The Reef Hobby- An Endangered Species?

[artreef]

Hi Im from the Philippines ,having a law in place prohibiting posession of corals except if it is for educational or scientific purposes, hence thousands of reef keepers are very active and even there's a lot of saltwater petshops around. I have formed a small group of hobbyist that has done a small scale coral farming,putting back excess grown coral frags back to the natural reef and taking small frags from one area to another area with less corals, initiated by the idea of proposing to our govt that reefkeeping has a chance to be allowed and prooving that we can be part of the solution in saving our natural reef which is bombarded by iresponsible and destructive way of fishing and global warming to name a few. Re-forrestation and mangrove planting is already practiced by responsible groups and environmentalists and aknowledged by our govt.

The recently passed US legislation about the Endangered Species Act putting more coral genus to threathen the hobby there in the US would certainly have a great impact in the hobby up to the business level (suppliers and retailers). The common impression of a regular person to our hobby is ( as i have noticed from friends who have seen my livestocks) is that hobbyists are part of the problem about the natural reef declining in its natural existence. They doesnt understand yet that we are spending much time and money understanding and making our personal reef in its healthiest form.

I believe that the people outside the hobby must be informed that us hobbyists are part of the solution. It is not only getting different species from the wild and putting them inside our tanks.

 

[nitrox36]

The fact that there are still some coral vendors who are tearing reefs up, and posting video of them doing such. I think that we should not support such gross way to make a buck. There are many people lobbying trying to kill these bills but in fact the ones who are doing the damage are serving their evidence against the hobby on a silver plate. This is why I refuse to buy any corals from these people. Imo. It is our job as hobbyist to propagate rather than go diving and devour our precious reefs to make a buck. I can only hope and pray that the decision in the end is not to take what we love away. I agree 100% that we are (as hobbyists) part of the solution.well put delirium !

 

[BfishLpond78]

My question is where were all the people that stand to loose the most from this and not just the hobbyist. Where was the equipment manufacturers, distributes, importers, coral farmers, retailers, people that own the forums and websites etc.

This is what I want to know where are all the big names in this hobby that have built a small empire from it. I realize this post is only a few days old, but how come they are not chiming in to provide some insight or plan of action. Every single coral vendor that has a legit business should be in line signing up to do something about this, making a documentary on how their business is not impacting the reef in the way that is being said. We the hobbyists who are buying our corals, fish, and equipment from you the vendor should have some faith that you will stand up for us. Now I don't mean to say that hobbyist should do nothing, you the vendor are way more experienced and knowledgeable about the subject. We buy from you because we trust that what you are doing and selling is genuine. You are basically our elected officials right now to use your experience and connections within this hobby to start standing up for YOUR business and YOUR way of life.

People have mentioned that we should write to our local government, maybe someone can draft us a letter to send highlighting key points and arguments so we could send them. Most of us don't know the full details or facts and I feel a bunch of people would just write letters saying "Don't ban coral, we grow them and trade them and we're not taking them from the reefs"

So where are all the big name vendors? You have hundreds of gallons of water in your basement maybe even a small warehouse..... Rows and rows of equipment and hardware... Lets get together and figure out a way to keep the hobby going and keep food on your tables....

Scott...so as a hobbyist, what else can we do besides sharing this information with our local clubs and spreading the word?

 

[marke]

Great and important thread. Any way to get This lobby group who we are funding to come out and talk to us? They should have been at macna. They should be at every upcoming frag event. They should visit and talk to local clubs. It's great if we all take action but so far the only action I can think of is sending money and spreading the word. I think more money would be raised making their battle more effective if the group receiving the money shared their views and actions or expectations face to face as opposed to just read my web page.

 

[uniquecorals]

The fact that there are still some coral vendors who are tearing reefs up, and posting video of them doing such. I think that we should not support such gross way to make a buck. There are many people lobbying trying to kill these bills but in fact the ones who are doing the damage are serving their evidence against the hobby on a silver plate. This is why I refuse to buy any corals from these people. Imo. It is our job as hobbyist to propagate rather than go diving and devour our precious reefs to make a buck. I can only hope and pray that the decision in the end is not to take what we love away. I agree 100% that we are (as hobbyists) part of the solution.well put delirium !

