BANNED! But Is There Still Hope?

[Sunny Goold]

I just came across this presentation from Macna 2014 where much of what we are discussing here was spoken on by Dr @Julian Sprung (no surprise there).
Some important things he raised - that are pertinent to the conversation are:

1 - Some bureaucrats are trying to bring legislation through the Endangered Species Act that would result in it being illegal to keep some animals - including maricultured animals. That includes (Amphiprion percula) clown fish! (the process for determining this is not scientific - it's just a panel of 5 that rates how likely it is that a species becomes extinct and they are even saying "because of climate change".

Yes - it may become illegal for Americans to even keep and trade common species, even maricultured animals like clown fish and acropora (based on them determining a species of acropora is threatened and authorities not being able to determine which species it is so all acropora can be subject).

2 - There is already an organisation who has some success fighting for our hobby that they are not getting much support.

It's called http://www.pijac.org/ADF - you can also donate there specifically for the Aquatics Defense Fund (Donate button top right).

They are also on Facebook. I'd love to know which companies in the hobby support them (I couldn't find it on the webpage).

I'd love companies to start advertising if they support this org so we can support them. I'm definitely going to factor this in.

As the US President selects the head of NOAA this issue may be in the back of many people's minds but I think this means the States have become more active (with more pressure on them from people who want to shut down our hobby). I think this may be a factor in Hawaii's legislation (they had tried before on several issues as mentioned in the discussion).

Watch the video - It means many of our comments, including mine, are off the mark and importantly it means that our hobby is in a much more precarious position than the article makes out.

Anyhow here it is:

 

[Rispa]

I just came across this presentation from Macna 2014 where much of what we are discussing here was spoken on by Dr @Julian Sprung (no surprise there).
Some important things he raised - that are pertinent to the conversation are:

1 - Some bureaucrats are trying to bring legislation through the Endangered Species Act that would result in it being illegal to keep some animals - including maricultured animals. That includes (Amphiprion percula) clown fish! (the process for determining this is not scientific - it's just a panel of 5 that rates how likely it is that a species becomes extinct and they are even saying "because of climate change".

Yes - it may become illegal for Americans to even keep and trade common species, even maricultured animals like clown fish and acropora (based on them determining a species of acropora is threatened and authorities not being able to determine which species it is so all acropora can be subject).

2 - There is already an organisation who has some success fighting for our hobby that they are not getting much support.

It's called http://www.pijac.org/ADF - you can also donate there specifically for the Aquatics Defense Fund (Donate button top right).

They are also on Facebook. I'd love to know which companies in the hobby support them (I couldn't find it on the webpage).

I'd love companies to start advertising if they support this org so we can support them. I'm definitely going to factor this in.

As the US President selects the head of NOAA this issue may be in the back of many people's minds but I think this means the States have become more active (with more pressure on them from people who want to shut down our hobby). I think this may be a factor in Hawaii's legislation (they had tried before on several issues as mentioned in the discussion).

Watch the video - It means many of our comments, including mine, are off the mark and importantly it means that our hobby is in a much more precarious position than the article makes out.

Anyhow here it is:

Welcome to the stupidity that is already seriously affection the bird industry. Even if they are being sustainably bred locally they are still affected.

 

[Sunny Goold]

Welcome to the stupidity that is already seriously affection the bird industry. Even if they are being sustainably bred locally they are still affected.

Yep - and it has been said before when someone spoke about banning shooting endangered animals bred for that purpose on farms (like in Texas). Just ridiculous because it puts those animals in worse danger.
But this is much worse because they have no scientific evidence and these corals are certainly not rare - they are not threatened or endangered in the way these laws are designed to protect Tigers for example. These corals are everywhere - super common and trying to ban clown fish just shows you how insane this is.
One of the panel said he was disappointed that very few in the industry support this.
It demonstrates how on a knifes edge the hobby is. I highly doubt it would happen under Trump but it could happen that one day the hobby is effectively banned nationwide or in a certain state.
I'm in Europe and am not worried about it happening here. The US is so strange politically. Still that the majority of the industry who's businesses rely on it seem totally disinterested is just insane. If the US goes it's not going to be good for the rest of the hobby.

