1% Ivermectin (in-tank) Treatment for Coral Boring Spionid Worms
- Thread starter Reefahholic
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OP
OP
In the bathtub now. Haha. Of course I left it dirty from a Dino outbreak early on. Will have it on the system water a thorough rinse in about 45 minutes.
OP
OP
Sorry about the thread titles. I’m having Rev edit the Interceptor title on the other thread, because it started out as full Interceptor and kinda transitioned into Ivermectin when we realized all the doses used were not killing the Spionid worms.
Rev accidentally changed this title instead of the Interceptor thread. So he has to change this one back to what it originally was (only Ivermectin), and then go edit the other thread.
OP
OP
Ah…and wouldn’t you know it, UV was working when I took if off the system, and now it’s not coming on. Just tested the connection with my multimeter and the wiring and bulb connection are both getting voltage. The bulb is saying open loop. So I think the bulb went bad, and not the connection or wiring. Not a multimeter expert though so if anybody knows, plz let me know. I’ll order another bulb in the meantime.
2 bulbs will be here on Sunday.
2 bulbs will be here on Sunday.
OP
OP
Oh snap! I was about to put it up, flipped the switch after I put the bulb back in and it came on! Let’s hope I can get it on the system without it getting bumping and going off again.
OP
OP
It’s a cheap multimeter, but I got it working right now. Let me try to get on the system real quick.
OP
OP
Little dirty, but we’re on.
JCOLE
Grower of the Small Polyps
Yes, it will linger. Ive heard up to 6 months. I talked to other hobbyists who have done whole tank treatments and they couldn't add snails for 3 months.
I also read where GAC does remove Ivermectin.
After a week, I blew off the rocks daily and dosed calcium carbonate as a flocculant.
I am in the middle of a full reset, though. I ended up bleaching and acid washing every rock in hopes of removing any medication.
I also read where GAC does remove Ivermectin.
After a week, I blew off the rocks daily and dosed calcium carbonate as a flocculant.
I am in the middle of a full reset, though. I ended up bleaching and acid washing every rock in hopes of removing any medication.
OP
OP
Yeah, it’s definitely lingering. H2O2 may help too. It’s obvious I overdosed at 15mL per 100/G, and most before us.
Here’s the really bad news. I was looking around this morning with a LED flashlight at the corals, and noticed two Spionid worms survived. Yep…I saw two of their tentacles sticking out of the dirt tubes. Only a few made it, and I haven’t seen anything for 14 days! I’ve been looking hard too. What a bummer.
OP
OP
So here’s probably the last documentation for this crazy treatment. At this point I’m going to call this an overdose.
The worms survived which you’ll read about below if you get that far.
My experience was unlike the others. At first things went really well, until the phosphate depleted.
I also noticed the Ivermectin wasn’t really dissipating which sucks. It’s definitely lingering. Currently I’m merely trying to recover the system and keep it alive.
I’m still in the battle, and will continue testing daily. Will likely experiment more with H2O2 and UV.
This picks up from where the last documentation left off on day 9. In total until now, I’ve only lost 1 Acro, 1 Monti Cap, and 1 Setosa (new piece that wasn’t established).
Monday 08/05/24 (Day 9) 1:50am. Lime Green Monti RTN’ing. I trashed it, but have a small backup frag. The Strawberry Shortcake is very pale, and will probably be next. The ARC Master Yoda looks very pale also. Those two Acro’s look the worst. Beyond those I’d guess the ACI Toxic Acropora Florida and the CC Voodoo Majick. Both are showing significant color loss. On a positive note, the Goni is finally starting to extend its polyps slightly.
