All for Reef!!! Excited to make the change! What say you?

[Necrodaemus]

Can you share your ICP. Thx!

Sure!
This was back in March. I’m doing them every 6 months and getting ready to send another one in.

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lab.atiaquaristik.com

 

[Reefahholic]

Sure!
This was back in March. I’m doing them every 6 months and getting ready to send another one in.

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lab.atiaquaristik.com

I don’t know if I would define that as everything is where it should be.

Send the ICP-MS next time, and let’s see where all the ultra trace are at.

 

[Necrodaemus]

I don’t know if I would define that as everything is where it should be.

Send the ICP-MS next time, and let’s see where all the ultra trace are at.

I don’t do the moonshine program, therefore I’m not dosing 20 different elements, daily, weekly, monthly etc. All I do know is that my corals look great and seem to be thriving…growing great and presenting color as I’d expect them to.

 

[rishma]

I don’t do the moonshine program, therefore I’m not dosing 20 different elements, daily, weekly, monthly etc. All I do know is that my corals look great and seem to be thriving…growing great and presenting color as I’d expect them to.

Don’t let good results distract you from the real hobby…water chemistry!

 

[Reefahholic]

Don’t let good results distract you from the real hobby…water chemistry!

Yes, ignore water chemistry and your system will thrive.

 

[Dburr1014]

If you’re not adding them in sufficient quantities, what’s the point.? A lot of them are gone within 24-48 hrs. We need to make sure the dose that’s being added is not only enough to keep them detectable, but also in a decent target range.

Clarify please.

I thought the point was to dose daily. If an element is gone in 24 hours, well, you had just dosed again.
I just want to understand your point.

 

[Barks]

I switched to using all for reef with my new tank from 2 part after my Red Sea seal went 2 months ago that’s another story.
I can only say I’m finally growing sps and my tank is full. HOWEVER there is a delay of about 3 days after you increase it which is really worrying. There website recommends for my 434 litre tank I should be dosing 21.7ml per day. I’ve been dosing 56ml per day to keep alk stable however more sps has taken off and I dropped 0.5 dkh yesterday so I have to increase it but there’s a delay so it will drop further.
All I can do is increase it. I have to guess what to increase it to. My guess is now 72ml per day and I have to correct it with alk over 24 hours.
Barks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I switched to using all for reef with my new tank from 2 part after my Red Sea seal went 2 months ago that’s another story.
I can only say I’m finally growing sps and my tank is full. HOWEVER there is a delay of about 3 days after you increase it which is really worrying. There website recommends for my 434 litre tank I should be dosing 21.7ml per day. I’ve been dosing 56ml per day to keep alk stable however more sps has taken off and I dropped 0.5 dkh yesterday so I have to increase it but there’s a delay so it will drop further.
All I can do is increase it. I have to guess what to increase it to. My guess is now 72ml per day and I have to correct it with alk over 24 hours.
Barks

Yes, just go slow with the additions. The lag time will likely shorten up as you use it more and build up the few microorganisms that consume the formate and make it into usable alk.

 

[Barks]

Thanks mr Randy

 

[thedon986]

Yes, just go slow with the additions. The lag time will likely shorten up as you use it more and build up the few microorganisms that consume the formate and make it into usable alk.

There is a Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium product on this calculator. Would that work? Seems like it is all the Balling salts blended together. Or would using the limewater option be better for at least getting one close for adjustments?

It looks like Carbo-Calcium is actually the calcium formate product, but no option on the calculator

Reef Chemistry Calculator

reef.diesyst.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is a Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium product on this calculator. Would that work? Seems like it is all the Balling salts blended together. Or would using the limewater option be better for at least getting one close for adjustments?

It looks like Carbo-Calcium is actually the calcium formate product, but no option on the calculator

Reef Chemistry Calculator

reef.diesyst.com

What exactly do you want to accomplish?

I'm not a fan of TM Biocalcium as it is a dry mix of alk and calcium and needs to dissolve in the tank itself.

Carbo calcium will have identical issues to AFR with respect to the lag.

 

[thedon986]

What exactly do you want to accomplish?

I'm not a fan of TM Biocalcium as it is a dry mix of alk and calcium and needs to dissolve in the tank itself.

Carbo calcium will have identical issues to AFR with respect to the lag.

The other poster was talking about guessing how much to raise his dosage with a large increase in consumption. I thought this could be useful as a guide, at least.