Excellent points...As I have stated numerous times since I've been a hobby author and lecturer, and now a vendor- we need to "vote with our pocketbooks" and not support those who engage in or promote unethical, non-sustainable, and otherwise detrimental practices. With more scrutiny on us that ever before, there is simply no room for this behavior, and the reefs have no defense against such practices- short of US.

If we don't "self regulate" to a certain point, you see what happens...

And, for clarification- I'm not pointing this stuff out to somehow glorify my company and hold us up as the ultimate model of sustainable practice and ethics, as one vendor asserted yesterday in a private communication. I'm pointing this out because we are NOT perfect- not even close- and make mistakes and bad judgements that can sometimes even be detrimental to the very hobby we are trying to support. Pretty much every vendor and hobbyist does. That's being honest.

Fortunately, many of us have corrected our mistakes, and continue to hold ourselves to high standards. Every vendor needs to look themselves in the eye and ask themselves if they are doing their share to promote ethical hobby practices, consistent with treasuring the priceless resources of the reefs.

It's the reality that we must face, and it's the right thing to do.

-Scott

 

[invertinoob]

So instead of frag swaps we can have "reef hobbiest support groups"

 

[MikeTucc]

Great and important thread. Any way to get This lobby group who we are funding to come out and talk to us? They should have been at macna. They should be at every upcoming frag event. They should visit and talk to local clubs. It's great if we all take action but so far the only action I can think of is sending money and spreading the word. I think more money would be raised making their battle more effective if the group receiving the money shared their views and actions or expectations face to face as opposed to just read my web page.

Hey there, FYI the talk that was given at MACNA by Julian and others essentially WAS this lobby group (PIJAC marine). They were at last year's MACNA too, out in front of the exhibit hall with a booth that saw almost no foot traffic the whole time
I think the subcommittee consists of 6, maybe 10 people who are really busy running their respective businesses. I wish they could be at every frag swap, but most of their limited funding is going directly to working on this and a few other ESA listing decisions at the moment. However, I know they're working on a more public outreach to hobbyists that should launch soon. In the mean time, if you guys have questions I'll do my best to answer them. Again, I'm not a member of the group but a supporter who has helped with some of their work in the past.

 

[uniquecorals]

Hey there, FYI the talk that was given at MACNA by Julian and others essentially WAS this lobby group (PIJAC marine). They were at last year's MACNA too, out in front of the exhibit hall with a booth that saw almost no foot traffic the whole time
I think the subcommittee consists of 6, maybe 10 people who are really busy running their respective businesses. I wish they could be at every frag swap, but most of their limited funding is going directly to working on this and a few other ESA listing decisions at the moment. However, I know they're working on a more public outreach to hobbyists that should launch soon. In the mean time, if you guys have questions I'll do my best to answer them. Again, I'm not a member of the group but a supporter who has helped with some of their work in the past.

Awesome, thank you. There needs to be more widespread information then what can be expected of these busy people...An issue so important deserves more coverage, more resources, and more clarity, and we can't expect these guys to do it all for us...We need to get involved however we can...

 

[jleoni]

• For those of you who are in various facebook groups, forums such as these lead by example. Show your groups that you donated, let people know how serious you take this. If each of us donated just $25.00 the price of a small Zoanthid mixed rock then we could raise MILLIONS in our defense.
  
  It starts with ME and now it's YOUR turn ... Show your people you donated and lead by example!
  
  Contributor:
  Donations Coordinator:
  
  Justin Leoni
  Killen, AL 35645
  United States
  Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council
  
  This Payment will appear on your credit card statement as "PayPal *PETINDUSTRY"
  
  Confirmation Number: 6YU49158706534708 Placed on Sep 5, 2014
  Purpose Donation amount
  PIJAC Marine Ornamental Defense Fund
  Reference: Marine
  
  
  
  
  

 

[shred5]

This is what I want to know where are all the big names in this hobby that have built a small empire from it. I realize this post is only a few days old, but how come they are not chiming in to provide some insight or plan of action. Every single coral vendor that has a legit business should be in line signing up to do something about this, making a documentary on how their business is not impacting the reef in the way that is being said. We the hobbyists who are buying our corals, fish, and equipment from you the vendor should have some faith that you will stand up for us. Now I don't mean to say that hobbyist should do nothing, you the vendor are way more experienced and knowledgeable about the subject. We buy from you because we trust that what you are doing and selling is genuine. You are basically our elected officials right now to use your experience and connections within this hobby to start standing up for YOUR business and YOUR way of life.