5:21pm. KH = 8.8, P = 0.248, N = 11.6. Phos -N dose reduced by 65%. Goni is looking slightly better. Putting out about an inch of polyps. Fish are doing really well. No Acro’s have STN or RTN…”YET”, but I suspect a few will soon. Corals look about the same. Will likely keep doing 10% water changes about every 4 days to keep flushing the system until I feel things are looking like they should. Honestly, I’m scared to turn on the GAC as I feel the system will run too clean right now. It’s obviously important to keep dosing back nutrients, but also too take care of nutritional needs when the corals are in poor health and stressed. In addition to the regular nutrient dosing and other vitamins, amino’s, etc., I’ve of course been maintaining all the trace element dosing, but I’ve reduced the doses according to the KH consumption. I’m hoping the majority of the corals will be strong enough to pull through. I’ll probably lose a few of the weaker pieces that were already struggling beforehand, but that’s ok. 15mL per 100/G was too potent in this tank (might be different in another). It’s basically an overdose for me. In the future I’d only try 3-5 mL and leave it in for 24 hrs. Then flush the system or find a way to remove it quickly. Another ICP-MS will result by 08/07. Will correct all elements, and check trace targets. Sending another in a week to follow up again.
Tuesday 08/06/24 (Day 10) 7:20am. Sadly, the first Acro STN today (Day 10). The ACI Toxic Acropora Florida is starting to STN from two tips, and also in the middle of one branch (always the one you love). The Florida started to take a hard turn about the 6th day (08/02), by the 8th day (08/04), it got extremely pale, and PE became nonexistent. I just fragged two branches, maybe I’ll get lucky, but I doubt it. Also noticing the JF Fox Flame yellow tips are fading out. This could be partially due to turning down the light intensity (maybe a bad idea), and the fact that one of my Halide ballast went out. Either way, it’s definitely not helping the situation. Thankfully, the replacement ballast will be here in 2 days. Today I will change the program back to the original light intensity. The other three corals that continue to look really rough are the Strawberry Shortcake, ARC Master Yoda, and CC Voodoo Majick. The menstrual filaments on the Shortcake are still extremely active though, but it’s super pale. The Voodoo Majick also got really pale at the base, but the top looks better. The Yoda was putting out new growth everywhere, but the entire piece is very pale now. Everything else looks fairly decent for now, but the Goni is back in a tight ball with zero polyps out.
7:56am. P = 0.270 ppm.
5:40pm. KH = 8.8, P = 0.233, N = 13.8. Phos -N dose increased (trying to keep P about 0.25ppm with Dino’s present and dry stressed pale corals). All elements corrected and some reduced/increased per ICP-MS results. Changed CO2 absorption media. Acropora Florida continues to STN. Will trash it soon. Sorry Chris! One of the two frags has started to STN (of course). The other probably isn’t far behind, but it was worth a try. Ran GAC for 45 minutes just to see if any difference in PE with Goni or other corals.
Wednesday 08/07/24 (Day 11) 8:00am. GAC didn’t seem to make much difference. Will run a little longer next time, but don’t want to strip the water too clean as some corals already looking dry. Trying to keep a higher nutrient environment until things recover. Cyano and Dino’s dominating the system with the rich bioavailable phosphate and instability, but I’ll switch back to a simple Orthophosphate product here soon. Will start a mild Organic Carbon dose again today. Will likely add UV for a short period. Will do another 10% water change tomorrow. Most of the corals looking about the same excluding the Strawberry Shortcake. That piece looks really bad now and is loosing its feeding response. I expect this to be the next one to check out. It’s probably the PAR, but I don’t want to turn it down due to one piece having issues. The ARC Master Yoda and CC Voodoo Majick are very pale, but both seem to be hanging in there for now. The Anemone is still walking and doesn’t look his normal. He’s obviously stressed. The Goni is completely retracted again, maybe the GAC stressed him even with the short duration.
4:17pm. Target fed entire system. Strawberry Shortcake looks bad. Feeding response is still there, but abnormal for that piece. Will probably check out in the next few days. Goni looking better this afternoon. About like it was yesterday. Putting out about one inch of polyps.
5:30pm. KH = 9.2 (new reagent bottle), P = 0.282, N = 13.6. Changed Phosphate source and reduced dose to .06 ppm daily.
7:30pm. Cleaned Wave-Makers and Frag Racks due to increased algae growth from instability, and the previous extremely bioavailable phosphate source. I’m also purposely running nutrients higher to keep the corals happy.