 

[Troylee]

If you need to rely heavily on weekly or biweekly water changes to help it out, or use a salt low in Ca to mitigate a spike, I wouldn’t call that a stand alone approach. It certainly isn’t stand alone are able to keep up in a heavily dominated SPS system.

The only reason I see any water changes is to keep calcium from creeping up.. it is a stand alone product I stand behind my word as I have a heavily sps dominated tank and haven’t been changing water in months and yet it’s growing very well! So well I’m having to trim stuff down cause they’re already fighting for space lol.

 

[Barks]

Just a quick question Randy.
Are the microorganisms that will consume the formate in the water column or just rock and substrate. Ie will uv hinder there development.
Regards
Barks

 

[Troylee]

OK, for you I will retract that statement. MOST users of that product are indeed newbies. But I agree… not all.

I’m a newbie what I miss?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The other poster was talking about guessing how much to raise his dosage with a large increase in consumption. I thought this could be useful as a guide, at least.

OK, I see. One can use a calculator for AFR. If you use the calculator you posted and the entry for Randy's Recipe #1, it slightly overestimates the amount of product needed (by 13%), so is generally close enough.

 

[Dburr1014]

The only reason I see any water changes is to keep calcium from creeping up.. it is a stand alone product I stand behind my word as I have a heavily sps dominated tank and haven’t been changing water in months and yet it’s growing very well! So well I’m having to trim stuff down cause they’re already fighting for space lol.

This may be another reason for myself to switch.
My calcium always seems to run 380~420ish. If it were to creep up more I certainly wouldn't complain.

 

[Treefer32]

I tried all for reef for about 6 months. I found it hard to maintain my alk consumption. I had to dose alk separately and then, I was concerned about calcium, usually I dose alk and calcium in the same quantity. So, then I was supplementing alk and was the calcium enough in all for reef. Thirdly, my corals lost their bright colors. I don't know if the trace elements were not enough or what. But I switched from red sea a, b, c, d trace elements (once a week doses) to dosing all for reef on a doser. Within 3-4 months my corals colors had faded and things just didn't look as healthy.

I switched back to dosing Randy's 3 part and dosing trace elements once a week separately and things returned back to where they were within a few weeks. Growth significantly increased as well. I didn't know how much growth didn't happen in that window on all for reef but more growth was noticable in my corals in the few weeks after stopping all for reef.

Maybe I didn't something wrong, like not dose enough, I don't know. I was afraid of overdosing without knowing the ratios, it was critical to me to manage alk at a stable level and with so many corals I care for, I didn't feel like I had control over anything anymore.

I'm up to dosing 260 ml of alk and 260 ml of calcium per day. Plus some supplemental Kalkwasser. This maintains my alk between 8.4 and 9 daily.

I guess that's the 4th thing. All for reef was cost prohibitive to me. It's extremely expensive compared to my 3 part that I mix separately, even with trace elements added in.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just a quick question Randy.
Are the microorganisms that will consume the formate in the water column or just rock and substrate. Ie will uv hinder there development.
Regards
Barks

I don't think that is established, and TM claims some are in/on the corals itself (which seems speculation to me).

But I expect most are attached to some sort of surface.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tried all for reef for about 6 months. I found it hard to maintain my alk consumption. I had to dose alk separately and then, I was concerned about calcium, usually I dose alk and calcium in the same quantity. So, then I was supplementing alk and was the calcium enough in all for reef. Thirdly, my corals lost their bright colors. I don't know if the trace elements were not enough or what. But I switched from red sea a, b, c, d trace elements (once a week doses) to dosing all for reef on a doser. Within 3-4 months my corals colors had faded and things just didn't look as healthy.

I switched back to dosing Randy's 3 part and dosing trace elements once a week separately and things returned back to where they were within a few weeks. Growth significantly increased as well. I didn't know how much growth didn't happen in that window on all for reef but more growth was noticable in my corals in the few weeks after stopping all for reef.

Maybe I didn't something wrong, like not dose enough, I don't know. I was afraid of overdosing without knowing the ratios, it was critical to me to manage alk at a stable level and with so many corals I care for, I didn't feel like I had control over anything anymore.

I'm up to dosing 260 ml of alk and 260 ml of calcium per day. Plus some supplemental Kalkwasser. This maintains my alk between 8.4 and 9 daily.

I guess that's the 4th thing. All for reef was cost prohibitive to me. It's extremely expensive compared to my 3 part that I mix separately, even with trace elements added in.

I don't know how much it would have mattered for the color issues, but I recommend dosing enough all for Reef to match alk demand, and in your case, that would have been more.