1% Ivermectin (in-tank) Treatment for Coral Boring Spionid Worms

[Reefahholic]

Where you gonna find that in a bottle tho?

Yeah, don’t think I’ll find that anywhere!

I just setup a temporary stand for an untouched 40/B in my garage. I probably won’t even plumb it. I’ll just throw a Aquaclear HOB on it, some air-stones, and a heater. Mount three Radion XR15’s above it. I ordered 10lbs of KP Aquatics LR to kick it off. Will ship next Tuesday for Wednesday delivery. Then I’ll quickly cycle the tank and start the process of moving frags and cutting corals off the scape so that I can hopefully save the majority of the corals and get them out of the toxic environment they’re in now. I want to start the recovery process, and see if I can color them up again. I was fragging the tank a lot before the treatment trying to keep it manicured to keep some corals from stinging each other, but also sold about 2K+ $$ Fragz locally, because I needed some groceries, but here’s a pic of the system before the treatment just after I dropped the power filters in.

I think I’ll completely shut this tank down and give it a acid bath, then vinegar, rinse it out really well, run some carbon, fill it back up, change the calcium reactor media, and cycle it again using 40-60lbs of KP LR, but also build another custom scape with maybe AF or Caribsea rock using Cyanoacrylate water-thin super glue, aragonite sand, E-Marco Mortar, and some DIY Portland cement pegged disks for every single acro. It will be a little process, but hopefully the corals aren’t too far gone to where they can’t recover. In the meantime, hopefully everything will fit in the 40B.

 

[Reefahholic]

Couple older pics:

 

[Reefahholic]

I’ll get a piece of plywood on this top deck tonight and move the 40B on the stand.

 

[Minifoot77]

Ever thought about the Marco mortar as diy frag plugs/disks

 

[Reefahholic]

Ever thought about the Marco mortar as diy frag plugs/disks

Not really, but it should work. I know the Portland cement is the preferred reef safe cement because of its purity and we know what’s in it. Once it’s cured, it won’t leach anything into the system.

The other Hydraulic Quikrete some guys are using works, but it’s not as pure.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’m thinking something fat and elevated like this on top of a large disk should keep the corals at bay and allow easy removal for dips.

 

[JPK]

Hi all, I have been following along since I have been dealing with Spionid worms for a while on my systems (about 250 gallons). Over the last couple of months I have removed most of my sps colonies, cut off the bases, dipped them in ivermectin and then reattached them to 4” frag plates. I have a few larger colonies that I haven’t removed yet, but I would say 95% of my coral, including frags, have been dipped with no sign of the worms returning (yet) and zero loses.

My rock structure has quite a few Spionids under overhangs and in the remnants of the sps base portions that remained on the rocks when I cut off the colonies.

My thought was I would remove the rock structures from the tank, clip off the remaining coral, remove any inverts, etc put the rocks in large Rubbermaid trough with ivermectin for a an hour, remove them, drain and clean the Rubbermaid, then refill with water and carbon and let that run for a few days, maybe swap the water out a few times.

reading through this thread however is giving me second thoughts.

@Dburr1014 when you did your tank switcheroo, how large were the rocks you dipped, did you dip all your rocks?

@Reefahholic I really appreciate you putting all this info together

 

[Dburr1014]

My thought was I would remove the rock structures from the tank, clip off the remaining coral, remove any inverts, etc put the rocks in large Rubbermaid trough with ivermectin for a an hour, remove them, drain and clean the Rubbermaid, then refill with water and carbon and let that run for a few days, maybe swap the water out a few times.

@Dburr1014 when you did your tank switcheroo, how large were the rocks you dipped, did you dip all your rocks?

I did do all of my rock. Most of my coral were encrusted on the rock. I used 32 gallon brutes.
Here is a picture of the old tank. It's a standard 75 gallon.



I would recommend dipping for an hour as you said then putting in another same size container with GAC. It would take a while to clean the tub. You would have to keep the coral from drying out if it's done this way. I would recommend getting another tub. It can be prefilled with fresh heated water. Or a couple brutes?

