All for Reef!!! Excited to make the change! What say you?

[Troylee]

You shouldn’t be worried about any magic bottles. Dose blindly without testing, and everything “should be” fine. Your source water “should” never have anything bleeding through the filters or any issues. No need to check it!

“After all…10-20 years ago we didn’t have ICP testing or trace elements.” “People had amazing systems without it right.??”


All joking aside….



There’s a huge issue with trying to link reefing today in the same category as reefing 10-20 years ago.

For one…our feed is much more regulated and controlled today. This is because more companies are testing their products and looking at purity and QC. We’re definitely not getting anywhere near the byproducts or impurities we did 10-20 years ago. Some byproducts were undesirable, but others absolutely beneficial for the corals. Today, if you don’t supplement some elements, they won’t be added at all. Other elements will become depleted if not supplemented at the right concentrations. Facts. Back in the day people also used mostly LR. They utilized more calcium reactors with natural coral bones which did bring in some important trace elements. They used better quality light sources (Metal halides, T5’s, etc.). They also didn’t have 5 different types of filtration equipment on their systems, or 3-4 different adsorption medias. Today, many reefers utilize a ton of unnecessary equipment or media before the cycle is even completed. Some of these reefers have already added Chemipure Blue, GAC, GFO, Purigen, Organic Carbon, etc., in the first week.

To try and make the comparison between reefing today, and 15 years ago as if they’re similar is humorous.

Reefers today are stripping their water waaaaaaay to clean, using mostly dry Marco rock, they fail to test, but yet scratch their heads as to why they’re having issues.

Just ignore one element like Potassium! If you let it get down to 325-350 for sure certain species of SPS will STN/RTN.

I can hear it already….
“My SPS are dying!” “Please Help”

I’ll agree with you there but my reefing practices today are the exact same I had 15 years ago and it works! I don’t need any of today’s newest and greatest latest additives and equipment. My tank is solely ran on live rock and a skimmer! It works and the back bone of reefing! People are way too caught up in the fad and blowing money on stuff that isn’t needed! So there’s that! Look at Sunny x tank it’s ran the same way and grows corals faster than any tank out there.

 

[areefer01]

I’ll agree with you there but my reefing practices today are the exact same I had 15 years ago and it works! I don’t need any of today’s newest and greatest latest additives and equipment. My tank is solely ran on live rock and a skimmer! It works and the back bone of reefing! People are way too caught up in the fad and blowing money on stuff that isn’t needed! So there’s that! Look at Sunny x tank it’s ran the same way and grows corals faster than any tank out there.

What? You don't want to blow 50 to 100 USD monthly to tell you what to add to your system and achieve success.

You are such a newb!

 

[Troylee]

What? You don't want to blow 50 to 100 USD monthly to tell you what to add to your system and achieve success.

You are such a newb!

Nah I’m good! My tank is super healthy and grows Sps just fine! Even when I made a bone head mistake and it dumped 20 gallons of kalk I didn’t have a single loss in my tank in fact it kick started lots of new growth with a ph of 9.2 go figure! Haha.

 

[rishma]

I’ll agree with you there but my reefing practices today are the exact same I had 15 years ago and it works! I don’t need any of today’s newest and greatest latest additives and equipment. My tank is solely ran on live rock and a skimmer! It works and the back bone of reefing! People are way too caught up in the fad and blowing money on stuff that isn’t needed! So there’s that! Look at Sunny x tank it’s ran the same way and grows corals faster than any tank out there.

Sunny x is a great example…actually to another extreme. He hardly ever tests anything! I’m a mad scientist compared to him…with a much less impressive tank.

 

[Troylee]

Sunny x is a great example…actually to another extreme. He hardly ever tests anything! I’m a mad scientist compared to him…with a much less impressive tank.

Reefing is only as complicated as you make it… my tank is 16 months old and started from all 1” frags and I have a ton of colonies now, it supported sps from day one because of the little bit of live rock I used from somebody else’s tank to seed all the dry rock I added. My tank is simple.. rocks, skimmer, I top off with kalk and dose all for reef with nothing else but bacto balance and a few drops of zeobak when I think about it. Could my growth be better? Maybe, I don’t know but I feel it’s growing at amazing pace already so why play with it? The last 3 photos you can see my golden rod that’s been in there for 9 months it’s outta control and almost the size of a volley ball!
Even the torches and hammers were a single head a year ago.

