Interceptor, Ivermectin, & Coral Boring Spionid Worms.

[Reefahholic]

Awesome, I may have missed it, but was there any follow up on the pieces from this dip? Did any of the worms recover? How are the frags doing?

The frags are doing amazing. I had one worm that survived on the Oregon Blue Tort. Only one! He apparently got lucky or the flow wasn’t able to penetrate his tube very well. Nothing survived on the Walt Disney. I looked very good to every night with a LED flashlight. Nothing but that one. I went ahead and dipped both again after about 4 weeks. I didn’t need to dip the Walt Disney, but put it in there anyway. The PE on the frags after the dip is pretty amazing. I wonder if it’s killing bad bacteria also. The corals seem to love it even with dips times of 1 hr.

8 drops with a 1mL syringe to 473mL kills everything if you leave them in for 1 hr. 473mL x 8 = 3,784 = approx 1 gallon. I just reduced it down to save water. A longer dip time would probably be better, because the corals tolerate very well. Maybe temp control (ideal) if you leave them in a long time. I just turn my A/C off or turn on the heat in the house to 75 degrees so the water doesn’t drop much. Keep my tank at 77-78.

 

[Reefahholic]

Awesome, I may have missed it, but was there any follow up on the pieces from this dip? Did any of the worms recover? How are the frags doing?

Can’t remember if I posted this pic here.

 

[Reefahholic]

I wonder if adding amino's or planktonic items either just prior or along with the meds would encourage the worms to filter feed and eat their final meals?

That would be a good idea. HeHe. Draw them out with Reef Fenzy or something like that and then slip the Ivermectin in.

It’s a harsh treatment, but literally has the potential to solve multiple problems at once. From Spionid, AEFW, Stomatella, Limpets, Bristle worms, Parasitic pods, Red bugs, White bugs, Black Bugs, and you name it.

Too bad it’s harsh on fish, but if that is an oxygenation issue it could be avoided.

It kills a lot of life, but if you’re prepared with water change water, siphon ready, filter socks, have some live sand, pods, etc…on hand and ready to go it could work. You just need to manage the Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate spike. Obviously manage Alk and nutrient spikes if they occur, but if you read the first guys report…it seemed like only nitrate was effected. The corals didn’t blink. It’s basically dangerous to everything except SPS and probably most corals will do fine.

 

[SpSDrew]

That would be a good idea. HeHe. Draw them out with Reef Fenzy or something like that and then slip the Ivermectin in.

It’s a harsh treatment, but literally has the potential to solve multiple problems at once. From Spionid, AEFW, Stomatella, Limpets, Bristle worms, Parasitic pods, Red bugs, White bugs, Black Bugs, and you name it.

Too bad it’s harsh on fish, but if that is an oxygenation issue it could be avoided.

It kills a lot of life, but if you’re prepared with water change water, siphon ready, filter socks, have some live sand, pods, etc…on hand and ready to go it could work. You just need to manage the Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate spike. Obviously manage Alk and nutrient spikes if they occur, but if you read the first guys report…it seemed like only nitrate was effected. The corals didn’t blink. It’s basically dangerous to everything except SPS and probably most corals will do fine.

Curious as to why Stomatella snails would be problematic?

 

[Reefahholic]

Curious as to why Stomatella snails would be problematic?

They’re not, but just like Limpets….they’re annoying. If you don’t have algae or problems with algae, you really don’t need them. They’re ugly. Lol. Stomatella’s aren’t too bad though, but I can’t stand Limpet’s. They stick to all my frag plugs on the bottom of the tank. I can never slide anything around, because they are stuck to the bottom and prevent it from easily sliding. They breed like crazy when nutrients get higher. I’d just rather not have either of them in here. I don’t have any Stomatella, but the Limpets got in.

 

[ryshark]

How long did you guys leave the interceptor in the system? I don’t really ever remove it bc it will degrade naturally over a couple days.

