Interceptor, Ivermectin, & Coral Boring Spionid Worms.
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Minifoot77
Jack of all trades and a master of none
I figured I'd treat the whole system because its probably gonna get restarted just down the road
Dburr1014
10K Club member
I've been meaning to update this thread but I've been sick as a dog with a respiratory virus, so I apologize.
After a few days I moved all of my fish over into the new system. I didn't really change anything to the new system water, ie skimmer was not running I only added so many new saltwater gallons but did nothing to the existing water. I'm only saying this because there was a vermectin most likely dripping off the rocks that went into the new system. None of the fish are affected and I've got some pretty old fish. My royal gramma is over 10 years old. Needless to say he's doing fine. After a few more days I moved all my snails over I didn't lose any that I could see. And I moved my Scarlet hermit's over and my shrimp and my two serpent Stars, all are doing fine. I even had Rock flower and enemies go through a complete Ivermectin dip unfazed. My bubble tip went through a quick dip no problem.
So my bottom line is, ivermectin is it good treatment for dipping. I would not consider it reef safe by any means or use in a reef tank, but if swapping to a new tank and you want to dip all your Coral, should be fine. But I would definitely plan to move all the coral in one day because of the die off. Then I would wait at least a couple days to move any other fish and inverts after your ammonia Spike has subsided.
After a few days I moved all of my fish over into the new system. I didn't really change anything to the new system water, ie skimmer was not running I only added so many new saltwater gallons but did nothing to the existing water. I'm only saying this because there was a vermectin most likely dripping off the rocks that went into the new system. None of the fish are affected and I've got some pretty old fish. My royal gramma is over 10 years old. Needless to say he's doing fine. After a few more days I moved all my snails over I didn't lose any that I could see. And I moved my Scarlet hermit's over and my shrimp and my two serpent Stars, all are doing fine. I even had Rock flower and enemies go through a complete Ivermectin dip unfazed. My bubble tip went through a quick dip no problem.
So my bottom line is, ivermectin is it good treatment for dipping. I would not consider it reef safe by any means or use in a reef tank, but if swapping to a new tank and you want to dip all your Coral, should be fine. But I would definitely plan to move all the coral in one day because of the die off. Then I would wait at least a couple days to move any other fish and inverts after your ammonia Spike has subsided.
Hi all,
I picked up coral boring worms from a vendor here in the UK. The population grew much much faster than any other I have experienced before.
I reached out to a vet here for a prescription of Ivermectin. We had a lengthy discussion and he agreed with the protocol of 1ml per US gallon of 1% Ivermectin (Noromectin in my case).
I started a full tank treatment about 45min ago.
All of my pods, bristle worms, limpets and starfish are dead. The spionid infestation looks dead and they are hanging out of the tubes very limply. Spirorbid worms appear to still be alive.
I have quite a variety of fish in the tank, so far the only one showing distress is an anthia. My wrasse appeared to be in trouble but rebounded after about 15min.
To the person that suspected this may damage flatworms, you deserve a gold star…I didn’t know I had any flatworms. I do, or did.
Ivermectin seems to be incredibly harsh, but I don’t believe this is necessarily a bad thing. Time will tell over the next 24hrs.
I picked up coral boring worms from a vendor here in the UK. The population grew much much faster than any other I have experienced before.
I reached out to a vet here for a prescription of Ivermectin. We had a lengthy discussion and he agreed with the protocol of 1ml per US gallon of 1% Ivermectin (Noromectin in my case).
I started a full tank treatment about 45min ago.
All of my pods, bristle worms, limpets and starfish are dead. The spionid infestation looks dead and they are hanging out of the tubes very limply. Spirorbid worms appear to still be alive.
I have quite a variety of fish in the tank, so far the only one showing distress is an anthia. My wrasse appeared to be in trouble but rebounded after about 15min.
To the person that suspected this may damage flatworms, you deserve a gold star…I didn’t know I had any flatworms. I do, or did.
Ivermectin seems to be incredibly harsh, but I don’t believe this is necessarily a bad thing. Time will tell over the next 24hrs.
Yes, I did. I don’t believe that incessantly removing corals to treat something that bores into rock and skeleton is a good way to proceed, that goes without mentioning the speed of reproduction that these things multiply at.
At the 45min mark I have resumed ozone and skimmer.
It is proving difficult to remove from the water column.
This is going to serve as a learning experience, either as a success or as a failure.
At the 45min mark I have resumed ozone and skimmer.
