Red Sea Tank Fails, AGAIN! Any Recommendations?

[Lavey29]

So I will tell you this much, I m sure you already noticed that maturing a saltwater tank, especially a reef ecosystem, takes a LOT of time and dedication. Depending on the corals you have, high flow with strong pumps is not only a possibility but a requirement. The truth is that we will not see that evidence unless RS is forced to show it in court. Not everyone comes here and posts about their issue and not everyone classifies the post correctly. I will say this much tho, living in Miami I have a lot of local stores that stock RS tanks. The overwhelming majority of these stores confirmed that the 525 and 750 tanks definitely have issues with the front seams breaking. One of them told me they had a long list of owners that were complaining to them. They are advising me to downgrade to a smaller tank or go to WB.

It would not be hard to initiate litigation if desired due to someone's misfortune with their tank. There is enough supporting evidence via these forums right to establish a pattern? But I agree only RS knows all the info such as how many units they have sold and how many have been reported with problems. Then of course it would be prudent to know if user error caused the issue or just a faulty product. I still believe the failure rate is less then 1% and I am currently communicating with RS to try and get more data to share.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Why would they share data with you, Brandon or anybody else and open Pandora’s box? I assume if you get anything it will be a nice ‘nothing to see here‘ response and if you push, a polite letter from their council reminding you of libel laws, enforceable or not.

Any smart company shuts up and says “please have your council contact ours, they will know how to find us” the minute you mention a lawsuit or action.

 

[dmsc2fs]

I believe CDA, “Crystal Dynamics Aquatics,” out of Oceanside California has Double Euro Braced Tanks in low iron glass. There is a black glass brace inside the bottom, which is covered with your gravel, and a brace at the top.

Crystal Dynamics Aquariums.

 

[zoomonster]

Sorry to hear about your predicament. A couple things that were brought up by me and others in similar threads was tank design. Rimless glass tanks look really nice, but IMO are a ticking time bomb in a reef loaded with rock and saltwater especially when the proper thickness of glass is not used, for the tank size, and they are built (with lack of adequate quality control) and shipped by sea from Asia and then trucked around. If you're not going to do a rimmed glass tank, the only alternative IMO is one with proper glass thickness, on all sides, and Euro bracing. Well, there's acrylic but that's another story and I just don't care for them.

I've been considering another tank and not sure who to take a chance on these days even for made in USA. They all seem to have a variety of issues and in many cases poor support. I was considering Waterbox but their track record does not seem to be that much better than RS. Kind of down to IM, Planet Aquariums or Glasscages.

 

[MnFish1]

See post above… they clearly found themselves in a bad spot and acted in their best interest long term. Should they have acted sooner and prevented x number of disasters, or were they reluctantly reacting to protect themselves from other legal action or being preemptive even if failures were only a perception hurting reputation. Only they know.

Yes their best interest was to fix a problem thats what I said? Of course they were reluctantly trying to protect themselves. Just like every other company would do?

 

[MnFish1]

Why would they share data with you, Brandon or anybody else and open Pandora’s box? I assume if you get anything it will be a nice ‘nothing to see here‘ response and if you push, a polite letter from their council reminding you of libel laws, enforceable or not.

Any smart company shuts up and says “please have your council contact ours, they will know how to find us” the minute you mention a lawsuit or action.

Lets put it this way - when the issue came up - with the paper fitting underneath the middle of the tank - I called RedSea - they gave me the story - and said they were putting out a fix - which they did. Why would they not? They are only liable if a tank breaks - right (I'm not a lawyer). If there was a problem of course they would admit it and try to prevent more - just like they did previously? Why wouldn't they?

 

[killer2001]

The thing that bothers me with the Red Sea tanks is that the front panel hangs over the stand, so there is no bottom support on that pane of glass. Maybe just a coincidence that only the front panels are failing, but if I was Red Sea, I'd redesign the stand so that all glass panels are resting on a flat surface with no overhang.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Lets put it this way - when the issue came up - with the paper fitting underneath the middle of the tank - I called RedSea - they gave me the story - and said they were putting out a fix - which they did. Why would they not? They are only liable if a tank breaks - right (I'm not a lawyer). If there was a problem of course they would admit it and try to prevent more - just like they did previously? Why wouldn't they?

Why would they not? Because admitting a problem opens a pandora’s box of liability, often large enough to sink a company. The gamble is not admitting and hoping the storm clouds blow over by dumb luck or by evasion or by some other means. Happens day in and day with products in every vertical. Some companies navigate it well, others run the ragged edge until a class action buries them.

We do‘t often known until the dust settles.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The thing that bothers me with the Red Sea tanks is that the front panel hangs over the stand, so there is no bottom support on that pane of glass. Maybe just a coincidence that only the front panels are failing, but if I was Red Sea, I'd redesign the stand so that all glass panels are resting on a flat surface with no overhang.

I did not realize this. That is a significant issue where the peel strength becomes significant as opposed to predominately shear strength on a support joint. The weight of the panel is being pulled downward by gravity and the joint must handle stress in the vertical, as well as resist deflectiof the bottom panel on an imperfect stand.

 

[piranhaman00]

Wow it almost seems unreal at this point. I don’t get the appeal of rimless and you get the bonus factor of leak waiting to happen.

