Red Sea Tank Failures...

[Reaper_Six_Four]

Front pane failure..​

This is a long post but I think it may be helpful in preventing failures

Let's talk about it. I recently purchased a 350 G2. I didn't care to do much research on it since I figured, all tanks with the exception of draining systems, weirs were created equal. After it was delivered I was pretty stoked, but that was short lived. After posting some pics online I was made aware of what seems like a widespread front pane failure (although you only hear about the problems). While I do understand most all RS tanks don’t fail… the possibility of this one failing terrifies me. Tbh, I would NOT have purchased this tank had I known about this potential problem, something this expensive should NOT fail in this manner.

So here lies my question, specifically to RS tank owners and definitely towards those owners whose tank failed.

1. How long have you owned your tank? If it failed, how did it fail and how long after owning it.
2. Was this tank purchased from a retailer, or was it preowned? Did it sit around for a period of time before setting it up and filling it?
3. What in your opinion was the cause of the failure?
4. Did you reach out to RS? Did they provide a probable cause?

I see posts where the cause is said to be user error. Some due to stand not being level, others due to the front pane overhanging excessively.

Here’s my take on this. Tank not being set up level can probably be chalked up as user error although I’d like to understand the dynamics/forces behind the theories. However, the excessive overhang. I’m not convinced that to be user error, at all.. While assembling the stand, I never once saw and instructions on exactly where on the stand the tank should sit. Conventional thinking (and I agree with this), is that the tanks should 100% be supported by the stand. That is not possible with these tanks and stand as they are designed to have some overhang but not known how much. If we know that the failure mode of the pane and silicone degrading is due to a lack of support due to tank placement and there is no caution or anything instructions indicating the criticality and implications of not placing the tank on the correct spot, them RS is 100% to blame, if this is a known cause of the failure.



I’d like to get thoughts and theories on what everyone thinks the root cause of failure is. I don’t think any theory is farfetched, but would like to know what rationale is being used to ascertain such theory? I hope this conversation will yield a conversation that will hopefully prevent or mitigate future failures, especially if it is a preventable one.



Sorry for the long-winded post, but thank you for your input

 

[Mark Goode]

Mine hasn't collapsed yet, but I think for what we pay for these things Red Sea could perhaps provide better user instructions. The few pages of pictures provided contain no information about what these 'user errors' may be, or how to avoid them.

 

[exnisstech]

I remember reading an article from redsea that said something about the stand needing a center support in the front. Not having it cause the stand to be weak in the center so it did not support the front center of the tank and this is the cause of the failures. I'm going from memory so don't take me word for word. It's been a while and I can't find the article. It may have even been the larger tanks?

 

[Reaper_Six_Four]

I remember reading an article from redsea that said something about the stand needing a center support in the front. Not having it cause the stand to be weak in the center so it did not support the front center of the tank and this is the cause of the failures. I'm going from memory so don't take me word for word. It's been a while and I can't find the article. It may have even been the larger tank

It looks like G2s stand design may have address the issue

 

[ekandler]

I have a reefer 350 (older model) and have never had any trouble. Probably 3 years into it now, had a Max E 260 before that for a few years and never had issues with that tank either.

you do see a lot of hate for Red Sea online, but it seems thats because Red Sea attracts a lot of first tank buyers because of their advertising, and then because of the hobbyists lack of experience they don’t care for it as they should because they don’t have the experience, Cleaning glass up to the seam with a razor or scraping seams or not having the tank level when you set it up. That kinda stuff.

I also think in terms of relative volume Red Sea sells significantly more than other companies, so the food still Far outweighs the bad, it’s just a larger volume of bad.

 

[ekandler]

Also, on my old Reefer 350 I was shocked when I put the tank on the stand and the front pane hangs over the stand. Very odd. but still, never had an issue as a result of it.

 

[Tamberav]

Having seen enough posts if their tanks failing on Facebook (not just from the brace issue) and the posts being deleted and just their overall response. It definitely would give me pause about buying one in the future.

I had one of their smaller modules and ofc it didn’t leak since it was a nano. I can’t say I was super impressed for the price.