It is proving difficult to remove from the water column.
This is going to serve as a learning experience, either as a success or as a failure.
JCOLE
Grower of the Small Polyps
1ml per gallon is a lot. I did 1mL per 10 gallons and that seemed way to much. I don't think we should do more than 1mL per 25 gallons, to be honest. All in all, it doesn't sound like you lost much but your CUC. It will take some time but the system will bounce back. It has been 3 months since I dosed Ivermectin into my 500 gallon system and the corals that survived are now starting to color and grow again.
Let’s start with the good, the bad and the ugly. I am not going to sugarcoat it.
Ugly: Fish have continued to die. The concentration I used is not safe for fish. They enter a paralytic state but will eventually die.
Bad: It is difficult to remove from the water column. A hydrophobic scum gets formed in the skimmer and on the water surface, also along the edges of the glass. I cannot guess how much is actually being removed at this point. Still to be noted as this progresses.
Good: It did what it was intended to, it kills boring worms very very well. My tank became worm soup, I had severely underestimated the amount of worms in the tank. I think there was 5x more than what I had assumed. It killed flatworms, I didn’t know I had flatworms and this is a tank I spend around 2hrs per day staring into. Corals are 100% unaffected, they get annoyed but have bounced back entirely .
So I have a few thoughts on this.
Would I do this again? Yes, but I would remove all fish and snails to a separate body of water.
I firmly don’t believe that dipping individual corals is a viable method of removing boring worms. I had far more dead worms than inhabited my corals lending credence to the worms being everywhere in an aquarium.
The flatworms have surprised and concerned me. I have never seen one in this tank until yesterday.
The loss of fish is self inflicted but still disheartening.
Despite that all, I think ivermectin is going to become a favourite tool for all reef keepers for prophylactic treatment of all new corals.
@Sisterlimonpot
Rich, I can’t tell you if the vermetids I have are dead or not, they were very agitated by the treatment and some appear to be hanging from the tubes but that isn’t to say they are dead. Give me a couple of days and I will let you know if this did kill them. Bear in mind I used a ridiculous concentration of 1ml per US gallon.
To everyone I am very much open to feedback and a discussion on this.
Ugly: Fish have continued to die. The concentration I used is not safe for fish. They enter a paralytic state but will eventually die.
Bad: It is difficult to remove from the water column. A hydrophobic scum gets formed in the skimmer and on the water surface, also along the edges of the glass. I cannot guess how much is actually being removed at this point. Still to be noted as this progresses.
Good: It did what it was intended to, it kills boring worms very very well. My tank became worm soup, I had severely underestimated the amount of worms in the tank. I think there was 5x more than what I had assumed. It killed flatworms, I didn’t know I had flatworms and this is a tank I spend around 2hrs per day staring into. Corals are 100% unaffected, they get annoyed but have bounced back entirely .
So I have a few thoughts on this.
Would I do this again? Yes, but I would remove all fish and snails to a separate body of water.
I firmly don’t believe that dipping individual corals is a viable method of removing boring worms. I had far more dead worms than inhabited my corals lending credence to the worms being everywhere in an aquarium.
The flatworms have surprised and concerned me. I have never seen one in this tank until yesterday.
The loss of fish is self inflicted but still disheartening.
Despite that all, I think ivermectin is going to become a favourite tool for all reef keepers for prophylactic treatment of all new corals.
@Sisterlimonpot
Rich, I can’t tell you if the vermetids I have are dead or not, they were very agitated by the treatment and some appear to be hanging from the tubes but that isn’t to say they are dead. Give me a couple of days and I will let you know if this did kill them. Bear in mind I used a ridiculous concentration of 1ml per US gallon.
To everyone I am very much open to feedback and a discussion on this.
Minifoot77
Jack of all trades and a master of none
Have you seen any more copepods? Or did it wipe everything out? Did you check nitrates or ammonia? Alk consumption?
Hi Mini,
Every single pod is dead.
Just from the amount of death in the tank I am sure nutrients have spiked. Oxygen bubbles are forming on all surfaces where there is some algae.
I will check alk this evening.
Vermetids are not dead, dazed but not dead.
Every single pod is dead.
Just from the amount of death in the tank I am sure nutrients have spiked. Oxygen bubbles are forming on all surfaces where there is some algae.
I will check alk this evening.
Vermetids are not dead, dazed but not dead.
Update: snails and starfish have started to come back to life. All pods and worms remain dead except vermetids (may their butt holes itch and their arms be too short to reach). Sponges have died.
