1% Ivermectin (in-tank) Treatment for Coral Boring Spionid Worms

[Reefahholic]

Cool man keep the faith. Ammonia dosing has been working out well. You posted in the thread some pages back about mounting coral on pillars so to speak, can't remember exactly. I was/am not sure about frags I want to keep so mounted them on square tiles and kept adding tiles as they encrusted. I think in the end when the base decides to brank out it could be a pretty cool effect. Along the way i got lazy and many frags found a home lol
I do like the idea of pegging them better

Yes…being able to remove the corals is a game changer. Anybody keeping Acro’s should consider pegging or similar method. Not only to be able to pull for dips or treatment, but also for color shifting, PAR, Flow, growth, etc.

 

[Reefahholic]

Initial ICP-MS results on temporary tank. Red Sea Blue bucket @ 1.0262 was what I tested at when I sent the sample.

FYI…my DI stages just became exhausted reading 1 TDS on the out. That is why the Si is high. They are changed out now. New Cation, Anion, and Mixed bed.

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Excellent read!

Few questions...

• What do you do with snails? Do you bin them? Do these turds really burrow into snails??
• Does Hydrogen Peroxide not kill them?

 

[Reefahholic]

Excellent read!

Few questions...

• What do you do with snails? Do you bin them? Do these turds really burrow into snails??
• Does Hydrogen Peroxide not kill them?

Just a little update, but first let me
Answer your questions:

So unfortunately snails easily introduce the spionid worms to a system. So do many other things. Frag plugs, corals (especially the bases, but they can also climb high in a branch from inside the skeleton) rocks, sand, LPS bases/skeleton, but primarily anything hard that’s made from calcium carbonate material. There’s no way to get around it really. I trashed my snails and treated the whole system which crashed it as you now know. H2O2 will not kill them.

Many people may be reading this and thinking to themselves why was he so anal about these little Spionid worms. First, I want to say there are a few different species (probably many species) of these worms, and some are not as bad as others. The particular species that I had, and the ones I’ve seen a few people with seem to have come out of Florida (particularly from the Florida Keys and the Gulf of Mexico) on KP Aquatics LR, TBS LR, and Gulf LR. Three of us have the same species and all three of us ordered KP rock. These snails started out in only a few pieces, but over time they literally got into almost every single acro. Over 45 species in the system. Although the corals were still growing and some thriving, many were starting to slow down and become irritated or hindered. The worms were boring into the skeletons, and when I was digging some out and fragging the affected area I was noticing that all the tissue was dead underneath them. Not sure if they were feeding on the coral, or the tissue just dies due to their boring into the tissue. Either way, I was no longer happy with the growth as I felt we could be progressing faster, and looking at the spiky brown worm tubes was driving me nuts. That is why I was ok taking a huge gamble to get rid of them. It could have paid off in a major way, but didn’t unfortunately. That’s reefing.



Now…last UPDATE on this whole disaster:

It’s currently been 44 days since I treated. Tomorrow 09/10/24 will be 45 days!

Temporary 40/B tank has been up for 22 days. LR was added 19 days ago.

That tank has been an absolute disaster also. I think it’s because I added a decent amount of biomass to that little system that still had ivermectin in the coral tissues and frag plugs. The tank has just been extremely abnormal and unstable. Although I did add Dino’s and Cyano from the other system. I also didn’t realize that my DI stages were exhausted at the time of filling that tank (1 TDS coming through) which resulted in 700+ Si in the RODI and 1159 Si in the tank as you can see from the ICP-MS results earlier in this thread.

That caused a Diatom bloom, but there also seems to be an algae bloom as well. Phosphate was coming back zero on Hanna ULR Phosphorus, and I’ve had to dose to keep it up around .06 as the Dino’s, Diatom’s, and Algae have all been competing for it. The water has been so cloudy the corals can’t get enough light. The bloom just will not clear, and I’m too lazy to pull out UV again. Literally can’t see 4-6” into the tank. It’s like a major war going on in there between the new LR, and all the old bacteria and crap that was on the old frags and plugs. I’ve never seen anything like it. The tank is basically crashing just like my other DT, and I feel that it’s due to some of the ivermectin transferring over, but also the corals were pretty much done anyway after 25-30 days of the overdose, and then the transition to a new tank during the nitrogen cycle of course wasn’t ideal, but had no choice.