I’ve also read that properly dissolving the interceptor makes a huge difference, in regards to it being more potent when dissolved in hot water. @Charlie’s Frags @Sisterlimonpot how did you dissolve the crushed pills?

 

[SVP]

@Reefahholic
Here's what we spoke about.
Ivermectin primarily works by disrupting the nervous system of parasites, leading to paralysis and death. It is effective against a broad range of parasites, including nematodes and arthropods.
Milbemycin Oxime also affects the nervous system of parasites but works by a different mechanism compared to Ivermectin.
Both belong to the macrocyclic lactone class of compounds.
Ivermectins mechanism of action involves binding to glutamate-gated chloride channels in nerve and muscle cells of parasites. This binding interferes with neurotransmission, leading to hyperpolarization of the cell membrane, paralysis, and ultimately, the death of the parasite.
Milbemycin Oxime disrupts the normal functioning of the nervous system in parasites by affecting chloride channels that slightly differs from the channels Ivermectin disrupts. This disruption impairs the ability of the parasite's nerve and muscle cells to communicate, resulting in paralysis and, eventually, the death of parasite.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’ve also read that properly dissolving the interceptor makes a huge difference, in regards to it being more potent when dissolved in hot water. @Charlie’s Frags @Sisterlimonpot how did you dissolve the crushed pills?

You can use ethyl alcohol to help the medication dissolve. Also check the links out below for more help. Just make sure you read before you dose and know what is safe or not safe.

Not sure if this is reef safe:

Using DMSO to Dissolve Difficult Aquarium Medications

Using DMSO To Dissolve Difficult Aquarium Medications With a recent outbreak of columnaris, I found myself using medications I had been previously fortunate enough not to need! In doing so, I used an organic solvent, DMSO or Dimethyl Sulfoxide to “pre-liquify” if you will, relatively insoluble (i...

forum.aquariumcoop.com

How To - Use DMSO to dissolve medications

** WARNING ** DMSO can lower both your pH & Alkalinity. So it's best to test for both after using DMSO and raise, if needed. Sodium carbonate (soda ash) can be used to raise pH, and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) can be used to raise alkalinity. The following ratios were provided by @Dierks...

humble.fish

API General Cure

API General Cure is an interesting medication, as it contains both praziquantel and metronidazole. Prazi is widely used to treat gill flukes and some internal parasites, whereas metro is good at eradicating all internal parasites... even the ones prazi doesn't treat. So, you can see how useful...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reefahholic]

@Reefahholic
Here's what we spoke about.
Ivermectin primarily works by disrupting the nervous system of parasites, leading to paralysis and death. It is effective against a broad range of parasites, including nematodes and arthropods.
Milbemycin Oxime also affects the nervous system of parasites but works by a different mechanism compared to Ivermectin.
Both belong to the macrocyclic lactone class of compounds.
Ivermectins mechanism of action involves binding to glutamate-gated chloride channels in nerve and muscle cells of parasites. This binding interferes with neurotransmission, leading to hyperpolarization of the cell membrane, paralysis, and ultimately, the death of the parasite.
Milbemycin Oxime disrupts the normal functioning of the nervous system in parasites by affecting chloride channels that slightly differs from the channels Ivermectin disrupts. This disruption impairs the ability of the parasite's nerve and muscle cells to communicate, resulting in paralysis and, eventually, the death of parasite.

Thank you for contributing bro.

 

[CoralFragZ]

It may have come from me recently as I have been testing and sharing results with other collectors. Yes I have tested on pods, Milbemycin Oxime is most effective dissolved in ethanol 100 mg to 1 ml. This is mainly because it is water insoluble. More test needs to be done but it is likely we may be able to reduce the amount based on dissolving it correctly.

https://www.selleckchem.com/datasheet/milbemycin-oxime-S505500-DataSheet.html

 

[ryshark]

Boiling water seems easy. I wonder if the heat reduces the potency.

