]

How many of these threads do we really need??? A simple search would have let the OP just add to one of the many existing threads already. Plus as others have stated, the bill could have minimal impact on the hobby depending on the final language. second, I dont think the amendment even makes the final cut of the bill. It is an add on that is most likely a fish out of water ( see my pun there? ). The bill will likely fail in senate and then go to negotiations from there. Thats how politics work....No need for more fear mongering please.

corey

 

[T-J]

The ocean needs healing. Reefs are declining at a rapid rate. There is a domino effect to everything that happens on this earth. Reefs are the building blocks of the ocean. Fish need corals for safety. Corals need fish for maintenance of the reef. Stopping the collection of reef fish that help maintain and sustain the ecological order isn't something I oppose. Who knows how many % of fish die before even making it to sale and how many die once they make it to our tanks.

Ive been in this hobby for 14 year. Most my fishes have been with me just as long. In the end it's a hobby for us. If collecting needs to be stopped for a few years to let the reef heal, Im all for it. Any true lover of hobby should probably feel the same. Don't let your selfishness be the reason why we don't have anymore reefs within 20 years.

Yes, the ocean is not in a good place right now. But it's not because of our hobby. The warming of the ocean is what is killing off the reefs. There are some great documentaries and research out there showing what the biggest threat is, and it's not Johnny the R2R member that has his Yellow Tang.

In fact, this hobby might be our reefs savior. Scientists are working with coral farmers that have species that thrive in warmer water. Not only can we grow corals for our tanks, but we might be growing the corals that will help re-grow the reefs.

Having said that, I do buy aquacultured fish and corals whenever possible. Not only does it keep my hands out of the ocean, but it increases the chance that my coral will thrive in my tank.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

How many of these threads do we really need??? A simple search would have let the OP just add to one of the many existing threads already. Plus as others have stated, the bill could have minimal impact on the hobby depending on the final language. second, I dont think the amendment even makes the final cut of the bill. It is an add on that is most likely a fish out of water ( see my pun there? ). The bill will likely fail in senate and then go to negotiations from there. Thats how politics work....No need for more fear mongering please.

corey

I am the OP... If you read the first post, you would know the answer to your question.. I originally asked if others had received a specific email from a vendor regarding the Lacey Act. There are no threads that answer that question.. Sadly, this one doesn't either.

However, I'm glad this post has developed as it has. There are multiple facets that have been discussed in this forum that are not covered in any of the other.

I invite you to read the content of this thread, I hope you will learn something.. If not, you are much smarter then I.

Ben

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

What is wrong with all of you???? It's been over 10 minutes since someone made a post freaking out about this ridiculous topic!!! Let's take this seriously!!!

 

[Lyss]

What is wrong with all of you???? It's been over 10 minutes since someone made a post freaking out about this ridiculous topic!!! Let's take this seriously!!!

I find this to be rude -- ppl can talk about what they want to talk about, you could bow out if you don't like it.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

What is wrong with all of you???? It's been over 10 minutes since someone made a post freaking out about this ridiculous topic!!! Let's take this seriously!!!

I don't understand your post. I don't think anyone, at least in this thread, is freaking out.

However, I agree, we should all take this issue seriously.

 

[fish farmer]

Okay, actually just did a good bit of research on this whole thing. I'm in the process of writing an article for my law school's paper on this subject. In the Lacey Act (and all legislation more broadly), which this amendment will add to, terms are specifically defined later in the text.

For example, specifically in the Lacey Act, the term "fish or wildlife" means "...any wild animal, whether alive or dead, including without limitation any wild mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, mollusk, crustacean, arthropod, coelenterate, or other invertebrate, whether or not bred, hatched, or born in captivity, and includes any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof." Coelenterates as a group ultimately will capture the entirety of our coral-loving marine hobby. Add in the whole "whether or not bred, hatched, or born in captivity" bit, and we actually very well could see the death of the entirety of the U.S. Marine Aquaculture industry, unless there is either a very well-informed and broad writing of the "whitelist" of permitted organisms. The effect this would have on imports as well cannot be discounted; aquaculture and mariculture operations allow communities which would otherwise be either hunting or mining the reefs for economic gain to instead participate in partnering with the reefs for economic gain. Kill the marine aquarium industry, and we kill many burgeoning economic spots of growth that simultaneously foster partnership with nature.

The amendment is not altogether bad, honestly, but as with all things, the law of unintended consequences will always apply.

When referring to the US Marine Aquaculture Industry, I assume you mean private and not government funded/approved.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Not to be a jerk but when was the last time you bought a wild collected frag, fish, or invert from your LFS?

I do try to purchase captive bred and aqua cultured fish/corals as much as possible, but I like everyone in this hobby do have wild caught in my tank. So I am just as responsible for impact to the reefs as anyone in the hobby.

While I agree that the reefs are in decline, but is is a manmade issue or natural cyclical order? No one can really say with 100% certainty. Also keep in mind that collection for the hobby only accounts for a fraction of livestock removed from the reefs. The largest percentage of fish removed are intended for human consumption. Something in which this law does absolutely nothing about. It's nothing more than pandering to special interest groups.



If PETA had their way we wouldn't be allowed to keep cats or dogs as pets either. They don't care about animal rights or welfare. This is proven by how many perfectly healthy animals they "rescue" from shelters only to euthanize them shortly after. The number is in the thousands annually. So much so that many animal rights groups speak out against them for doing it. Does PETA really care about animals? Hardly...

big part manmade, not even just warming and all the issues that we have due to it, massive issues with fishing and mainly trawls, as well as pollution and disturbance from boats. Major more closed in diving and swimming areas also get smeared with toxic chemicals in sunscreen and it kills all the corals in the area.

 

[DE FISH]

Here we go with the same dooms day stuff at the end of the day there is so much money + tax being made out this hobby it’s isn’t going to stop period

 

[SlugSnorter]

Here we go with the same dooms day stuff at the end of the day there is so much money + tax being made out this hobby it’s isn’t going to stop period

not that much, PETA is a giant lobbying ************

 

[DE FISH]

Millions upon billions being made may as well say the tropical and cold water industry is ending as well will never happen too many big cats in the game and government who can’t afford the loss in revenue

 

[N.Sreefer]

Yes if he was familiar with Canadian geography we do not have tropical reefs like Florida and Hawaii so yes when we hear a potential ban in USA this impacts us greatly . I would say that every LFS in Canada imports their fish and coral from a USA vendor. I am not 100% on this but I am 98% sure ..... so yes its a big concern

There's an importer in Toronto with a Cites import certificate that supplies alot of LFS on the eastern seaboard with coral/fish. All the coral and SW fish I get land in BC or Ontario before shipping to the maritimes. But not through the U.S.A. Transshipping through the U.S is a thing of the past its cheaper and easier to ship direct air freight to Canada. Seeing as our environmental law is leaps and bounds ahead of the U.S I don't see a bill being amended to include law like ours with cites control and the sort effecting us in any way.

 

[DE FISH]

I’ll see you all in two years time still happily reefing tired of these click bait threads

 

[Porpoise Hork]

I don't understand your post. I don't think anyone, at least in this thread, is freaking out.

However, I agree, we should all take this issue seriously.

I find this to be rude -- ppl can talk about what they want to talk about, you could bow out if you don't like it.

There was a hint of sarcasm or a bit of this in his post.

 

[zoaprince]

Millions upon billions being made may as well say the tropical and cold water industry is ending as well will never happen too many big cats in the game and government who can’t afford the loss in revenue

But PETA!!!111

 

[lion king]

We need something to control the **** and pillage mentality that dominates this hobby, I am so sick of all the death. This is even far enough for me.