Is the 4 year tank, peak reefing?

[Reefer Matt]

My SPS display tank is 5 1/2 years old. I’m kinda new to reefing (7 years total) when compared to a lot of others here. I think around year 4-5 is when we hit the peak of confidence. We think we can do anything because nothing too terrible has happened so far. Then that confidence turns into complacency and an event occurs. What we do after that event will define what the peak of our reefing is. If we quit, then yes, the peak is over. If we learn and move on, then the peak is yet to come. I expect bad things to happen because we cannot control life, we can only contain it. I wish you the best luck moving forward.

One I am unsure of age is @Reefer Matt .

This tank is 5 1/2 years old

Here is the progression of it…

Then and now! show me your tank transformations!!

Show me either your then and now tanks, or your then and now coral!!!

www.reef2reef.com

 

[spsick]

Perhaps some planktonic or other cycles run their course in that time without new introductions?

OP I see the tank was bare bottom so nothing with sand bed buildup. What was your water change frequency?

My system has been in operation 10 or so years but has gone through several upgrades that always include new sand but nothing else really.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I agree with what @Dan_P said. However, I also believe that its equally likely that the tank fails due to similar reasons younger tanks fail (many reasons). Keeping a tank longer does give you experience, but if you dont stay on top of things why would a 5 year old tank not crash? If a balance is achieved, which is generally what most people aim for, a disruption to that balance isnt necessarily any less likely to lead to a disaster than an 8 month old tank. This thread reminded me of the "gamblers fallacy" in statistics for some reason. For example, if a penny lands on heads 99 times in a row, it isnt any more or less likely to land on tails the next toss than it was the first time tossed. I assume the link in my mind would be that constant success for 4 years might make hobbyists feel that the tank will continue to be successful and becuause of that belief, they dont monitor it as closely.

 

[SauceyReef]

I am at the 4 year mark here with my Fluval Evo (you can see the build thread on the left). I definitely see a lot of your points and agree with most of it. In both my tanks (4 years+, and 3 years +) the corals are growing into each other causing random deaths from lack of space. You really learn with a tightly packed nano that all these corals and anemones are meant to have larger amounts of space in the wild. Plus they are not even used to most of the corals around them as theyre from all over the world..

That is just part of the biological aspect of difficitulties having a 4+ year old tank. Most reef equipment is only meant to last 2-5 years, so at the 4 year mark I have noticed a lot of random big and small failures. Sometimes they can be hard to notice, sometimes your light or heater can just go out on you over night.. Plus the tank itself can only last so long.

 

[wjm6449]

I feel like you on to something here.

In nature, coral, particular SPS coral, is constantly being predated on, broken off, or pruned by other natural means. In an home aquarium, that's not always the case. Maybe the constant struggle of surviving in the wild spurs some sort of biological mechanism that promotes a more healthy coral colony - even beyond exceeding the biomass caring capacity of the system, as I have have seen some really full tanks that seem to thrive and get past that 3 or 4 year mark


Some of the best looking, long-lived tanks have owners who regularly prune and trim

Makes sense. You’d groom your outdoor garden if it gets too large because it’ll eventually not be capable of being supported by the surrounding nutrients in the soil… should be a similar concept in the tank. Maintenance gardening.

 

[Debramb]

I have seen some pretty long lived threads on tanks lately I wish I remembered their names to give them a shout out here. One @Randy Holmes-Farley had commented on richard something (sorry) the op of that tank commented on giving the tank a "haircut" multiple times. One I am unsure of age is @Reefer Matt . Obviously @Paul B probably has the oldest tank here but it isnt sps dom and it also gets live foods but maybe with the addition of live foods it helps the microbiome.

I know my 120g euphyllia tank was more than 4-5 years old and not changed before I got out in 2010 my sps 125g was probably at the 5year mark. I was constantly cutting corals in the sps tank but rarely did I do that in the 120, maybe once a year.

Paul B. Also uses fresh seawater for water changes. I think he’s got the right idea!
Debra (my 2 cents on a GREAT discussion!)