 

[ryshark]

It may have come from me recently as I have been testing. Yes I have tested on pods, Milbemycin Oxime is most effective dissolved in ethanol 100 mg to 1 ml. This is mainly because it is water insoluble. More test needs to be done but it is likely we may be able to reduce the amount based on dissolving it correctly.

https://www.selleckchem.com/datasheet/milbemycin-oxime-S505500-DataSheet.html

I’m no scientist/chemist, but wouldn’t ethanol have a carbon dosing effect?

 

[CoralFragZ]

I’m no scientist/chemist, but wouldn’t ethanol have a carbon dosing effect?

its is such a small amount so unlikely to cause any issues!

 

[MoshJosh]

Found some CBSW on one of my hammers (one on an acan as well but only one) thinking I may need to try the ivermectin. . . maybe I missed it, but where are we sourcing it @Reefahholic

 

[Reefahholic]

Found some CBSW on one of my hammers (one on an acan as well but only one) thinking I may need to try the ivermectin. . . maybe I missed it, but where are we sourcing it @Reefahholic

I got mine here:

Agri-Mectin (Ivermectin) 1% Sterile Solution Injection for Cattle and Swine (50 ml)

entirelypetspharmacy.com

I just covered several coral bases with Tunze Epoxy Putty where the spionid worms were getting too close to the main skeleton. Kinda looks stupid right now, but I think with time the bright purple color will fade enough to blend into the rock somewhat. I cut their tubes and smashed it in there. I hope this will give some of these mini colonies a better chance to make it to full colonies. I will update if they come up through the putty. Felt amazing to cut them off where they were very thick.

Observations:
*Skimmer never overflowed. Right now it’s bouncing in the bottom of the chamber.
*Tunze Epoxy dries in about 60 seconds.
*The consistency is great.
*Very minimal change to pH.
*Would work fantastic for mounting larger frags, mini colonies, or full colonies.

 

[Reefahholic]

@Sisterlimonpot

Did the Interceptor have any effects at the higher dosage.?

Also, I forgot if you used the regular Interceptor or the plus with Praziquantel.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

If it had any effect on them, I don't see it. The spoinids are still there in full force.

I believe I used straight milbemycin without prazi. I'll have to grab a box and check. If it does have prazi, I'll correct my post.

 

[Reefahholic]

If it had any effect on them, I don't see it. The spoinids are still there in full force.

I believe I used straight milbemycin without prazi. I'll have to grab a box and check. If it does have prazi, I'll correct my post.

Thank you sister. Just for the record, Adam at Battle Corals used the Interceptor Plus (the brand with Praziquantel) and said it killed them. I’m unsure if it was a different species or what, but he did say it was the classic Spionid worms with the two antennas.

I just PM’ed him for the exact dose and water volume. So it must be the Praziquantel in there that killed them, or at least the combination of both.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’m looking at liquid praziquantel up on my shelf right now, and I have plenty of test frags to try it on. Oh boy. I may have to go down this rabbit hole.

However, I will say that I’ve been putting Tunze Epoxy Putty over the spionid worms and it’s been working quite well. It’s been weeks now, and they are not coming up through it. I’ve put it around the base of several corals that had them. The corals that had them thick enough to affect them have way more PE and the growth is coming back or getting much better.

I have to say, this is the best Epoxy Putty I’ve ever used. It doesn’t dirty up the water or mess with the chemistry much. ICP-MS approved. I didn’t see any crazy numbers on this last analysis, and I used two tubes in here already. Highly recommend Tunze Epoxy Putty. You only have about a minute to do one area, so my advice is to not mix very much at one time and focus on one area at a time. Otherwise it goes hard too quickly. Literally 60 seconds or so, but it’s perfect amount of time to work one area and get it right.

 

[Reefahholic]

So I did hear back from Adam. He said that the second dose did not appear to have the same effects as the first dose. He's not sure what he did differently. At this point, I think it’s safe to conclude that Interceptor doesn’t work to eradicate ”spionid worms” at least at the doses that were used. It does work well for other pests though.

Both Ivermectin (regular) and the Ivermectin-Plus (with praziquantel) were used w/o success for spionid.