Thursday 08/08/24 (Day 12) 3:24am. Started GAC for 1 hr. Noticed Orange Montipora Setosa starting to STN. Another thing to note is how much color the Rainbow BTA has lost. It came from a starving system, colored up amazingly, and now looks worse than it did when I got it. I’m guessing that some Ivermectin is still leaching from the rocks.
5:30pm. KH = 9.4, P = 0.254, N = 16.2. KH rising despite turning down CaRx 2-3x. It seems that there is some level of Ivermectin that binds to rocks, and is now leaching (I don’t have sand). The anemone and Goni still seem to be moderately affected/irritated even after almost 100% of the water was changed. Some of the corals look better one day and then seem to look worse the next as if they’re being irritated again by some residual leaching from the rocks. This is just a guess, but the Ivermectin definitely seems to stick around, and is not easily removed even after running GAC and performing multiple water changes. I believe the corals, anemone, etc…are having a hard time recovering, because they’re still being affected by a constant residual level in the system. I’ll start UV this evening and will be extremely interested to see how the anemone and Goni look in the morning as UV apparently helps with degradation.
Friday 08/09/24 (Day 13) 7:30am. Metal Halide Ballast replaced. Happy to have full light again.
5:45pm. KH = 9.2, P = 0.212, N = 16.7
7:28pm. 55w UV deployed with Sicce 2.0 pump adjusted to a little less than half open. That’s about 40%. Should allow decent contact time for the medication and Dino’s.
10:23pm. No significant change to Goni PE after approx 3hrs of UV.
Saturday 08/10/24 (Day 14) 12:09am. The unthinkable just happened. I was looking around with a LED flashlight, and can you believe it, I saw two spionid worms (their two tentacles coming out of the dirt tubes). It’s been 14 days! I was looking hard daily, and haven’t seen anything until this morning. Sadly a few survived. What a bummer. Performed 20% water change.
The worms survived which you’ll read about below if you get that far.
My experience was unlike the others. At first things went really well, until the phosphate depleted.
I also noticed the Ivermectin wasn’t really dissipating which sucks. It’s definitely lingering. Currently I’m merely trying to recover the system and keep it alive.
I’m still in the battle, and will continue testing daily. Will likely experiment more with H2O2 and UV.
This picks up from where the last documentation left off on day 9. In total until now, I’ve only lost 1 Acro, 1 Monti Cap, and 1 Setosa (new piece that wasn’t established).
Monday 08/05/24 (Day 9) 1:50am. Lime Green Monti RTN’ing. I trashed it, but have a small backup frag. The Strawberry Shortcake is very pale, and will probably be next. The ARC Master Yoda looks very pale also. Those two Acro’s look the worst. Beyond those I’d guess the ACI Toxic Acropora Florida and the CC Voodoo Majick. Both are showing significant color loss. On a positive note, the Goni is finally starting to extend its polyps slightly.
5:21pm. KH = 8.8, P = 0.248, N = 11.6. Phos -N dose reduced by 65%. Goni is looking slightly better. Putting out about an inch of polyps. Fish are doing really well. No Acro’s have STN or RTN…”YET”, but I suspect a few will soon. Corals look about the same. Will likely keep doing 10% water changes about every 4 days to keep flushing the system until I feel things are looking like they should. Honestly, I’m scared to turn on the GAC as I feel the system will run too clean right now. It’s obviously important to keep dosing back nutrients, but also too take care of nutritional needs when the corals are in poor health and stressed. In addition to the regular nutrient dosing and other vitamins, amino’s, etc., I’ve of course been maintaining all the trace element dosing, but I’ve reduced the doses according to the KH consumption. I’m hoping the majority of the corals will be strong enough to pull through. I’ll probably lose a few of the weaker pieces that were already struggling beforehand, but that’s ok. 15mL per 100/G was too potent in this tank (might be different in another). It’s basically an overdose for me. In the future I’d only try 3-5 mL and leave it in for 24 hrs. Then flush the system or find a way to remove it quickly. Another ICP-MS will result by 08/07. Will correct all elements, and check trace targets. Sending another in a week to follow up again.