If it's going back into the same aquarium, yes, change the water at least once before hand(with more GAC).
Mine went into another bigger system with lots of new salt water to dilute the tiny bit of ivermectin left on the rock/coral. I think this is why I had no problems adding back my snails and inverts so soon.

 

[JPK]

I did do all of my rock. Most of my coral were encrusted on the rock. I used 32 gallon brutes.
Here is a picture of the old tank. It's a standard 75 gallon.



I would recommend dipping for an hour as you said then putting in another same size container with GAC. It would take a while to clean the tub. You would have to keep the coral from drying out if it's done this way. I would recommend getting another tub. It can be prefilled with fresh heated water. Or a couple brutes?

If it's going back into the same aquarium, yes, change the water at least once before hand(with more GAC).
Mine went into another bigger system with lots of new salt water to dilute the tiny bit of ivermectin left on the rock/coral. I think this is why I had no problems adding back my snails and inverts so soon.

Nice tank! Thanks for the explanation and tips. I would remove all corals and other life I wanted to save from the rocks prior to dipping them, that is why I figured I would just remove them and clean the container, maybe allow gravity to pull some of the dip water out of the rocks while they are out of the water. I could use tank water to refill the Rubbermaid, and replace with new water as well in the tank to mimic your success a bit. I don't think I would be in a huge rush. I have quite a bit of rubble and media blocks in my sump. I haven't seen any living in there, but I would dip that rubble rock if everything looks ok after the initial dip just to be sure.

 

[Reefahholic]

Hi all, I have been following along since I have been dealing with Spionid worms for a while on my systems (about 250 gallons). Over the last couple of months I have removed most of my sps colonies, cut off the bases, dipped them in ivermectin and then reattached them to 4” frag plates. I have a few larger colonies that I haven’t removed yet, but I would say 95% of my coral, including frags, have been dipped with no sign of the worms returning (yet) and zero loses.

My rock structure has quite a few Spionids under overhangs and in the remnants of the sps base portions that remained on the rocks when I cut off the colonies.

My thought was I would remove the rock structures from the tank, clip off the remaining coral, remove any inverts, etc put the rocks in large Rubbermaid trough with ivermectin for a an hour, remove them, drain and clean the Rubbermaid, then refill with water and carbon and let that run for a few days, maybe swap the water out a few times.

reading through this thread however is giving me second thoughts.

@Dburr1014 when you did your tank switcheroo, how large were the rocks you dipped, did you dip all your rocks?

@Reefahholic I really appreciate you putting all this info together

That was the original plan I thought about also as I have two islands that are easily removable and bonded very strong with E-Marco 400 Mortar.

However, I decided to treat the entire system as I saw a few that were off the rocks on different objects and surely they are in the sump, overflow, plumbing, etc.

I would avoid treating the whole scape even in a large vat outside the main system. Ivermectin is likely to quickly get distributed throughout the entire aquascape in that hour, and get bound to the rocks. If this was frags, only a small amount would get bound, but an entire aquascape is much different I believe. 1 hour may not be enough time, but it’s a gamble I wouldn’t take after seeing the condition of my system even now. See study data below:

“IVM was quickly and widely distributed into the whole aquatic system in one day, and then was highly accumulated in organisms resulting in long-term residues. IVM was exchanged multiple times between the different media, which caused continuous fluctuations in the concentration of IVM in the water and sediment.”

We really don’t know how quickly this is happening. They say 1 day (could be 1 hr). For doses potent enough or long enough to kill all the worms, it’s just too dangerous to gamble with unless you want to be the first. We don’t know how to effectively remove it yet, but if we did the risk would be much less.

then refill with water and carbon and let that run for a few days, maybe swap the water out a few times.

Water changes, Carbon, UV, etc…have almost zero effect in my system. There must be so much bound to the rocks.

I really appreciate you following along on my journey. I will say that 15mL dose got about 95% of the worms and is approximately 1/2 the dose I use in dips, but since some worms survived, then the best option is to be able to remove and dip frags and colonies since the treatments don’t seem to kill them all. Maybe we will figure this out later, but learning how to remove the medication quickly is key. We have to understand how to accomplish that.

