1% Ivermectin (in-tank) Treatment for Coral Boring Spionid Worms

[Reefahholic]

Ug, sorry. Hope you can get this together.

It happens. I knew what I was getting into going in and fully understood the risks. Had been dreaming about it for months.

Honestly, I don’t have any regrets other than I thought for sure it killed all the Spionid worms (and it did), but unfortunately it only takes 1-2 to survive and that’s what happened. Took 14 days for them to pop their ugly little antennas out again. A few Limpets survived also.

My dip notes were inaccurate if anybody has them. Here’s the modified accurate note below. I did the math on 0.4 instead of .04 (1 drop). A drop is usually defined as .03-.05mL depending on the liquid/density so I did .04 (middle).

My dip equates to 32mL of Ivermectin to 100/G. So it’s more than double the 15mL to 100/G treatment I did.

The dose I’m currently using for the frags is 8-9 drops to 473mL which is 1/8 of a gallon or 1 pint.

So my dose is .32mL of 1% Ivermectin per gallon or roughly 8-9 drops per 473mL if my math is correct.

1 gallon = 3,785.41 approximately

If you divide 3785.41 by 8 = 473.17mL. Hence the 473mL volume I dip in.

If we count 1 drop as 0.04mL (middle of the road), and multiply that by 8….we get .32mL.

So my dose is .32 mL of 1% Ivermectin per gallon or 8-9 drops per 473mL if my math is correct.

This would equate to 32mL of 1% Ivermectin per 100/G water volume to kill them all dead in 1 hour. This is a crazy high dose.

 

[Dburr1014]

A dip, sure, but a whole tank? Then you have to question if the frag you dip is going to introduce Ivermectin into the system.

I did the dip method when switching tanks.
I used two vessels one with iron mactin and one as a rinse. The rinse also had GAC.
As I set up the new tank I also had GAC in the tank. After only a few days, I added some snails and didn't lose any.

Here is my write-up from the other thread;


Saturday I finished all my coral.
1.5ml per 12ish gallons.
First two soakings were 1 hour followed by 24 hour NSW soak with GAC.
First round was all good, second round I lost a couple frags. I blame it on not changing the water with all the die off. Some other colonies look great and some not so great. I think more sensitive coral have a harder time. I lost my BC bloodbank and Oregon tort and they were on the same rock as my walt disney. The Walt Disney is unaffected. All 3 coral were in my second round.
Better to do 1ml per 10 gallon, 1 hour soak, 1 hour NSW with GAC. Do all you intend in one day before worms start to deteriorate in your vessel. If not possible, change your water. It will get nasty.
As a dip in wondering when to add my fish, shrimp, hermits, snails, ect. How much can be in the display? I dipped, rinsed and added to 90 gallons and that also has GAC. It's been 2 days. The amount is at most 0.0000073 per gallon. That math is 2.5ml use in total divided by 90 gallons not including the NSW dip.
Shrimp will be the most effected by the toxicity. I did see a bumblebee snail already in the tank moving about. Somehow he got through.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Hmm

Would you mind sending me a PM with how one might procure Ivermectin and Interceptor?

Curious

Thank you in advance

 

[Reefahholic]

Hmm

Would you mind sending me a PM with how one might procure Ivermectin and Interceptor?

Curious

Thank you in advance

Interceptor is tricky to obtain. Usually need to get from a Veterinarian. There were a few places online, but all my links are bad now.

1% Ivermectin can be bought online or at local animal feed stores.

 

[Reefahholic]

Just turned the Carbon Reactor on. Will let that run all night while I’m waiting on the UV bulbs. Fingers crossed. Hopefully it doesn’t strip the system too clean.

Absolutely not doing anymore water changes. Only makes it worse. System is stressed enough as it is. I’ve already changed over 100% of the water anyway now.

 

[Vested]

Sorry to hear they survived, do you think just because of their boring nature they kinda just take shelter and pull in for who knows how long? I don't know for sure about ivermectin but I can confirm high doses of milbemycin oxime will linger. Carbon doesn't seem to remove it at all and I think it gets into the rocks, uv does seem to get rid of it however I don't know the strength needed or how long it takes to leach it all back into the water to hit the uv.

Whats your next steps? How much is left alive?

 

[Solo McReefer]

Interceptor is tricky to obtain. Usually need to get from a Veterinarian. There were a few places online, but all my links are bad now.

1% Ivermectin can be bought online or at local animal feed stores.

Luna has a Zoom doctor appointment tomorrow morning

Thank your ReefaHolic

And I am in deep sleep deprivation right now

 

[Reefahholic]

Sorry to hear they survived, do you think just because of their boring nature they kinda just take shelter and pull in for who knows how long? I don't know for sure about ivermectin but I can confirm high doses of milbemycin oxime will linger. Carbon doesn't seem to remove it at all and I think it gets into the rocks, uv does seem to get rid of it however I don't know the strength needed or how long it takes to leach it all back into the water to hit the uv.