 

[Reefer Matt]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I constantly prune my tank. So much so that the “undesirable” coral sometimes get discarded. Only so many monti caps and pocci that people want. In a 75 gallon, it gets overgrown pretty quickly, and flow gets restricted.

 

[lakai]

I feel like you on to something here.

In nature, coral, particular SPS coral, is constantly being predated on, broken off, or pruned by other natural means. In an home aquarium, that's not always the case. Maybe the constant struggle of surviving in the wild spurs some sort of biological mechanism that promotes a more healthy coral colony - even beyond exceeding the biomass caring capacity of the system, as I have have seen some really full tanks that seem to thrive and get past that 3 or 4 year mark


Some of the best looking, long-lived tanks have owners who regularly prune and trim

I feel like for a tank with mature SPS, Fragging or pruning regularly is probably essential. We all know how cutting a nub off a dorman frag can get it to start growing. That is something I didn't do.

 

[lakai]

That whole “coast with minimal effort” thing leads me to believe it’s not just an age thing. I’m not saying you neglected your tank but, imo coasting is when stuff starts to die because you’re thinking it looks good and fine and you start to slack on maintenance. Not maintaining the tank the with same effort you once did can bring on a slow boil of change for the worse. The microbiome is living and always changing, IMO the microbiome also changes because of our maintenance schedules. By not maintaining it the same way on schedule the microbiome will try and cover for us Until it changes too much and bad stuff starts to take over.

That is fair but what I mean by "Minimal Effort" is that by then most people will tend to stop trying new things or tinkering because everything looks great. It doesn't mean that I just do any less than before or slack off on anything. Everything just becomes routine and it becomes less effort because we've been doing it consistently.

 

[lakai]

I agree with what @Dan_P said. However, I also believe that its equally likely that the tank fails due to similar reasons younger tanks fail (many reasons). Keeping a tank longer does give you experience, but if you dont stay on top of things why would a 5 year old tank not crash? If a balance is achieved, which is generally what most people aim for, a disruption to that balance isnt necessarily any less likely to lead to a disaster than an 8 month old tank. This thread reminded me of the "gamblers fallacy" in statistics for some reason. For example, if a penny lands on heads 99 times in a row, it isnt any more or less likely to land on tails the next toss than it was the first time tossed. I assume the link in my mind would be that constant success for 4 years might make hobbyists feel that the tank will continue to be successful and becuause of that belief, they dont monitor it as closely.

The thing is though, a mature reef has a totally different set of problems than a new one. Equipment failures, Pruning, Shading, Flow are a few that I think become more important than ever.

 

[rossco]

My tank is 13 years old this month. It is very mature, has had its ups and downs with 3 major “crashes” over the years. It’s doing well now.

As stated above, shading and flow are the biggest day to day issue.

Equipment failure (mostly Alk swings due to getting too comfortable with automation and not catching CA reactor hiccups) and external influences such as forest fire smoke have been problem for me as well. (The forest fire smoke being injected into the system via the skimmer).

 

[Formulator]

I know there are people who tanks that are 10-20 years old but sorry if this offends anyone but most people that claim to have a tank that old have never shown them or the ones I have seen don't look that great imo.

You haven’t looked at enough tanks then. Plenty of old tanks look great.

I don’t think there is any magical or scientific explanation for reefs falling off at the 4-5 year mark. I think its more likely that is about the time people get bored or complacent in the hobby and neglect settles in.

 

[UMALUM]

Could we be seeing the effects of prolonged carbon dosing and it's relationship with pathogenic bacteria?

 

[Reefer Matt]

I think its more likely that is about the time people get bored or complacent in the hobby and neglect settles in.

I second that. Especially when the display tank is full. The thrill of adding and growing coral goes away, and it all becomes just maintenance from that point. That’s why I like frag tanks better than displays. I am constantly getting new species for aquaculture and learning about them. When the tanks fill up, I sell the frags and get other ones.

 

[rtparty]

Many used to refer to this as old tank syndrome. I’ve never bought into that theory. I think there is almost always an explanation. Finding that explanation can be the tricky part.