However, ammonia only got up to 0.25-0.5 ppm, and the tank cycled in about a week or so. So I do not believe the ammonia had much to do with it at those lower levels. However, the Phosphate has been a major issue. Corals need it, and with that much competition they may not have been unable to get enough which could have definitely contributed to many STN/RTN events. Hard to say. Just the new tank in general with inadequate light due to the heavy bloom could have been a primary cause. It’s just another disaster, and after 45 days of acros steadily declining, I’m ready to move forward with some healthy new pieces and trash all these unhealthy corals. Still debating.

Here’s what the temp tank turned into after a very short time. This is a good pic. Looks much worse now and the bloom is crazy thick. Never seen anything like it especially with LR and established plugs. Usually the water clears pretty fast. I haven’t scoped it, but I’m pretty sure it’s an algae or diatom bloom. Yes, no joke…this pic below is actually clear compared to now.

I think the corals are just too damaged, and at this point I’ve lost about 50% or maybe more now. The remaining survivors have me a bit worried to add them back into my other display- which is now completely clean. I don’t want to transfer any residual ivermectin back to that system. I’d definitely rebase all the frags, and trash the plugs if I did keep some of the corals. I also don’t want to reintroduce Ostreopsis back to that system. So I may call it a total loss and trash all the corals and start completely fresh. Not sure what I wanna do yet.

Will be adding water and a scape here soon, but will not add corals for quite a while (3 months or so) so I can see how this system is going to act first. That way I’ll be able to tackle any issues quite easily without sensitive Acro’s in the tank.

System was a real PITA to clean, but we’re back to a blank canvas and that feels good. Plenty of bleach and acid ran through the system so hopefully the Ivermectin is completely gone.

Still need to dump and clean the Calcium Reactor. That is the next project after Skimmer, UV, and other pumps tomorrow. Slow and steady back to normalcy.

 

[Reefahholic]

Here’s a pic of the 40/B this morning. I wanted you guys to see this. This has went on for days now. Keep in mind, the tank was started with fresh LR, established frag plugs, mini colonies, colonies. All have some good bacteria, and should easily help cycle the tank and clear the water in short time. ICP-MS was sent, and all chemistry corrected. Dosing nutrients to hit a lower baseline to stay off zero. Current P = .08 and N = 4. Fish were added to also keep a baseline of nutrients. Tank cycled (according to ammonia levels fairly quickly). I’ve probably setup 50+ smaller tanks like this over the years, and never seen anything like it. Just another crazy disaster, and I feel it all stems from ivermectin that’s still in the darn tissues and bound to the frag plugs. I’m just so sick of it.

I’m fixing to trash the rest of these corals that are left, start the other tank, move the fish back, and be done with this 45 day ivermectin nightmare.

Bet me when I restart the other tank, I have zero issues and the water is crystal clear from the start.

Ivermectin is like poison in my tanks. I’m still confused how people were able to somehow avoid any issues at all.

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Ivermectin is like poison in my tanks. I’m still confused how people were able to somehow avoid any issues at all.

Are you going to use Ivermectin as a dip? Or do you recommend not using it at all?

 

[Dburr1014]

Are you going to use Ivermectin as a dip? Or do you recommend not using it at all?

A dip is okay.
Just clean rinse with GAC after dip, before going back in tank.

 

[Reefahholic]

Are you going to use Ivermectin as a dip? Or do you recommend not using it at all?

I’ll personally still use ivermectin as a dip, but will be making sure I rinse the corals really well before adding them back to the system. I didn’t experience any issues before if only dipping. Maybe because the time frame is short. I’d keep it 1 hr or under, or make the dip a little stronger, and dip for only 30-45 minutes.

