Are water changes over rated?

[Garf]

It amazes me why a lot of "zero water change folk" have massive skimmers and really fantastic saltwater mixing stations, lol.

 

[areefer01]

ATI, Triton, and RMM (reef moonshiner method) are all similar "methods". depending where you stand is what will dictate if its worth it or not for you. upfront costs for sure outweigh buying salt, and as intimidating it could seem, its actually ridiculously easy to follow. but as explained by @JNalley, WC's superficially restore certain elements but not at the amounts desired in most cases to keep levels "in line with consumption". this is more of the reason i chose to not do WC's.

Ignoring the water change vs no water change (it is a personal preference) some of the argument falls on marketing, market speak, and a pinch of fear mongering. Restore, consumption, supplement, provide, and more. How do they come up with the numbers or which element is valid. How much is too much and how little is not enough.

Not knocking either as it isn't my jam but one could see it as a leap of faith after reading something or a product label.

 

[Superlightman]

Agreed… find a tank of the month that doesn’t change water……………..

Well than check the tanks from Glenn from the DSR method he never did water change since years and his results and growth are stunning. Beliefs vs facts! Triton also have many nice tanks that never seeing a water change

 

[Northern Flicker]

Well than check the tanks from Glenn from the DSR method he never did water change since years and his results and growth are stunning. Beliefs vs facts! Triton also have many nice tanks that never seeing a water change

Agreed, but I think many of us do waterchanges so we don't need to tinker with these methods. It's almost like, ironically (compared to the comments in this thread), water changes are the lower tech lazier path to success.

 

[Sneaks]

I wanted to moonshiners route but couldn't find a UK supplier. Use ICP tests through reef zlements and use their trace supplements to match recommended levels through manual dosing. Setting alk/calc/mag/NOPOX up through my doser. I stopped doing as many water changes but still sython sand bed into a filter and back into sump. Keep the nutrients but remove detritus. Working for me currently, 2.5 years into the hobby, everybody finds their own way

 

[VintageReefer]

I’m zero water change and zero skimmer and have never had a saltwater mixing station, I never had a icp.

I can’t keep most acans alive lol maybe I am missing something

 

[shakacuz]

I’m zero water change and zero skimmer and have never had a saltwater mixing station, I never had a icp.

I can’t keep most acans alive lol maybe I am missing something

there will be someone who will go as far as to say water changes are what will allow you to keep acans alive

 

[Troylee]

there will be someone who will go as far as to say water changes are what will allow you to keep acans alive

Idk about that! I’ve lost tons of acans and I do water changes… my tanks just aren’t set up for them.. I’m high lighting and high flow! I have a single colony right now under a cliff that seems to do okay.. the rest are gone.. #longliv#longlivethesticks

 

[VintageReefer]

there will be someone who will go as far as to say water changes are what will allow you to keep acans alive

I’ll trade acans for the time I save on maintenance haha

Seriously. I just can’t keep them. Start off awesome and over 3-6 months I lose them 1 by 1. I feed them too. I have one colony left that looks meh and I keep trying different placements and I try leaving it completely alone. Oh well. Will just avoid and get other things.

Like the new jawbreaker I got today

 

[areefer01]

Well than check the tanks from Glenn from the DSR method he never did water change since years and his results and growth are stunning. Beliefs vs facts! Triton also have many nice tanks that never seeing a water change

How much of that is DSR vs. the hobbyist skill? Glenn also builds some of his own displays. It is not to say that DSR doesn't work but one must also factor in skill level.

Also some of the displays saying look no water change are mostly frags and not 5, 10, 15, or more years old. Same can be true of those performing water changes. Point being this hobby has a pretty short life span for many who throw in the towel before 18 months has passed. I view this whole no water change similar to those saying they don't do return pump or power head maintenance and/or cleaning.

On the other hand there is something to be said about the waste hobbyist face when making RODI water. That is a pretty big negative aspect for those performing water changes. Especially for which those in the location of a drought cycle.

TL; DR - one shouldn't assume the method used leads anyone to success. We cannot, or should not, overlook the hobbyist skill level.

 

[Troylee]

I’ll trade acans for the time I save on maintenance haha

Seriously. I just can’t keep them. Start off awesome and over 3-6 months I lose them 1 by 1. I feed them too. I have one colony left that looks meh and I keep trying different placements and I try leaving it completely alone. Oh well. Will just avoid and get other things.

Like the new jawbreaker I got today

I do water changes Started with one a few months ago.. up to 6 lol…. Just do what works for you I’d say! I believe in water changes!