 

[exnisstech]

I top off with kalk and dose all for reef with nothing else but bacto balance and a few drops of zeobak when I think about it. Could my growth be better? Maybe, I don’t know

Do you top off with kalk to help with alk and calcium or to help with pH? Asking because my sps tank has really teken off since starting AFR (could be other reasons) and I think maybe at some point I'll have to supplement the AFR. Wishful thinking on my part lol

 

[Troylee]

Do you top off with kalk to help with alk and calcium or to help with pH? Asking because my sps tank has really teken off since starting AFR (could be other reasons) and I think maybe at some point I'll have to supplement the AFR. Wishful thinking on my part lol

I top off with kalk for the added ph benefit and to save some coin on all for reef as I’m already dosing 60-100ml daily of all for reef. Without kalk I’d be around 200+ ml daily of all for reef.. down fall to this is I don’t get my trace elements fully replenished by all for reef cause of the kalk, which I’m fine with… for me personally I feed my fish a lot and I change water when I can to keep them replenished.. I don’t bother to test them “trace elements” as I don’t think they’re that important honestly. Ive never ran into the issues that people have or believe they have cause the read something or don’t think the corals are growing like they should! It’s all patience! Let the tank grow and it will!


Just to add to this.
Photoshop is one of the worst things that has created this nonsense and people believe dosing this element or that element will bring out more color blah blah blah… that’s not true.. over all heath of your corals? Possibly, but I don’t know and don’t really care to find out! Haha.. my corals are healthy enough for me and don’t let me down.

 

[exnisstech]

I top off with kalk for the added ph benefit and to save some coin on all for reef as I’m already dosing 60-100ml daily of all for reef. Without kalk I’d be around 200+ ml daily of all for reef.. down fall to this is I don’t get my trace elements fully replenished by all for reef cause of the kalk, which I’m fine with… for me personally I feed my fish a lot and I change water when I can to keep them replenished.. I don’t bother to test them “trace elements” as I don’t think they’re that important honestly. Ive never ran into the issues that people have or believe they have cause the read something or don’t think the corals are growing like they should! It’s all patience! Let the tank grow and it will!


Just to add to this.
Photoshop is one of the worst things that has created this nonsense and people believe dosing this element or that element will bring out more color blah blah blah… that’s not true.. over all heath of your corals? Possibly, but I don’t know and don’t really care to find out! Haha.. my corals are healthy enough for me and don’t let me down.

Agreed. I like to keep things simple. I think for some water chemistry becomes a hobby within a hobby which is fine but not for me.

 

[Troylee]

Agreed. I like to keep things simple. I think for some water chemistry becomes a hobby within a hobby which is fine but not for me.

Exactly! I get a headache trying to decipher most of Randy’s posts.. it’s just not my cup of tea! I know the numbers “I love math” and I know what products to use to achieve said numbers and it’s really that simple.

 

[GARRIGA]

In a hobby where complicating everything seems always in bode, I’m appreciating everything that simplifies. Quest for perfect never been my thing and AFR fits my mantra perfectly enough.

All for reef. Not for all. Just those seeking simplicity in reefing. Perhaps rebrand it

“Simple Reef”

 

[14A]

This is my ICP. The Si is from my dosing. I’ve been using AFR and Kalkwasser since the beginning of my tank (my first one, yep, I’m a newbie)

We don’t have ICP MS over here

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

I loved the convenience but it depressed my pH and reduced my phosphate/nitrates so moved on, using ATI Essential Pro

 

[areefer01]

I loved the convenience but it depressed my pH and reduced my phosphate/nitrates so moved on, using ATI Essential Pro

Interesting. I've never seen either ph suppression nor lower phosphate or nitrates. Then again I have an over abundance of nitrate and phosphate. But never noticed it lowered as a result of AFR and I dose between 90 and 100 ml/day.