Whats your next steps? How much is left alive?

I think they have a similar mechanism to that of a Vermetid snail. They pull in, but cannot escape the medication as well. A Vermetid has a better shelter or door that protects it.

Next steps are Carbon, UV, or maybe H2O2. All of which really aren’t good for pale stressed corals in an unstable system that’s barely hanging on. So it’s like walking a tight rope. Some corals are turning that grey color so I expect to loose 3-4 more Acro’s, and if I can’t get this lingering Ivermectin out, it could kill everything. I’m trying to research how to get it out before the whole system nukes. It’s really the devil. Nothing seems to help remove it and it’s not dissipating. When you do a water change, it seems to come back stronger.

As far was what died so far it’s been only 3 corals at this point. 1 acro, 1 Monti cap, and 1 Setosa. The Setosa was a new frag that wasn’t established so can’t really count that.

The GAC has been running for almost 4 hrs now with zero improvements.

Hopefully the UV tomorrow evening will help, but it may be too late. From the UV not working to my Metal Halide ballast going out…it’s been issue after issue.

 

[Vested]

I think they have a similar mechanism to that of a Vermetid snail. They pull in, but cannot escape the medication as well. A Vermetid has a better shelter or door that protects it.

Next steps are Carbon, UV, or maybe H2O2. All of which really aren’t good for pale stressed corals in an unstable system that’s barely hanging on. So it’s like walking a tight rope. Some corals are turning that grey color so I expect to loose 3-4 more Acro’s, and if I can’t get this lingering Ivermectin out, it could kill everything. I’m trying to research how to get it out before the whole system nukes. It’s really the devil. Nothing seems to help remove it and it’s not dissipating. When you do a water change, it seems to come back stronger.

As far was what died so far it’s been only 3 corals at this point. 1 acro, 1 Monti cap, and 1 Setosa. The Setosa was a new frag that wasn’t established so can’t really count that.

The GAC has been running for almost 4 hrs now with zero improvements.

Hopefully the UV tomorrow evening will help, but it may be too late. From the UV not working to my Metal Halide ballast going out…it’s been issue after issue.

Brutal man wishing you luck, I know the feeling. Worst case are you ok with completely resetting? Any colonies that are easily removable to transfer to a different tank? Wonder if an LFS would take the larger pieces and try to save them, you get frags (without worms) and replant?

 

[Dburr1014]

I think they have a similar mechanism to that of a Vermetid snail. They pull in, but cannot escape the medication as well. A Vermetid has a better shelter or door that protects it.

Next steps are Carbon, UV, or maybe H2O2. All of which really aren’t good for pale stressed corals in an unstable system that’s barely hanging on. So it’s like walking a tight rope. Some corals are turning that grey color so I expect to loose 3-4 more Acro’s, and if I can’t get this lingering Ivermectin out, it could kill everything. I’m trying to research how to get it out before the whole system nukes. It’s really the devil. Nothing seems to help remove it and it’s not dissipating. When you do a water change, it seems to come back stronger.

As far was what died so far it’s been only 3 corals at this point. 1 acro, 1 Monti cap, and 1 Setosa. The Setosa was a new frag that wasn’t established so can’t really count that.

The GAC has been running for almost 4 hrs now with zero improvements.

Hopefully the UV tomorrow evening will help, but it may be too late. From the UV not working to my Metal Halide ballast going out…it’s been issue after issue.

The GAC, you need to give a couple days then wait a couple more for the coral to respond.

I know the sinking feeling, been there done that. Just keep an eye on your nutrients, I think they will be okay. I would also dim the lights 10% or 15% if you haven't done that yet.

 

[Reefahholic]

Brutal man wishing you luck, I know the feeling. Worst case are you ok with completely resetting? Any colonies that are easily removable to transfer to a different tank? Wonder if an LFS would take the larger pieces and try to save them, you get frags (without worms) and replant?

Yeah, I could reset. I’ve really been wanting to do that anyway almost from the start. I have never been happy with this dry rock in my system. However, my wife and I built the scape and it took a lot of work so I kept it.

What I want to do is start out with live rock and Peg every single acro. That way, no matter what they get or no matter what happens…I can easily pull them. I can switch them. I can move them. I can dip them.

Most of these corals I can probably save, but I’m not going to want to look at some of them for 4 to 6 months while they’re completely brown. I will have to see what happens with how many brownout.

But yeah, I would definitely pull all the rock cut all the colonies off, mini colonies, and any frags that I’m able to save. Trash the rock. Then I would pull all the calcium reactor media and trash that. Fill everything up fresh. Run the system with Carbon, UV, and H2O2 for 1-2 weeks.

Then buy about 60 pounds of LR. Drill the peg holes, And then build some kind of a peg system similar to TSA or Coral Euphoria. Most likely with large 4” tiles so when the corals base I can keep most of the base but remove when needed.