People have mentioned that we should write to our local government, maybe someone can draft us a letter to send highlighting key points and arguments so we could send them. Most of us don't know the full details or facts and I feel a bunch of people would just write letters saying "Don't ban coral, we grow them and trade them and we're not taking them from the reefs"

So where are all the big name vendors? You have hundreds of gallons of water in your basement maybe even a small warehouse..... Rows and rows of equipment and hardware... Lets get together and figure out a way to keep the hobby going and keep food on your tables....

Scott...so as a hobbyist, what else can we do besides sharing this information with our local clubs and spreading the word?

Exactly.. We need some leadership, someone to take the reins. We see all these talks at Macna, where are these speakers on this and why they are not talking on this subject. Even if they only mentioning it at the end of their talk for a few minuites it would help. People look up to these speakers. Kevin is worried about this, why was he not out spreading the word at macna. I think Julian warned people a year ago on the dangers of this and as far as I know, is the only one I heard of that did much.. There was more in coral magazine on this than anywhere telling the ramifications if this happens. I remember years ago attending round tables on this stuff at imac. Why are these round tables not happening by the major players in this hobby now? The hobbyst need to be responsable too...

I believe this also affect other countries.

The thing is the hobby does not take this seriously and I think this is what Scott is talking about.. I started posting on this when it was something like 60 corals listed.. Most of those threads died with a few posts saying it will never happen.

Basically when I first got in the hobby our live rock came from Florida and Hawaii.. Hawaii closed collecting of rock but that was ok we still had keys rock.. When that got closed we thought the hobby was over. But then came rock from all around the globe which was even better. So far most bans on the hobby have been area bans which have not affected the hobby much. Why because other areas open up.. This has made people passive in the hobby..

Well this is the real first ban on a species and this is far more dangerous. This makes them illegal to own. This gives these activists a new way to shut us down.

I am for protecting and regulating something that seriously need to be..

 

[Diesel]

• For those of you who are in various facebook groups, forums such as these lead by example. Show your groups that you donated, let people know how serious you take this. If each of us donated just $25.00 the price of a small Zoanthid mixed rock then we could raise MILLIONS in our defense.
  
  It starts with ME and now it's YOUR turn ... Show your people you donated and lead by example!
  
  Contributor:
  Donations Coordinator:
  
  Justin Leoni
  Killen, AL 35645
  United States
  Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council
  
  This Payment will appear on your credit card statement as "PayPal *PETINDUSTRY"
  
  Confirmation Number: 6YU49158706534708 Placed on Sep 5, 2014
  Purpose Donation amount
  PIJAC Marine Ornamental Defense Fund
  Reference: Marine
  
  

Confirmation number: 71W40664819838703
Donation amount: $26.00 USD
Total: $26.00 USD
Purpose: PIJAC Marine Ornamental Defense Fund
Reference: Marine
Contributor: ben VanderNoort

 

[that Reef Guy]

I was told that around the time of MACNA (I think the Exact Date wat August 27th but I could be off) that wholesalers had 30 Days to bring in Branching Frogspawn and then they would be banned from being taken from the wild.

Is this True?

Will Branching Frogspawn and the other 21 Corals be Banned From Entering the US on September 27th?

I was told that some Wholesalers have already been Threatened by Authorities.

Are we going to see the most commonly imported coral not in LFS's anymore?

Also, they do not want us to take out Corals from the Ocean but I have heard Reports from Scientists that there will be Absolutly No Coral in the Ocean by as Early as 2030 due to Rising Water Temperatures.

If that is true you think that they would be begging us to take stuff out of the Ocean because it is all going to Die Anyways.

Hobbyists will be the Ones that Save the Coral Not Destroy It.

This makes No Sense!

 

[shred5]

I was told that around the time of MACNA (I think the Exact Date wat August 27th but I could be off) that wholesalers had 30 Days to bring in Branching Frogspawn and then they would be banned from being taken from the wild.

Is this True?

Will Branching Frogspawn and the other 21 Corals be Banned From Entering the US on September 27th?