 

[Frags 2 Fishes]

AFR is my go-to recommendation for new customer starting off with dosing. It simplifies keeping parameters where they should be and is easy enough to explain to beginner reefers.

I have a 375 gallon display at the shop we just started adding corals to and I am blowing through the AFR on that tank. I eventually plan to replace with a calcium reactor but I find for smaller or new systems it is great to keep corals alive and healthy without being overwhelmed.

In most of our other systems and on the farm we run a combination of Bionic 5 gallon buckets of 2 part and calcium reactor/kalk combos.

 

[Troylee]

AFR is my go-to recommendation for new customer starting off with dosing. It simplifies keeping parameters where they should be and is easy enough to explain to beginner reefers.

I have a 375 gallon display at the shop we just started adding corals to and I am blowing through the AFR on that tank. I eventually plan to replace with a calcium reactor but I find for smaller or new systems it is great to keep corals alive and healthy without being overwhelmed.

In most of our other systems and on the farm we run a combination of Bionic 5 gallon buckets of 2 part and calcium reactor/kalk combos.

I use kalk and all for reef for that reason on my 300…

 

[areefer01]

AFR is my go-to recommendation for new customer starting off with dosing. It simplifies keeping parameters where they should be and is easy enough to explain to beginner reefers.

I have a 375 gallon display at the shop we just started adding corals to and I am blowing through the AFR on that tank. I eventually plan to replace with a calcium reactor but I find for smaller or new systems it is great to keep corals alive and healthy without being overwhelmed.

In most of our other systems and on the farm we run a combination of Bionic 5 gallon buckets of 2 part and calcium reactor/kalk combos.

I believe if you are a premium Tropic Marin client or whatever they call it you can get the large buckets. Reach out to Lou at Tropic Marin.

 

[Frags 2 Fishes]

I believe if you are a premium Tropic Marin client or whatever they call it you can get the large buckets. Reach out to Lou at Tropic Marin.

Good idea, I will have to look into that. I planned to make up 20L batches for the larger tank using two of the large jars to do so but a bucket would make more sense.

I use kalk and all for reef for that reason on my 300…

The trouble I have with the big tank right now is I have glass lids on it to keep the jumpers in. I am having some screen tops made and hopefully that will help with increasing evaporation as the sump is often hitting the high level sensor and shuts off the kalk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interesting. I've never seen either ph suppression nor lower phosphate or nitrates. Then again I have an over abundance of nitrate and phosphate. But never noticed it lowered as a result of AFR and I dose between 90 and 100 ml/day.

It has an identical pH effect as using bicarbonate for alk. How large of an overall pH effect that ends up being depends on dose and how extensive is aeration.

The net effect of AFR or bicarbonate dosing and calcification is a pH lowering.

The net effect of carbonate dosing and calcification is pH neutral (even though it seems like a boost when added).

The net effect of hydroxide dosing and calcification is a pH boost.

 

[rishma]

It has an identical pH effect as using bicarbonate for alk. How large of an overall pH effect that ends up being depends on dose and how extensive is aeration.

The net effect of AFR or bicarbonate dosing and calcification is a pH lowering.

The net effect of carbonate dosing and calcification is pH neutral (even though it seems like a boost when added).

The net effect of hydroxide dosing and calcification is a pH boost.

Interesting. I see a slight pH drop when dosing AFR, but assumed it was from the carbon source. That said, the carbon dose that comes with AFR never had a noticeable impact on nutrients so the bicarbonate explanation makes sense. I am pretty successful at counteracting the pH drop with a small kalk dose spaced out right after the AFR dose. I’m not sure if that helps anything in the tank but makes me feel better.

 

[14A]

Interesting. I see a slight pH drop when dosing AFR, but assumed it was from the carbon source. That said, the carbon dose that comes with AFR never had a noticeable impact on nutrients so the bicarbonate explanation makes sense. I am pretty successful at counteracting the pH drop with a small kalk dose spaced out right after the AFR dose. I’m not sure if that helps anything in the tank but makes me feel better.

For me it got slightly more expensive .

I thought that by adding kalkwasser I'd be able to save some money. I think that the effect of the pH boost on calcification was higher than expected.