One thing I have watched over the years is older tanks start having serious issues with shading and flow. Corals start to die at the base or inner most parts. This dying and weakening of the colony allows a pathogen to grab hold and become a dominant player. That pathogen jumps from coral to coral causing havoc and the system can’t handle it. Corals start dying at a rapid rate, alkalinity spikes from less consumption, and boom you have the perfect storm.

My last system was a little over 2 years old when I started seeing signs of its decline. Nothing was dying yet but I saw my initial mistakes and the only fix was a total reset IMO. I knew all new rock work was needed along with a massive pruning. It had become far too much work and I didn’t enjoy the hobby in the least any longer. So I sold it all off in its prime.

So my opinion is that far too many just let things go when most tanks in the 3-5 year range are in need of a major reset.

 

[Laughterman]

I'm not into hard corals. but since I have taken out all the sand out of my softie tank, I have found that my softies are flourishing and I can not see that my tank will crush. That's one of the reasons I have taken out all the sand in my tank as I'm dead scared of the old tank syndrome. I have since taken the same principle to my fish only tank with live rock as well and the fish are doing amazingly well. No changes in the water chemistry that I have found during the last two years since I have made the sudden changes. Maybe I'm just blessed in that regard with a good protein skimmer that's actually very small for that tank, but is doing an amazing job.

 

[McPuff]

I agree with @Formulator . It's more about getting complacent for many people. I have been there and it takes a good amount of effort to right the ship. I'm coming off a complacent period now in fact. It has taken 4 months to get to the point where things are looking "right" again. My reef was started in 2005 but has moved 3 times so each of those were likely a positive inflection point due to the massive amount of "cleaning" that was done upon moving.

 

[NaCl addict]

We spend the first year screwing around with our tanks constantly, we'll put our hands in our tanks almost daily, do weekly water changes and freak out over a light patch of brown diatoms because it disrupts our perfectly clean sand and aquascape visually. As we approach year two we've dealt with most ugly algaes, pests and hopefully either avoided or won the battle against the dreaded dinos. Around this time our tanks built up the necessary microbiome and really found stability to where anything we throw in the tank can grow. We start noticing real progress the less we mess with it, we don't put our hands in the tank unless completely necessary. During this time any frags have become colonies and the next two years you kind of coast by running the tank on auto-pilot with minimal effort an is the time we really get to just enjoy our tanks.

This is what my tank looked like at around Year 3.

Then something happens. you wake up with one colony rtn overnight and that becomes the start of a slow deterioration of your tank to the point where enough corals have died to where we have to do something about it. I always noticed that many people either do a major reboot of their tanks or the tank crashes around the 4-5 year mark for whatever reason. At minimum there is some major disruption that we really can't explain during this time and its nothing we can see on a ICP because lets be honest, 4 year old colonies aren't going to die because your nutrients are higher.

This is my tank at year 5-6.

My best guess is there was some shift in the microbiome and I'm not talking about anything that comes in a bottle (Persoally I would never start another tank with any of that stuff anymore ) Losing all of my coral sucks but thats not going to stop me from restarting. This time around, I know exactly what to do if there is a problem or know if should do anything at all.

I know there are people who tanks that are 10-20 years old but sorry if this offends anyone but most people that claim to have a tank that old have never shown them or the ones I have seen don't look that great imo.

I would like to hear some experiences from those of you who had a similar experience at around year 4 or at least have a more advanced discussion on what we can do to keep our corals looking amazing longer.

We are always learning, I'm hitting my wall at 3.5 yrs

 

[NaCl addict]

I'm not into hard corals. but since I have taken out all the sand out of my softie tank, I have found that my softies are flourishing and I can not see that my tank will crush. That's one of the reasons I have taken out all the sand in my tank as I'm dead scared of the old tank syndrome. I have since taken the same principle to my fish only tank with live rock as well and the fish are doing amazingly well. No changes in the water chemistry that I have found during the last two years since I have made the sudden changes. Maybe I'm just blessed in that regard with a good protein skimmer that's actually very small for that tank, but is doing an amazing job.

What is old tank syndrome?

 

[NaCl addict]

We are always learning, I'm hitting my wall at 3.5 yrs

There is always a reason