Meanwhile…@JCOLE is gearing up to treat his entire 500 Gallon with Ivermectin. In-tank treatment!

Don’t miss it!!!!!


Here’s how it went for the other guy:

Ivermectin In-Tank Treatment


khiann
Posted July 9, 2014
*
I have been fighting with Red Bugs and AEFW for 8 months. Tried out of tank dipping with iodine, coral dip and garlic(pills and fresh squash). With these treatment, both bugs came off and sps recover for 1 - 2 weeks, however, they come back with even stronger number of army. Losses many precious species of SPS due do this. I found that I have 2 type of red-bug(one red, one slightly larger but grey in color) and AEFW. The one does the most damage is red bugs. SPS will have the polyps retract, discolored and bite marks shown very quickly.

One thing to take note for the community, if you are buying wild/cultured sps from the local LFS, I can almost assure you will get either one of it if you never do any quarantine/dip. You will think that the sps didn't manage to survive in your tank condition but, to me, 90% of my sps death is due to this. It will start with polyp retracted, might NOT get discolor or turn brown. The base of the SPS will start minor flesh retract. If you never notice close enough, you will have small white spots of bite mark when infestion is long enough.

I decided enough is enough, decided to try Ivermectin 1% with the tank since some of the document on internet show it is effective on "both" the bugs. I was having difficulty getting the med from local vet, until I get it from somewhere(pm me if you need). It is a water soluble based of ivermectin for horse injection. 1%. WARNING, this is a very strong chemical to both human and animals. It will KILL all brittle star, snails, prawn, even small fish and small clams. Good thing is, some of the unwanted pest worm also get killed in the action. I did the full tank treatment with xtreme care. I will not be responsible for naything happen to your tank.

Treatment for my 4x2x1.5 tank with 4x1.5x1.5 sump. with 22 species of sensitive and hardy sps. with 3 soft coral and a few zoas, one bubble anemone

6pm, I prepare fresh replacement salt water enough for 70% water change. Exact salinity, ca and KH, same temperature.

8pm, I dose 15ML of the ivermectin by mixing with the tank water in a container, then pour into the sump. Turn off both of my skimmer and tank out all carbon.

802pm, all my sps polyp retracted, including monti and BN. Clams shuts. Massive bubbles forms in the sumps area.

805pm. all snail, acro crab and some unknown bugs running for life, sps start to slimes

815pm. good amount of red bug and AEFW clinging on slimes string created on sps

830pm. all small snail and crab is no longer moving, all the pest worms and brittle stars floating around in the water. Try to remove as much as I can with fine hole net. My heart almost stop seeing the condition of the tank. No white cloud created in the water though.

9pm. similar, except the sps polyp came back and clams open slightly. Massive amount of pest dead. Small fish including little nemo stunt, laying but breathing on tank bottom.

10pm, turned on all skimmers and carbon. Skimmers immediately overflow like crazy, I drain the skimmers overflow directly into the toilet. Close monitor every 15 minutes and replace the water lost with fresh water.

11pm, SPS came back like magic with better than before polyp extension. soft and hard coral is not affected at all. anemone too.

2am, almost 1/4 of water over flown and replaced.

4am, skimmer come back to normal, went to sleep

8am, replace new carbon, clean skimmer neck, replace the remaining 20% of water. coral status quo

2nd day passed, slightly higher NO3 noticed, 10ppm higher, came down in a few days. SPS does not seems to be affected, Zero coral casualty. All crabs and worms are gone, together with the pest. notice zero of it on the coral

3rd day, clams and fish all recovered

8th day, 10ML dose with similar procedure. This time no more massive death occur, prob all dead in the first dose.

16th day, 8ML dose


One month passed, I have zero pest in the tank, including AEFW! The sps rebound with extremely fast growth and polyp extension, much better color too. Will take picture too.. just a sharing for the folks, becareful with the treatment though. I think the water change make a different and didn't lead the treatment to tank crash.