 

[Reefahholic]

So I ended up just shutting down the 40/B. The more I thought about it, the more I got paranoid, and decided I’d rather avoid transferring anything back to my main system. After 45 days…I trashed all the corals.

I filled my main DT back up, threw some rock in there and the cycle begins again. Will aquascape later. Feels good to be back on track. It’s been a very busy few days.

Will be bringing all the parameters back on point very soon starting will KH, Ca, Mg, P, N. Then sending ICP-MS after the cycle is complete.

 

[Reefahholic]

Added a little more rock just now. This should be plenty to aquascape later. I’ll let it cook for a while first. Too tired to scape right now. So glad to have the Macro Rock out of my system. Will add the Haldies back later when I get some acros back in here.

 

[Reefering1]

Is this all new rock or from previous iteration?

 

[Reefahholic]

Is this all new rock or from previous iteration?

All new dry rock that a guy had been collecting for several years. Marshall Islands, Fiji, Pukani, etc…

Should do much better than my previous Marco rock. I will seed it with live rock soon.

 

[Reefering1]

What rock are you seeding it with? Kp? Tbs?
Would be nice if you start a build and tag me. Would love to follow your build "from the beginning"! The way you document things, it would be a great asset to aspiring acrophiliacs

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

All new dry rock that a guy had been collecting for several years. Marshall Islands, Fiji, Pukani, etc…

Should do much better than my previous Marco rock. I will seed it with live rock soon.

If it's dry it should be the exact same as marco

 

[Reefahholic]

What rock are you seeding it with? Kp? Tbs?
Would be nice if you start a build and tag me. Would love to follow your build "from the beginning"! The way you document things, it would be a great asset to aspiring acrophiliacs

Not sure on the LR yet, but I may still use the KP, because I’ll be able to remove the Acro’s and dip them. If I can get some good quality LR other than KP or Gulf rock I’d probably go that direction. KP is sourcing the same rock as Marco Rocks, but at least it’s sitting on the Atlantic side in the keys for a few years before it’s coming in my tank. Plus I don’t need much to seed with. I know a guy who’s importing from Australia, but he pulls the rock out of the water too much taking pics and videos. It’s good rock, but I’m afraid most of the bacteria and micro-crustaceans are likely dead. I’ll tag you if I start another thread. May just add on to my old thread.

This is the Aussie rock that’s available now if anyone is interested. Just arrived a few days ago.

 

[Reefahholic]

If it's dry it should be the exact same as marco

Not even close to Marco. I’ve used Marco rock many times (more than any other rock), and it’s the absolute slowest rock to establish out of everything I’ve used in the past. Many times it will not grow coralline algae for 14 months or so. I feel like it has too much clay like material in it. It’s not porous at all (like they claim) compared to Marshall Islands, Fiji, or Pukani rock. It has a bad tendency to bind phosphate aggressively, which if not handled promptly, will promote Dino’s, Cyano, and problimatic algae.

I trashed all my Marco rock, and Andre found a great place for his too.

I’ll never put Marco rock in any tank ever again unless it’s soaked in the ocean for a minimal of 2 years.

 

[Northern Flicker]

I can't wrap my head around this. The outcome seemed pretty predictable, why kill all those otherwise healthy animals?

 

[Reefahholic]

Initial parameters on main DT restart:

KH: 8.5
Ca: 450
Mg: 1320 (corrected to 1350)
P: 0.22
N: 0 (setup auto dose)
Ammonia: 0 (for now)

Light: Low 20% intensity full spectrum for my viewing pleasure until cycled and corals back in the tank.

Will dose Dr. Tim’s One and Only when Ammonia starts coming up.

 

[Reefahholic]

Time to dump this nastiness. I can only imagine how much ivermectin is bound to this media. This will get a good bleach bath followed by acid.

 

[Reefahholic]

Slow and steady. Eat that bleach!