 

[Reefahholic]

I did do all of my rock. Most of my coral were encrusted on the rock. I used 32 gallon brutes.

If it's going back into the same aquarium, yes, change the water at least once before hand(with more GAC).
Mine went into another bigger system with lots of new salt water to dilute the tiny bit of ivermectin left on the rock/coral. I think this is why I had no problems adding back my snails and inverts so soon.

Man, I’m glad you didn’t have issues with treating the whole scape.

What was the dose again? How long did you leave it in? Did any of the worms survive? You don’t have any if the plumbing, sump, or anywhere else in the system? Remember, they get on snails and coralline algae also which my tank was literally covered in on the bottom and back glass before I scraped it.

Maybe a short duration isn’t enough for it to completely distribute into the rocks and get bound.

 

[Reefahholic]

Nice tank! Thanks for the explanation and tips. I would remove all corals and other life I wanted to save from the rocks prior to dipping them, that is why I figured I would just remove them and clean the container, maybe allow gravity to pull some of the dip water out of the rocks while they are out of the water. I could use tank water to refill the Rubbermaid, and replace with new water as well in the tank to mimic your success a bit. I don't think I would be in a huge rush. I have quite a bit of rubble and media blocks in my sump. I haven't seen any living in there, but I would dip that rubble rock if everything looks ok after the initial dip just to be sure.

You likely won’t get them all. The water itself probably has microscopic worms already in it. Who knows how these things multiple. They could lay eggs that won’t be affected. I believe some of mine retreated deep into the coral skeleton.

I think the best course of action is being able to remove the corals for short dips. Doing it this way always gives you control, and they can stay in the system. No need to worry about keeping every single pest out which is nearly impossible. Not only that, but you will also have control over AEFW or other bugs such as Red, White, Black, Grey, etc…

See pic below. Even the CUC we add could be introducing them.

 

[Dburr1014]

Man, I’m glad you didn’t have issues with treating the whole scape.

What was the dose again? How long did you leave it in? Did any of the worms survive? You don’t have any if the plumbing, sump, or anywhere else in the system? Remember, they get on snails and coralline algae also which my tank was literally covered in on the bottom and back glass before I scraped it.

Maybe a short duration isn’t enough for it to completely distribute into the rocks and get bound.

12 gallon in the brute with 1.5ml ivermectin .
1 hour, with a pump in the brute.

All my plumbing is new. My Rubbermaid sump is not.

I don't see any on the scape. But, they very well could be in the sump, snails, ect. I will probably have them again, probably just a matter of time. I mostly did this out of convenience of switching tanks.

 

[JPK]

That was the original plan I thought about also as I have two islands that are easily removable and bonded very strong with E-Marco 400 Mortar.

However, I decided to treat the entire system as I saw a few that were off the rocks on different objects and surely they are in the sump, overflow, plumbing, etc.

I would avoid treating the whole scape even in a large vat outside the main system. Ivermectin is likely to quickly get distributed throughout the entire aquascape in that hour, and get bound to the rocks. If this was frags, only a small amount would get bound, but an entire aquascape is much different I believe. 1 hour may not be enough time, but it’s a gamble I wouldn’t take after seeing the condition of my system even now. See study data below:

“IVM was quickly and widely distributed into the whole aquatic system in one day, and then was highly accumulated in organisms resulting in long-term residues. IVM was exchanged multiple times between the different media, which caused continuous fluctuations in the concentration of IVM in the water and sediment.”

We really don’t know how quickly this is happening. They say 1 day (could be 1 hr). For doses potent enough or long enough to kill all the worms, it’s just too dangerous to gamble with unless you want to be the first. We don’t know how to effectively remove it yet, but if we did the risk would be much less.



Water changes, Carbon, UV, etc…have almost zero effect in my system. There must be so much bound to the rocks.