 

[Peng]

very sad. without Indonesia corals like walt disney and homewrecker would have never come to the hobby

 

[Reefer40b]

Its been an minute, anyone know anybody over there that could possibly give us an update on this? ...

 

[reefwiser]

There will be discussions at MACNA this year on the current bans. Will update everyone when I get back.

 

[oddomatic]

Great perspective. Thanks Mike.

 

[oddomatic]

I just came across this presentation from Macna 2014 where much of what we are discussing here was spoken on by Dr @Julian Sprung (no surprise there).
Some important things he raised - that are pertinent to the conversation are:

1 - Some bureaucrats are trying to bring legislation through the Endangered Species Act that would result in it being illegal to keep some animals - including maricultured animals. That includes (Amphiprion percula) clown fish! (the process for determining this is not scientific - it's just a panel of 5 that rates how likely it is that a species becomes extinct and they are even saying "because of climate change".

Yes - it may become illegal for Americans to even keep and trade common species, even maricultured animals like clown fish and acropora (based on them determining a species of acropora is threatened and authorities not being able to determine which species it is so all acropora can be subject).

2 - There is already an organisation who has some success fighting for our hobby that they are not getting much support.

It's called http://www.pijac.org/ADF - you can also donate there specifically for the Aquatics Defense Fund (Donate button top right).

They are also on Facebook. I'd love to know which companies in the hobby support them (I couldn't find it on the webpage).

I'd love companies to start advertising if they support this org so we can support them. I'm definitely going to factor this in.

As the US President selects the head of NOAA this issue may be in the back of many people's minds but I think this means the States have become more active (with more pressure on them from people who want to shut down our hobby). I think this may be a factor in Hawaii's legislation (they had tried before on several issues as mentioned in the discussion).

Watch the video - It means many of our comments, including mine, are off the mark and importantly it means that our hobby is in a much more precarious position than the article makes out.

Anyhow here it is:

Good info. TY

 

[Reefer40b]

Update anyone? any insider info from those in direct contact with suppliers?

 

[marlinmon]

Why can't they ban cyano and dinos?

 

[shred5]

Update anyone? any insider info from those in direct contact with suppliers?

Follow Dr Mac thread he is keeping everyone up to date.
So far not open. No one knows if it will be either.

 

[Muttley000]

Follow Dr Mac thread he is keeping everyone up to date.
So far not open. No one knows if it will be either.

He unfortunatly had thread closed due to people dragging it off track

 

[shred5]

He unfortunatly had thread closed due to people dragging it off track

He has it opened and closed as need be...

When he gets new info he has it opened.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

very sad. without Indonesia corals like walt disney and homewrecker would have never come to the hobby

Nevermind thoes two, the all corals coming out of indo were better than they have ever been in my opinion. There was so much nice stuff being collected and maricultured it really sucks its not up and running yet. I really hope everyone who has corals from this area they like and haven't seen anywhere will do the best they can to propagate them and share them with others! I just wish the culture sites in tonga would step it up.

 

[Reefbuds]

If 50% of the GBR is lost. Shut everything down. We as hobbyists will survive. We can frag and breed. I feel as tho the only reefs left in our lifetime will be in our homes. I don't even think the extinction of reefs will be enough to stop the global disease. People are too greedy, it's over man.
Everyone on here talks as if nothing is going on, but it really is. Just because WE are not impacting reefs doesn't mean they are not being impacted.
Reefs are being decimated right now and in years to come you will be surprised just how fast it happens. You think an Alk swing is bad in your reef, wait until the ocean is a couple degrees higher.
We should be focused on mariculture and aquaculture, and breeding, this WILL be the future of our hobby.
I do hope there are others that see this and agree.. I really do.