Tuesday 08/06/24 (Day 10) 7:20am. Sadly, the first Acro STN today (Day 10). The ACI Toxic Acropora Florida is starting to STN from two tips, and also in the middle of one branch (always the one you love). The Florida started to take a hard turn about the 6th day (08/02), by the 8th day (08/04), it got extremely pale, and PE became nonexistent. I just fragged two branches, maybe I’ll get lucky, but I doubt it. Also noticing the JF Fox Flame yellow tips are fading out. This could be partially due to turning down the light intensity (maybe a bad idea), and the fact that one of my Halide ballast went out. Either way, it’s definitely not helping the situation. Thankfully, the replacement ballast will be here in 2 days. Today I will change the program back to the original light intensity. The other three corals that continue to look really rough are the Strawberry Shortcake, ARC Master Yoda, and CC Voodoo Majick. The menstrual filaments on the Shortcake are still extremely active though, but it’s super pale. The Voodoo Majick also got really pale at the base, but the top looks better. The Yoda was putting out new growth everywhere, but the entire piece is very pale now. Everything else looks fairly decent for now, but the Goni is back in a tight ball with zero polyps out.
7:56am. P = 0.270 ppm.
5:40pm. KH = 8.8, P = 0.233, N = 13.8. Phos -N dose increased (trying to keep P about 0.25ppm with Dino’s present and dry stressed pale corals). All elements corrected and some reduced/increased per ICP-MS results. Changed CO2 absorption media. Acropora Florida continues to STN. Will trash it soon. Sorry Chris! One of the two frags has started to STN (of course). The other probably isn’t far behind, but it was worth a try. Ran GAC for 45 minutes just to see if any difference in PE with Goni or other corals.
Wednesday 08/07/24 (Day 11) 8:00am. GAC didn’t seem to make much difference. Will run a little longer next time, but don’t want to strip the water too clean as some corals already looking dry. Trying to keep a higher nutrient environment until things recover. Cyano and Dino’s dominating the system with the rich bioavailable phosphate and instability, but I’ll switch back to a simple Orthophosphate product here soon. Will start a mild Organic Carbon dose again today. Will likely add UV for a short period. Will do another 10% water change tomorrow. Most of the corals looking about the same excluding the Strawberry Shortcake. That piece looks really bad now and is loosing its feeding response. I expect this to be the next one to check out. It’s probably the PAR, but I don’t want to turn it down due to one piece having issues. The ARC Master Yoda and CC Voodoo Majick are very pale, but both seem to be hanging in there for now. The Anemone is still walking and doesn’t look his normal. He’s obviously stressed. The Goni is completely retracted again, maybe the GAC stressed him even with the short duration.
4:17pm. Target fed entire system. Strawberry Shortcake looks bad. Feeding response is still there, but abnormal for that piece. Will probably check out in the next few days. Goni looking better this afternoon. About like it was yesterday. Putting out about one inch of polyps.
5:30pm. KH = 9.2 (new reagent bottle), P = 0.282, N = 13.6. Changed Phosphate source and reduced dose to .06 ppm daily.
7:30pm. Cleaned Wave-Makers and Frag Racks due to increased algae growth from instability, and the previous extremely bioavailable phosphate source. I’m also purposely running nutrients higher to keep the corals happy.
Thursday 08/08/24 (Day 12) 3:24am. Started GAC for 1 hr. Noticed Orange Montipora Setosa starting to STN. Another thing to note is how much color the Rainbow BTA has lost. It came from a starving system, colored up amazingly, and now looks worse than it did when I got it. I’m guessing that some Ivermectin is still leaching from the rocks.
5:30pm. KH = 9.4, P = 0.254, N = 16.2. KH rising despite turning down CaRx 2-3x. It seems that there is some level of Ivermectin that binds to rocks, and is now leaching (I don’t have sand). The anemone and Goni still seem to be moderately affected/irritated even after almost 100% of the water was changed. Some of the corals look better one day and then seem to look worse the next as if they’re being irritated again by some residual leaching from the rocks. This is just a guess, but the Ivermectin definitely seems to stick around, and is not easily removed even after running GAC and performing multiple water changes. I believe the corals, anemone, etc…are having a hard time recovering, because they’re still being affected by a constant residual level in the system. I’ll start UV this evening and will be extremely interested to see how the anemone and Goni look in the morning as UV apparently helps with degradation.