Thomas Coral Fragz also has an interesting DIY plug that is a more vertical approach where the corals can base down instead of out. That may be another option. All of which I’d be able to remove.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Epoxy 3/8" acrylic rod about 1 inch in length to rock

Cut 3/8" silicone tubing to about 3/4"

Stick that over the acrylic rod

Stick frag plug into the silicone tubing "hole". Pull them later. Move them about

No need to drill unless you really want to drill

 

[Reefahholic]

The GAC, you need to give a couple days then wait a couple more for the coral to respond.

I know the sinking feeling, been there done that. Just keep an eye on your nutrients, I think they will be okay. I would also dim the lights 10% or 15% if you haven't done that yet.

I wish I wouldn’t have done the 20% water change. Pointless!

With that and no sign of improvement with the Carbon after almost 4 hrs…I just turned it off before I walked out the door for work. Too much instability for one day. I’ll turn it back on in the morning when I get home.

Ran 20K spectrum all day. Reduced Haldies from 4 hrs to 2.5 hrs.

UV hopefully tomorrow night.

 

[Reefahholic]

Epoxy 3/8" acrylic rod about 1 inch in length to rock

Cut 3/8" silicone tubing to about 3/4"

Stick that over the acrylic rod

Stick frag plug into the silicone tubing "hole". Pull them later. Move them about

No need to drill unless you really want to drill

Pegging all the Acro’s gets me excited. I’m too anal about pests, and it seems that almost nothing defeats Spionid worms unless it’s a dip.

We will see. Live rock and pegs are sounding really nice at this point with perfectly spaced mini colonies to start off with. I should be able to save the majority of my pieces now when I get the UV going. Hopefully that will remove the most of the Ivermectin. I’m also familiar with H2O2 dosing so we will give that a go. The GAC doesn’t seem to be very effective.

 

[Vested]

Awesome yep I did something similar with my latest tank, having the ability to pull acros out even when they are whole colonies for anything is extremely nice. Inspection, dipping, fragging, cleaning, etc. everything is easier.

I really hate the look of plugs and pegs etc, I used the super glue and sand technique to make perfect "plates" that are molded to the top of the rock areas where I mount coral. So basically the entire top of the scape is removable in different sections (super thin plates) with the acros encrusted onto them. Only downside to that Is I cant swap/move colonies that are encrusted to different areas because each plate is molded specifically for one location. But I can still do everything else and tank still looks like a display, if you're interested I can give u more details on how I did it at least.

 

[Reefahholic]

Awesome yep I did something similar with my latest tank, having the ability to pull acros out even when they are whole colonies for anything is extremely nice. Inspection, dipping, fragging, cleaning, etc. everything is easier.

I really hate the look of plugs and pegs etc, I used the super glue and sand technique to make perfect "plates" that are molded to the top of the rock areas where I mount coral. So basically the entire top of the scape is removable in different sections (super thin plates) with the acros encrusted onto them. Only downside to that Is I cant swap/move colonies that are encrusted to different areas because each plate is molded specifically for one location. But I can still do everything else and tank still looks like a display, if you're interested I can give u more details on how I did it at least.

Yeah for sure. Post a pic of that if you have one. If I do reset, I’ll be thinking of some good idea’s on exactly how I want to peg, but for sure every single acro will be pegged, and easily removed when needed.

Not sure I’d do the TSA PVC method without being able to hide the PVC, but I love the idea. Maybe something similar, but hidden.

This is also an interesting idea. Letting the coral base down instead of out. Not sure if they will grow the same or as fast, but I’m sure they would.

 

[JCOLE]

What I want to do is start out with live rock and Peg every single acro.

This is exactly what inspired my new build. I made shelves out of cement and put frag holes in them. The acros will be mounted to 3" disks with plugs on them. This way, if I have spinoids or other pests, I can remove acros anytime to treat.

 

[Reefahholic]

This is exactly what inspired my new build. I made shelves out of cement and put frag holes in them. The acros will be mounted to 3" disks with plugs on them. This way, if I have spinoids or other pests, I can remove acros anytime to treat.

Wow! Is that your tank now? How did you make the cement shelves? Which plugs will you be using. This looks much better than PVC. Gets me excited.

 

[Vested]

Wow! Is that your tank now? How did you make the cement shelves? Which plugs will you be using. This looks much better than PVC. Gets me excited.

JCole's Glass Box of Rocks

Scape looks awesome mate and so good seeing the tank all polished up and shiny again!!

humble.fish

 

[Reefahholic]

@JCOLE can you confirm the dose you used on your total volume.

Also, did it seem like no matter what you tried that the Ivermectin would not dissipate or come out.? Nobody will easily water change their way out of this. Water changes have almost no effect and simply further destabilize the system.

Everything I’ve done so far has basically zero effect. At the 6-15 day mark you would think there would be some degradation, but it seems to still be leaching strongly.

I wonder why these other guys did not report this finding?