 

[shred5]

If 50% of the GBR is lost. Shut everything down. We as hobbyists will survive. We can frag and breed. I feel as tho the only reefs left in our lifetime will be in our homes. I don't even think the extinction of reefs will be enough to stop the global disease. People are too greedy, it's over man.
Everyone on here talks as if nothing is going on, but it really is. Just because WE are not impacting reefs doesn't mean they are not being impacted.
Reefs are being decimated right now and in years to come you will be surprised just how fast it happens. You think an Alk swing is bad in your reef, wait until the ocean is a couple degrees higher.
We should be focused on mariculture and aquaculture, and breeding, this WILL be the future of our hobby.
I do hope there are others that see this and agree.. I really do.

https://www.iflscience.com/environm...eef-is-showing-significant-signs-of-recovery/

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/national/great-barrier-reef-showing-signs-of-recovery-20180909

 

[sde1500]

Haven't followed all of this very closely, but this ban includes even maricultured sites? So Golden Marindo can't export anymore?

 

[shred5]

Haven't followed all of this very closely, but this ban includes even maricultured sites? So Golden Marindo can't export anymore?

Fish as far as I know are still allowed so they should still be shipping fish.
They would not be doing coral, most inverts or rock.
Someone said they heard fish were no longer allowed but I have not confirmed it with anyone.
If fish are not it they far behind anyway.
I think by the end of next year Australia will stop exporting or severely limit shipment due to pressure.
I predict in two years this hobby will have shrunk massively but mainly because few fish will be available.

I do not get the bans on maricultured both in Indonesia and Fiji which proves this is just a vendetta against the hobby.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

Every single person who has walked into my home is immediately drawn to the aquarium. Every. Single. One. You simply CANNOT say that for educational videos on reefs. The conversation always begins with amazement and ends with respect. Amazement for the corals, fish, colors, symbiosis, and respect for the complexity and fragility. I've had a few house parties and family and friends over and every single conversation began and ended like that. Living in CO (from CA), not a lot of the people around here have ever seen a coral reef -- this is their first time aside from our kinda lame public aquarium. So this shows them these things are real, in danger, and incredibly fragile.

Does the collection of species in the wild have an outweighing negative impact? I personally disagree, though I have no data to back that. I just know the people that I've had the opportunity to educate will be better at our beaches, more careful of their habits in sensitive areas, etc.

IMO our problems are pollution and unsustainable commercial fishing, not aquarium collection. I fail to understand how collection impacts the planet. I believe there's a YT video on how Hawaii fisheries are growing in numbers despite collection (before the ban)... how do you ban in the face of documented facts contrary to your initiative?

There are scientists doing *exactly* what mariculture companies are doing to reseed reefs... yet these are banned? It's illogical. Take away the corals and fish from the wild for us yet also ban our sustainable efforts? This helps no-one, really it harms our progress as a whole.

Certainly I agree the mortality rate in this hobby is unacceptable -- but that's an internal problem to be fixed with education and the hope that, one day, our LFS's will act out of responsibility.

 

[Muttley000]

Every single person who has walked into my home is immediately drawn to the aquarium. Every. Single. One. You simply CANNOT say that for educational videos on reefs. The conversation always begins with amazement and ends with respect. Amazement for the corals, fish, colors, symbiosis, and respect for the complexity and fragility. I've had a few house parties and family and friends over and every single conversation began and ended like that. Living in CO (from CA), not a lot of the people around here have ever seen a coral reef -- this is their first time aside from our kinda lame public aquarium. So this shows them these things are real, in danger, and incredibly fragile.

Does the collection of species in the wild have an outweighing negative impact? I personally disagree, though I have no data to back that. I just know the people that I've had the opportunity to educate will be better at our beaches, more careful of their habits in sensitive areas, etc.

IMO our problems are pollution and unsustainable commercial fishing, not aquarium collection. I fail to understand how collection impacts the planet. I believe there's a YT video on how Hawaii fisheries are growing in numbers despite collection (before the ban)... how do you ban in the face of documented facts contrary to your initiative?

There are scientists doing *exactly* what mariculture companies are doing to reseed reefs... yet these are banned? It's illogical. Take away the corals and fish from the wild for us yet also ban our sustainable efforts? This helps no-one, really it harms our progress as a whole.

Certainly I agree the mortality rate in this hobby is unacceptable -- but that's an internal problem to be fixed with education and the hope that, one day, our LFS's will act out of responsibility.

People will not care about saving what they do not know. Your observations match mine when people look at the tank. Appreciate your thoughtful perspective!