Are water changes over rated?

[schooncw]

None of those corals look like they are 8 years old or even 4 years old.................jus sayin

I also don't see any Sps or hard to keep type corals and many look like frags or recent purchases.

.....and very, very little bioload

 

[VintageReefer]

.....and very, very little bioload

Does not matter, have had low and high bio load, the scrubber is adjustable and well within spec for my tank and feeding levels. Camera shy fish doesn’t mean there are no fish. Also do multiple broadcast and target feedings a week for all the corals. More fish just = more coral food in the water

Currently have
Tomini tang


Yellow chromis / lemon damsel


Purple fire fish


Yellow wrasse


Also a school of 3 cardinals, but after 2 years one decided to start flexing and be dominant and was picking on the other two, and one of the others started nipping euphyllia. All 3 were moved to qt where the currently are. I am planning on moving one back in the display soon.

And will be purchasing some anthias soon also

I will say this - I am well within the limits of my system and fully understand the limits of my system and if one wants to achieve no water changes they must stay within those limits and not overstock

When this was a sps mixed reef I had
Full grown sebae mono
Black clownfish
4 chromis
M + 2F lyretail anthia

So that was 9 fish and the mono was a larger, tang size


I have not pushed past 9 fish in a 75g without water changes but had no issues with that bio load and growing stony corals from nubs and sticks to colonies

 

[Reefer Matt]

I wonder how many Reefers adjust the ph and alkalinity of their new saltwater before changing it? Or use the salt mix that matches the tank? It could explain those swings that happen. I could change 100% of the water in my tanks with no issues.

 

[areefer01]

I wonder how many Reefers adjust the ph and alkalinity of their new saltwater before changing it? Or use the salt mix that matches the tank? It could explain those swings that happen. I could change 100% of the water in my tanks with no issues.

I don't speak for everyone but I know in my use case I keep my basic water chemistry to that of what my salt mix is. This way should an emergency happen (earthquake, flood, Godzilla, equipment failure, hobbyist error) it is one less thing I have to be concerned with.

I don't know which would be the greater shock to the animals or if it would matter but to me this made sense so I stick with it. I'm also not pushing the razors edge to maximize coral growth. It is time based which I'm comfortable with.

 

[fish farmer]

I wonder how many Reefers adjust the ph and alkalinity of their new saltwater before changing it? Or use the salt mix that matches the tank? It could explain those swings that happen. I could change 100% of the water in my tanks with no issues.

That's a great question.

What are the "acceptable" swings?

I match temp and salinity and generally do a 10 to 15 percent WC at ant given time on a softy/LPS tank. The only immediate stress I'll see is if my salinity is way off.

I figure I've opened mail shipped corals and done relatively quick acclimation to my water chemistry with only temp/salinity and they generally do fine. But I don't keep SPS.

 

[Troylee]

I wonder how many Reefers adjust the ph and alkalinity of their new saltwater before changing it? Or use the salt mix that matches the tank? It could explain those swings that happen. I could change 100% of the water in my tanks with no issues.

Not me.. I do a 40% change with just a close temp and same salinity.. the rest is what ever it is haha! Never had a problem myself.

 

[Sneaks]

I'm running ozone to remove coral toxins, next upgrade is UV so will be running both. Ozone for toxins and water clarity, UV for parasites. Had ich/velvet a few months back and lost some fish.

 

[darrick001]

I did 25% water changes for probably 10 years then switched to auto water changes for another 5. In 2015 I started using the Triton system. Everything was going good. Coral contiued to grow. In 2016 or 17 I removed my skimner and all mechanical filtration in hopes of creating a tank that would simulate the ocean. A 210 gallon refugium was added half semi cryptic with lower flow and the other half with intense lighting and high flow. For the first month it worked great. Over the next few months the algae In the refugium stopped growing. On the flip side the display was rapidly being overtaken with GHA. I almost gave up and went back to a traditional system. An ICP test was sent in and it showed that the algae In The refugium had used up all the minerals it needed to grow. After adding the minerals the refugium took off and all the GHA died within 6 months. Since that time there has been only 1 accidental water change on that system. I messed up programming my ato on my apex and the float switch became stuck. It ran for 8 hours before it was discovered. Thankfully it was in the basement and with a 710 gallon system volume the Salinity only dropped to 1.019. In my opinion water changes are needed unless you have a way of adding minerals back into the system. I would say an ICP test is one of the most important tools we have at our disposal. I know they are a little expensive but they take all the guess work out of your water parameters. You know exactly what is in your water. They are probably cheaper than guessing and throwing differnt

 

[darrick001]

Continuation from my last post. IPC tests are probably cheaper than Throwing differnt Things at it. Buying a new test kit incase yours is to old. I've wasted 100s of dollars throwing things at problems over the years. I will never go back to doing water changes but I also wouldn't just wing it hoping the water parameters are at the right levels.

 

[areefer01]

Continuation from my last post. IPC tests are probably cheaper than Throwing differnt Things at it. Buying a new test kit incase yours is to old. I've wasted 100s of dollars throwing things at problems over the years. I will never go back to doing water changes but I also wouldn't just wing it hoping the water parameters are at the right levels.

It would depend at what rate the hobbyist is submitting them and the brand.