 

[Floyd-]

I have a Max S-650 that I bought second hand. Previous owner had it for 2 years and im not going on 2 years without issues. Keep in mind that this tank has euro braces and extra braces on the bottom. The typical reefer tanks IMO lack support.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Pretty sure Amanda gets a commission on the amount prevented by warranty denial claims

 

[jDoSe]

From my understanding:
The seams on the g1 were too thin and poorly designed. It was too easy to use a scraper and go right through the silicone. It also put a lot of pressure on the minimal surface area of the silicone between the panes, even if you didn’t nick it with a scraper. Unlike other tanks, they didn't use any (significant) silicone on the inside of the tank; only between the panes. Probably to make the black borders look as thin as possible. Other tanks, like the IM tanks, put silicone in-between the panes, then additional silicone on the inside of the tank. It makes the seam look thicker, but makes it much more robust.

In the G2, they not only added silicone in the tank (not just between the panes), but also added “plastic armor” to the seam.

The G2 also has thicker glass, so more surface area for the silicone.

They made these changes because they know they (massively) screwed up with the g1.

For the larger tanks, the g2 also supports the front overhanging panel with aluminum in the stand.

Old g1 seam:

New g2 seam (beginning of video):



All that being said though…the tank definitely improved, but the company did not. Their warranty and customer service is still the same. Personally, I wouldn’t do business with them or support them in any way again, but that is for you to decide.

 

[Lavey29]

Simply the best. Love it

How many million units sold now?

 

[Blue Cheese]

Their fixes sound great-when I called the redsea customer service number everyday for a week without a call back because no one answered the phone while the email submission said they’d reply within 24-48 hours that didn’t happen on the first two tickets when Amanda finally replied with our tanks don’t fail and if I would like to purchase a tank only for 3800 plus 600$ shipping it was that moment I realized it doesn’t matter to me the quality of the product weather good or bad,it’s when or if a fail happens what kind of company do you want standing there when it happens…………that’s my experience and I wont risk another 10k to redsea weather they have a good product or not

 

[zoaprince]

Most of the leaks/busts happen with the front panel. Red Sea fanboys will say it doesn't matter that it floats because of blah blah blah, but the reality is glass is heavy and gravity exists. If the silicone is crappy that panel will slip down eventually but the fanboys love to blame the user.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

I remember reading an article from redsea that said something about the stand needing a center support in the front. Not having it cause the stand to be weak in the center so it did not support the front center of the tank and this is the cause of the failures. I'm going from memory so don't take me word for word. It's been a while and I can't find the article. It may have even been the larger tanks?

This. My xxl750 V3 has the center brace between the two doors on the left side. There is a double wall wood brace between the sump cabinet and the electronics cabinet, and in the middle of the sump cabinet the V3 design added the extruded aluminum vertical support. The V3 also added a metal front angle aluminum peice to fully support the front glass instead of having a floating front glass. My 750 has been set up for 7 months and have not had any issues with it.

 

[Reaper_Six_Four]

Most of the leaks/busts happen with the front panel. Red Sea fanboys will say it doesn't matter that it floats because of blah blah blah, but the reality is glass is heavy and gravity exists. If the silicone is crappy that panel will slip down eventually but the fanboys love to blame the user.

Yeah, I fail to completely understand end user’s fault on this. I think companies have enough data to identify failure modes and determine root cause driving remedial action and prevention.

 

[piranhaman00]

Never would buy a Red Sea, or any rimless actually

 

[JaimeAdams]

My 750XXL did leak from the middle of the front panel at the bottom. They did "fix" this problem, but not until after I was out of warranty and out of luck on a very expensive mistake.
We have a 170 as store display in the LFS that I run. The top and back panel did separate after maybe 3 years or so also out of warranty and they did offer to sell me a new tank. In that instance I bought an entire replacement setup used for the same price that the tank was going to cost shipped.
I have installed a couple of the new G2s and they do see better.

 

[MichaelReefer]

I have a 525XL- Purchased it just over two years ago. Have no bubbles or separation in adhesive *knock on wood*

 

[Tamberav]

Cade looks nice

 

[Tenecor Aquariums]

Can you guys post some pics of these issues?