 

[paulgriffin971]

Consider this: RS's main selling point is that everything they sell will all integrate into THEIR tank systems.

It's like everything was going fine for a while, and then within a span of so many months, a substantial amount of their tanks start blowing out. Does the company send out old tanks just to shut up customers with warranty claims and have the problems just repeat, or does it send out the Version 2 of their tanks to customers that have warranty claims? What about all of the customers that have found out that they're not the only ones with the EXACT same issues? (Thanks R2R) I can understand where RS might be in a real delima right now...

I am not here to talk bad about them behind their back. I am in contact with them and with my lawyers as we speak. But as you all have seen, I have two tanks blown out and both occurred during a warranty period where a new version of a tank with a known design flaw was substantially re-designed, reinforced, and the cabinets converted to aluminum vs. the painted particle board. I've already dealt with faulty sump sealant, as well as other shoddy materials on the tanks not even two months ago. Yessa--I'm upset.

If we're were talking about a car, and we pretty much are in terms of dollars invested, the company would have already issued recalls. \Why is it all of us dealing one way with our warranty claims when the company KNOWS there's is and has been an issue? Seems an approriate approach would be to tap that company insurance and warranty backing to keep doing business while the "old" customers are taken care of and our tanks are replaced with something that equates to the price we originally paid.

 

[Cell]

Not sure I agree with the front panel overhang being an issue. It's a pretty common design for rimless tanks that other companies also use and doesnt seem to be a major issue for others outside of RS.

 

[paulgriffin971]

one has to wonder if the glass panels could be sort of "etched" before the sealant is applied. Like you would sand a board before you painted it to make sure the paint had a rough surface to stick to. Seems some sort of laser etching would help reinforce the sealant. But then again, their bigger tanks now have an additional layer of glass glued along the insude bottom of the tank, as well as euro-bracing at the top. Along with aluminum braced stands. But some sort of etching might help even more right?

 

[ScubaFish802]

The part that has baffled me with this issue is the fact that they would come out with doser-controller-ATO- Fleece filter units and more.
How about perfecting your tanks and stick money into quality and improvement before new product development?

With all due respect to you Vetteguy, I beleive that was Red Sea's intention by releasing the updated 'G2' models where all areas that have been pointed as faults in design have seemingly been overhauled or beefed up.
It is also worth noting all of the threads that keep getting the fire drill here except for one are the older non-updated line which has had problems reported for years and years now.
It seems if we read between the lines Red Sea realized there was an issue and has indeed attempted to correct it rather recently with the latest versions (of course they will never openly admit this due to various business and legal reasons). There is such an urgency by some posters here to jump to burning the Red Sea witches that there isnt even a true understanding of the current state of the tank lines and versions or what has or has not been addressed by Red Sea.

 

[vetteguy53081]

With all due respect to you Vetteguy, I beleive that was Red Sea's intention by releasing the updated 'G2' models where all areas that have been pointed as faults in design have seemingly been overhauled or beefed up.
It is also worth noting all of the threads that keep getting the fire drill here except for one are the older non-updated line which has had problems reported for years and years now.
It seems if we read between the lines Red Sea realized there was an issue and has indeed attempted to correct it rather recently with the latest versions (of course they will never openly admit this due to various business and legal reasons). There is such an urgency by some posters here to jump to burning the Red Sea witches that there isnt even a true understanding of the current state of the tank lines and versions or what has or has not been addressed by Red Sea.

You are correct with the G2 tanks.
I used past tense BaffleD. Back then, they came out with new products and never addressed the issue with tanks. At the time this was occurring, I was an LFS retailer and already experiencing the problems with Marineland tank issues and was not about to inherit the next nightmare.

 

[Kedron1977]

My very next aquarium will be a AQUAFOREST... I have a red sea 425xl g2 and these post give me concern

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Every tank regardless of materials should be properly supported by the stand design. For acrylic and rimless glass I believe it should be support of the entire bottom without exception. Overhanging a front panel increases the shear stress on the front seam. Silicone is not great at preventing shear stress as it eventually releases the bond. We work with silicone every day and have to remove items that are siliconed. All it takes is steady pressure and you can separate the mechanical bond.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Every tank regardless of materials should be properly supported by the stand design. For acrylic and rimless glass I believe it should be support of the entire bottom without exception. Overhanging a front panel increases the shear stress on the front seam. Silicone is not great at preventing shear stress as it eventually releases the bond. We work with silicone every day and have to remove items that are siliconed. All it takes is steady pressure and you can separate the mechanical bond.

The shear does not appear to be causing a tensile failure, but rather a peeling failure. Silicone does not have good peel strength characteristics. But yes, the weight of the unsupported pain is a problem and a challenging design choice.

 

[piranhaman00]

Water box aquariums hang off the edge too if I remember correctly. The first time I saw that I couldn’t believe it. Why not just make the stand the full length?

 

[killer2001]

Not sure I agree with the front panel overhang being an issue. It's a pretty common design for rimless tanks that other companies also use and doesnt seem to be a major issue for others outside of RS.

There in lies the problem. Perhaps Red Sea's method of applying the front panel / materials involved are not suitable for the overhang design. I'd bet a large sum of money if you purchased one of their tanks new with this design flaw but put it on a proper stand with all panes supported, in 3 years time it would be just fine.