Edit: I do agree with your comment about randomly throwing things though before understanding the problem or if there really is one. Some changes may adversely affect the whole tank when all you wanted to do was try and save one coral....sometimes it is better to let the one go for the greater good of the system. Two and three or four - I get it. One - no.

 

[darrick001]

It would depend at what rate the hobbyist is submitting them and the brand.

That is true but if it's because something is wrong it shouldn't be more than 1-2x a year. After the first year I only did 2 test a year and only needed a few additional minerals added each time. It actually cost me less than buying the test kits to do the testing myself.

 

[clownnut]

if you can balance everything on a thread and never mass up, no water change is fine.
water change, just keep all the impurities low, so you can make mistakes.

 

[areefer01]

That is true but if it's because something is wrong it shouldn't be more than 1-2x a year. After the first year I only did 2 test a year and only needed a few additional minerals added each time. It actually cost me less than buying the test kits to do the testing myself.

Valid - and I agree. Of course we are assuming that ICP vendors are doing their jobs correctly, hobbyist collect the water sample consistently, nothing lost in transportation, and so forth. But yes - one or two a year is a lot cheaper than say a additive based program that recommends monthly.

Hope your day is well.

 

[darrick001]

I do add minerals daily and the cost is comparable to water changes. I don't want any confusion. This is not a way to save money. The cost will be about the same, if you figure everything in. I Hope you have a great day to.

 

[GARRIGA]

I did 25% water changes for probably 10 years then switched to auto water changes for another 5. In 2015 I started using the Triton system. Everything was going good. Coral contiued to grow. In 2016 or 17 I removed my skimner and all mechanical filtration in hopes of creating a tank that would simulate the ocean. A 210 gallon refugium was added half semi cryptic with lower flow and the other half with intense lighting and high flow. For the first month it worked great. Over the next few months the algae In the refugium stopped growing. On the flip side the display was rapidly being overtaken with GHA. I almost gave up and went back to a traditional system. An ICP test was sent in and it showed that the algae In The refugium had used up all the minerals it needed to grow. After adding the minerals the refugium took off and all the GHA died within 6 months. Since that time there has been only 1 accidental water change on that system. I messed up programming my ato on my apex and the float switch became stuck. It ran for 8 hours before it was discovered. Thankfully it was in the basement and with a 710 gallon system volume the Salinity only dropped to 1.019. In my opinion water changes are needed unless you have a way of adding minerals back into the system. I would say an ICP test is one of the most important tools we have at our disposal. I know they are a little expensive but they take all the guess work out of your water parameters. You know exactly what is in your water. They are probably cheaper than guessing and throwing differnt

Did you notice any Ph benefits from the large lit refugium? I'd expect a large reduction in CO2 from the utilization by the Fuge along with eliminating the CO2 introduced by the prior skimmer now absent.

 

[darrick001]

You are correct. Ph runs 8.3-8.45

 

[darrick001]

The orp also raised it runs at 450-460

 

[GARRIGA]

The orp also raised it runs at 450-460

Wasn't expecting that.

 

[darrick001]

if you can balance everything on a thread and never mass up, no water change is fine.
water change, just keep all the impurities low, so you can make mistakes.

That's the thing I don't feel like I'm balancing on a thread. I'm less worried about that than I have ever been. There have been mistakes made. The programming issue, my wife and I both accidentally dropped 1/2 a can on pellets into the tank at different times. My auto feeder dumped way to much food in while i was on vacation. Yes I had an algae bloom but it didn't last long and everything was back to normal pretty quickly. I know my setup is uncommon, but IMHO it's the best I have ever had. It's also the most low maintenance. Unfortunately it's being taken down. A miniature version is now running at our new location. I didn't think about this as a wc but 3-500 ml is removed daily right before 3-500 ml of iso phytoplankton is added. So I guess that makes a 3- 4 gallon wc per month.

 

[VintageReefer]

I don’t feel like I’m balancing on any threads either. Nutrient / parameter wise the system is self sustaining. I spilled food in once and spiked phosphate from .02 to .34. In 6 days the tank naturally was back to .02 with no water change or intervention from me. It could have been back even sooner, I wasn’t actively testing. No algae outbreaks or impact to my corals. My scrubber just grew algae faster that week

Alk/ca - I have found my routine of all for reef and I add it to my top off water and dump it in weekly. Over the course of a week I slowly drop a point and then I bring it back up and repeat the cycle. If needed I could divide this up to twice a week but I have not experienced any issue with this. Over time something gradually becomes off. Usually alk. And I need to do a manual correction with baking soda, from the addition of new corals or from corals growing and becoming larger. Then I tweak the amount of all for reef and go back to normal routine

Trace elements - I admit I’m rolling the dice here, and putting my faith in the all for reef product, which also replenishes trace elements. Is it replenishing more than I need? Less? Who knows. I assume that with several years of no water changes an issue would have shown up. Maybe the “mineral rich refugite” in my sump is helping.

My scrubber is stabilizing and increasing ph naturally and adding amino acids, glucose, oxygen, and some vitamins.

Between the scrubber and all for reef, everything is being managed and I really feel this is the most stable and predictable tank I’ve ever kept.

I have a shelf around 300 par and can’t really put anything on it. For the heck of it I bought a few basic hard corals to see how they do, and they were open on day one and have remained open and colorful. I might have to get some more sticks in the future