There is a big nutrient spike but this is to be expected with mass die off.
There is a big nutrient spike but this is to be expected with mass die off.
OP
OP
Isn’t that 0.1mL per gallon. Or 10mL per 100/G.
I’m thinking even 1-2 mL per 100/G as a starting dose. It should be much gentler on the corals and reduce the spike. You could watch it every 30 min to 1 hr and increase by 1mL if too weak. Or just do a second treatment at later date that is 4 mL, 5mL, etc. Documentation and mitigation is key here. You want to start early morning and have a solid plan thought out. No other treatments or anything crazy going on before hand. I’m going to setup a QT to net my stunted fish out to let them recover in oxygenated untreated water while the treatment is in process. Will probably keep them out at that point to do a second treatment later. Then return them when I’m done.
I’m a little surprised that one reefer had elevated nutrient spike while JCOLE had the opposite every of depleted nutrients. JCOLE do you have nutrient numbers before you started?
OP
OP
Everyone here understands this is NOT a REEF SAFE treatment. If you don’t, you aren’t reading the entirety of this thread.Post 143 I updated my experiences 6 days ago and fully warned about in tank treatment and it's definatly NOT reef safe.
I am sorry for your losses.
We all know it KILLS just about everything!
SPS Corals do extremely well and other species, but this treatment is only for those who understand the risks involved, and assume all responsibility as their own- based on their personal research.
This is not a treatment for beginners. This is dangerous and not recommended at all.
Anyone trying this should proceed at their own risk and know that fish will die, and about everything else in the system.
That said…let those of us who understand the risks involved continue on and document our research.
OP
OP
I found it interesting that some of your brittle stars were able to recover at this dose.
This same outcome continues to be repeated.
Did Carbon reduce this effect later?
Fish will die for sure. All fish should be removed prior if possible (which is often impossible). I plan to net mine and out into a QT tank as they become stunned or start with a very low dose of 1-2 mL per 100/G and see if they are able to tolerate that. Not sure how ivermectin impacts oxygenation.
That massive amount of death is absolutely stunning for everybody. You should have fine mesh nets ready to remove what’s possible. Siphon, filter socks, floss, power filter ready on standby.
100% agree, the population is too large and they reinfect previously dipped corals.
This is really the most devastating thing, because most of us are unable to remove them.
Definitely will be an excellent tool.
Any update? I don’t think it kills them. They are able to close off their tubes. Devils from Hell.
That is a crazy high dose, but at least we know that completely nuked all the Spionid. Please update if you see any pop up later.
JCOLE
Grower of the Small Polyps
No. My display is 500 gallons but the system is larger. I calculated based on total system volume. I wouldn't recommend what I dosed as a good starting dose. I would do half or lower.
OP
OP
Ok I see. Yes, fully agree. I will start at the bottom end and work my way up if needed. I think these bigger doses are just not needed, but the primary goal is to kill the Spionid so they may be needed. We just need to find the most minimal dose to get them to mitigate fish losses. Once we zero in on a good target dose, it will be a little more safer. The massive amount of death will obviously still occur, but maybe we can get the dose low enough so that most fish will survive. Some will of course be more sensitive than others, and I’d still remove all fish if any way possible. Thank you for your detailed response on initial treatment.
Just to be clear, did you say you treated the 500/G with Ivermectin and Bayer on same day or next day. Two medications back to back.?
JCOLE
Grower of the Small Polyps
Yes, same day. The Dylox seemed to work great with no issues on fish or corals. However, 30 minutes after Ivermectin is when I knew I messed up.
I am not a good example for this treatment as I did not treat as someone normally would. I just wanted to let others know the experience I had but would not recommend anyone to do what I did.
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OP
OP
Well, I appreciate all your documentation. I wish you would have waited on the ivermectin treatment though. That was a bad idea to use both back to back!!!
One is dangerous enough, but I can understand how the excitement can make you jump the gun! I’m looking at my tank now dreaming to watch what 1-2 mL of ivermectin will do in 12 hrs time.
I’ll plan my execution well, and be prepared to loose it all, but the experience itself, and being able to document for the future of the hobby might all be well worth it. If you’re not happy with your tank, because of Spionid's, its almost not enjoyable anymore. Every time I look at the tank the corals are growing and thriving, but the sight of the Spionid’s in every base begins to wear on my patience over time.
I never do crazy things with my reef or make really dumb decisions, but I may have to this time. Still debating.
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