I was told that some Wholesalers have already been Threatened by Authorities.

Are we going to see the most commonly imported coral not in LFS's anymore?

Also, they do not want us to take out Corals from the Ocean but I have heard Reports from Scientists that there will be Absolutly No Coral in the Ocean by as Early as 2030 due to Rising Water Temperatures.

If that is true you think that they would be begging us to take stuff out of the Ocean because it is all going to Die Anyways.

Hobbyists will be the Ones that Save the Coral Not Destroy It.

This makes No Sense!

I cant comment on the first thing..

Putting corals back in areas where corals are dead to one reason or another from reef hobby is not likely. Reason is we keep to many corals together from too many parts of the world... It would be to easy to introduce something foreign or a pathogen into a area that has no resistance to it killing more corals or fish..
I think this is the reason sometimes we have so many unexplained deaths with corals and fish in our tanks is mixing them together from different areas..


Rising water temps wont kill the reefs. They are finding more new reefs farther north now than ever before. Diversity of corals might be less.

I have been diving in quarry's as far north as Wisconsin that have dead coral in them, so coral must have been this far north at one time or another..

What actually has a better chance of killing reefs and corals in my opinion is the ph change we are seeing due to carbon dioxide.
Question is how fast and how many corals can adapt to this change in ph .. Another thing is as the polar caps melt it will lower salitinty of the oceans some, another thing corals have to adapt too..

 

[shred5]

New endangered coral ruling threatens your right to grow corals

That reef guy this might also answer your question along with others.

Also Len they do talk about species ban...

 

[jleoni]

Shred,

Your point is quiet valid which is why i have for quiet some time now thought if we can create dips and research that and do this, wouldnt it be wise to have scientists study and come up with ways of killing such bacteria and pathogens thus allowing for a reverse supply chain allowing those of us who truly love this hobby to help save ALL OF HUMANITY. After all without reefs the sea would die, if the sea dies according to the doom and gloom global warming activists we all eventually die. So why not figure out how we can actually GIVE a frag BACK to the wild.

 

[shred5]

Shred,

Your point is quiet valid which is why i have for quiet some time now thought if we can create dips and research that and do this, wouldnt it be wise to have scientists study and come up with ways of killing such bacteria and pathogens thus allowing for a reverse supply chain allowing those of us who truly love this hobby to help save ALL OF HUMANITY. After all without reefs the sea would die, if the sea dies according to the doom and gloom global warming activists we all eventually die. So why not figure out how we can actually GIVE a frag BACK to the wild.

Well lets hope it Never gets to this point...

 

[Kworker]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/04/clownfish-endangered_n_5760702.html?utm_hp_ref=green

My blood is boiling, people who have no idea what they are talking about are writing articles and they are using statistics from 2005 against us.

 

[shred5]

An Ode To The Faithful Clownfish, Which May Soon Be Listed As Endangered

My blood is boiling, people who have no idea what they are talking about are writing articles and they are using statistics from 2005 against us.

The guy has no idea what he is talking about.. Most of the clowns in the hobby are tank bred and raised. If it were not for the hobby little would even be know about the Breeding of many marine species of fish and invertebrates.

Honestly even though stupid it would not impact the hobby much.. We are set up just fine on them.. If they put them on the endanger species list well that would be different because it could make them illigal to own, sell or breed.
There is a place for comments below that article.

 

[uniquecorals]

The guy has no idea what he is talking about.. Most of the clowns in the hobby are tank bred and raised. If it were not for the hobby little would even be know about the Breeding of many marine species of fish and invertebrates.

Honestly even though stupid it would not impact the hobby much.. We are set up just fine on them.. If they put them on the endanger species list well that would be different because it could make them illigal to own, sell or breed.
There is a place for comments below that article.

That's what I meant about a louder voice being the one of the ill-informed, agenda-driven people who want to kill the hobby...We need to be better, more accurate, and LOUDER!

 

[BfishLpond78]

Who has the ability to lead such a team? Who in the reefing community is well respected and not driven by the all mighty $$$?

If this person presents themselves I'm sure the reef community will back them up with whatever is needed.

Using clownfish just goes to show zero research has gone into this and that they left Finding Nemo on a loop to keep their children happy and all they hear is clown fish clown fish....

Sickening...