 

[Big E]

Every tank I’ve managed over 24 years has no water changes in mind. My only failure was one of my first tanks that had a 6/7” dsb, and even that lasted 6+ Years

This tank was setup 8 years ago. There hasn’t been a water change in at least 4 years

None of those corals look like they are 8 years old or even 4 years old.................jus sayin

I also don't see any Sps or hard to keep type corals and many look like frags or recent purchases.

 

[VintageReefer]

None of those corals look like they are 8 years old or even 4 years old.................jus sayin

I also don't see any Sps or hard to keep type corals and many look like frags or recent purchases.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, none of them are 8 years old or even close. I said the tanks been setup for 8 years, and there hasn’t been a water change in 4 years. I didn’t mention the corals, but a few are 3 years old and couple more are 2 and the rest are less than two. The dragon soul started as a single head in late 2020, and the scoly was 2021 and they are very slow growers. The palys are old also, and the lakers scroll coral.

This was the last setup I had using the same rock and sand and water. I had this running for several years using same methods and I grew everything from small frags. I have limited pics on this phone but I do have some. No water changes, did use a skimmer and my scrubber, very very small clean up crew, reef energy ab+

Due to having kids and career change I didn’t want to maintain Calc and alk so closely and changed directions and converted to a lps reef

 

[Acroguy]

Yes, they are absolutely needed especially when keeping sps.There are a million things you cant measure in the water.I can see that sps are unhappy when I go more than 2-4 weeks whitout waterchanges.Even snails spawn when doing regular waterchanges when going longer without they stop.After a waterchange everything looks happier fleshier. Also the nicest corals I ve had was when I set up my system with fresh saltwater.Nitrate and phosphate is not everything in a reef tank.Of corse if you strip the water of nutrients its going to be bad but waterchanges are not to blame.

 

[Doctorgori]

I’d be interested in locating all those tank crash threads that admitted they didn’t do water changes, and it was the cause


Kinda reminds me of that Bugs Bunny cartoon where he used a hammer to test bombs for duds

Disclaimer: admittedly I hate water changes

 

[GARRIGA]

My understanding for those that ICP to balance ions that the final frontier lies in removing the unknown such as remnants from coral warfare. Why I’m going to experiment with Advance Oxidation Process as a means to resolve the unknown. How I will exactly implement it or not yet to be seen but will be based on extensive testing. Effectively seeking the same affect as if a 100% WC was conducted to eradicate undesirable especially since any WC only corrects the portion replaced and you still need to adjust for an imbalance left behind by that not changed. Only one way to find out.

 

[Doctorgori]

Why I’m going to experiment with Advance Oxidation as a means to resolve the unknown

“Advance Oxidation” ? Ozone?
Interesting, can you link or elaborate? TIA

 

[GARRIGA]

“Advance Oxidation” ? Ozone?
Interesting, can you link or elaborate? TIA

I've spent months researching that rabbit hole and still feel I'm not well verse enough to explain it fully but
I will be using UV-C to produce hydroxyl radicals with ozone and/or peroxide. Understanding being it oxidizes more effectively then with any of the three practices alone. Going to start with tap as I'm curious as to what it will remove for upcoming whole home filtration along with how to make RODI more effective and perhaps extend the life of certain components. Then add mollies and conduct several tests including in tank baths at 150 ppm peroxide vs doing dips assuming once UV-C is turned on it fully dissipates the peroxide first pass which will assist me in QT of large quantities of fish as I'm not playing with 10 gallons tanks. Convert these to salt and continue the same test slowly progressing to adding inverts including easy corals to see the affects of those in tank baths along with general use to cleanse the water. This includes testing how this affects several medications including copper treatment and dosing carbon. All test will be verified with ICP-MS along with hobby grade manual tests. Once I get all the components together I'm going to post a build and see how to link it into the testing and QT sections as I believe it could provide benefit in various areas. Worse case it fails and I know not to move forward with or perhaps the community suggests different ways to utilize and I can test that.

Assuming I can get peroxide to work using a controlled drip system then I might just avoid ozone to avoid having to solve OPO or the potential hazards should that go wrong plus peroxide much easier to tests with strips and found a lab that sells a probe although rather expensive. Absent that probe, need to figure a way to test for overdosed peroxide to shut that off and best I've found is low ORP. I'll test that as well as I'm hooking up a controller so I can monitor Ph and ORP then manual monitor all other parameters in between ICP tests including DO with an existing meter. There's a ton of literature as this has been done for decades in waste management but I haven't found much if any as applied to keeping lifein a box. Much of what we do derived from waste water management therefore thinking it's only for that just not how I'm going to approach it.

 

[Doctorgori]

@GARRIGA

you gonna post over in the experiment section eventually?

 

[GARRIGA]

@GARRIGA

you gonna post over in the experiment section eventually?

Yes. Need to figure out how to link that to my build.