Friday 08/09/24 (Day 13) 7:30am. Metal Halide Ballast replaced. Happy to have full light again.
5:45pm. KH = 9.2, P = 0.212, N = 16.7
7:28pm. 55w UV deployed with Sicce 2.0 pump adjusted to a little less than half open. That’s about 40%. Should allow decent contact time for the medication and Dino’s.
10:23pm. No significant change to Goni PE after approx 3hrs of UV.
Saturday 08/10/24 (Day 14) 12:09am. The unthinkable just happened. I was looking around with a LED flashlight, and can you believe it, I saw two spionid worms (their two tentacles coming out of the dirt tubes). It’s been 14 days! I was looking hard daily, and haven’t seen anything until this morning. Sadly a few survived. What a bummer. Performed 20% water change.
OP
OP
Thx man! 14 days and counting. Definitely in a fight to keep the tank from crashing.
I’ve never had anything linger this long, and nobody seems to have reported this in previous treatments.
Dburr1014
10K Club member
I would put the GAC on, that might be your saving grace.
What is the worse that happens? No3 depletes some? It won't pull po4. Maybe from the water but you do have the rock Reservoir. Even for a couple days at a time.
What is the worse that happens? No3 depletes some? It won't pull po4. Maybe from the water but you do have the rock Reservoir. Even for a couple days at a time.
JCOLE
Grower of the Small Polyps
I just don't think Ivermectin is a good choice for in-tank treatment. A dip, sure, but a whole tank? Then you have to question if the frag you dip is going to introduce Ivermectin into the system.
Although the tests have not been a win, I do think there is one more experiment to be done for in-tank treatment. Maybe we are all looking at it wrong. We are looking at a full-strength dosage for a day or two of treatment. What if instead, this should be microdosed over a longer period of time? Say 1 mL per 100 gallons daily for a month or two. Something light enough to not affect the fish, etc., but just enough to stress out the snails until they die?
That would be the next test to run in my opinion.
Maybe a small scale temp system to see how they do over a month or two before trying on a full system.
Although the tests have not been a win, I do think there is one more experiment to be done for in-tank treatment. Maybe we are all looking at it wrong. We are looking at a full-strength dosage for a day or two of treatment. What if instead, this should be microdosed over a longer period of time? Say 1 mL per 100 gallons daily for a month or two. Something light enough to not affect the fish, etc., but just enough to stress out the snails until they die?
That would be the next test to run in my opinion.
Maybe a small scale temp system to see how they do over a month or two before trying on a full system.
OP
OP
Yeah, probably a good idea to run the Carbon. The corals are getting so stressed though. I keep thinking one more 10-20% water change and things will get better. Nope! It just keeps leaching out.
That potent 15mL to 100/G dose is bound in the rocks. It’s in my Calcium Reactor media, and also my second chamber which is Geo Marine CaribSea Aragonite. I wanted that to happen going in to make sure everything died, but now I wish I would have shut my reactor down and only ran Kalk. The water changes pull some of the Ivermectin, but it quickly leaches back out. It’s literally the devil.
To add to the frustration, I thought I was running UV, and realized the bulb was off. I checked it and got it to come back on. Then checked it again 30 minutes later and it’s off again. Fixed it and 15 minutes later it’s off again. So the bulb is apparently bad. I have two new bulbs arriving tomorrow.
A lot of the affected corals are browning out, and some of the corals that were looking good are starting to pale. Seems like the water changes make things worse rather than better. I think I’ll focus more on running GAC and UV.
OP
OP
We knew that going in, but what we underestimated was the potency.
I haven’t had any problems with that. I’ve dipped a ton of frags and rinsed very well. If anything got in, it was very little and had no effect.
For sure, but at much lower dose.
Exactly. I’m thinking like 1mL per 100/G also. Maybe even 0.5mL. Leave it in for an extended period of time. 2-3 mL would be absolute max for me.
I’d never do it again unless I figured out how to effectively remove it from the system quickly. More time needs to be spent on how to do that vs the actual dose strength itself. Plus, if you have sand or CaRx media, it will likely complicate things further.
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