I really appreciate you following along on my journey. I will say that 15mL dose got about 95% of the worms and is approximately 1/2 the dose I use in dips, but since some worms survived, then the best option is to be able to remove and dip frags and colonies since the treatments don’t seem to kill them all. Maybe we will figure this out later, but learning how to remove the medication quickly is key. We have to understand how to accomplish that.

Thanks for the feedback, this tank may be turning into a large frag tank then, I can easily just leave all the sps on plates, but it just looks a little ghetto on my existing scape, the only thing I am worried about (other than not having an aquascape) is how pulling all the established display rock out would impact the tank, I guess I could just slowly do one piece at a time. If I hate it I can always do what you are doing and come up with a better scape design or reset my scape with bleach/acid and drill some holes in it, since I feel it will be hard to eliminate these things 100%.

 

[Dburr1014]

Thanks for the feedback, this tank may be turning into a large frag tank then, I can easily just leave all the sps on plates, but it just looks a little ghetto on my existing scape, the only thing I am worried about (other than not having an aquascape) is how pulling all the established display rock out would impact the tank, I guess I could just slowly do one piece at a time. If I hate it I can always do what you are doing and come up with a better scape design or reset my scape with bleach/acid and drill some holes in it, since I feel it will be hard to eliminate these things 100%.

The only way to 100% keep everything out would be qt. Probably a couple months in QT. You would have to buy coral in batches.

 

[Reefahholic]

12 gallon in the brute with 1.5ml ivermectin .
1 hour, with a pump in the brute.

All my plumbing is new. My Rubbermaid sump is not.

I don't see any on the scape. But, they very well could be in the sump, snails, ect. I will probably have them again, probably just a matter of time. I mostly did this out of convenience of switching tanks.

That’s 0.125mL per gallon. Hopefully that got them. On the weaker side for sure.

I’ve been using 0.32mL per gallon in the dips.

Yeah, it’s just almost impossible to keep some of this stuff out. I’ve literally kept out Bubble Algae, Vermetid, Bryopsis, all Acropora bugs and Flat worms, but for what now? I have to restart the tank. So now I will focus on a system that will eliminate all the headaches of being so anal, and build the framework in a way that allows easy removal of all corals for dips. Pegging is the way to go, and people like TSA, Coral Euphoria, etc…are on the right track. Although Coral Euphoria really didn’t start his pegging method for dipping, for him it was more about the difficulty of mounting larger colonies to the rocks, but he also wants to be able to move corals around and play with colors. Being able to pull and dip was an added side benefit for him. Kevin at TSA on the other hand knew exactly what he was trying to accomplish. My thoughts are inline with his. If you can move or pull any acro, it makes life much easier. Most problems that arise can be easily resolved even if the pest is still in the system.

 

[Reefahholic]

The only way to 100% keep everything out would be qt. Probably a couple months in QT. You would have to buy coral in batches.

Yeah, even then you’ll have to be so anal with everything that you add, that it almost becomes a chore instead of a hobby. Plus…they will likely get in anyway. I’m very anal, but I see too many weaknesses to continue down this path. After you own a microscope for a while you realize just how easy some of these things will get in. All it takes is one spot of coralline algae on that overflow box to have one Spionid worm. Then all the out of tank dipping the scape is pointless because they will just come back. That was one reason I chose to do the in-tank treatment and go for it. Could have paid off huge, but unfortunately not!


Pegging is The future!


Photo Credit: Coral Euphoria

 

[Reefahholic]

Instead of thinking that we need to keep every pest out of the system, what if we shift our mindset a little.

We try to keep most pest out of the system, but also create the system in a way to deal with almost any pest that does get in by creating an infrastructure (if you will) that allows easy access and removal for every coral. Honestly, this is not that hard to accomplish. It’s as simple as creating a aquascape and drilling some 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2” holes and either DIY or buy some plugs, disks, etc that are designed to fit into the pre-drilled holes. @JCOLE did it nicely. He made the actual mounts and plugs with Portland Cement.

 

[Reefahholic]

 

[Reefahholic]

Go to 12:00. Shout out to Kevin for this method. Extremely smart!

Although I’m not a big fan of the PVC, the method itself is excellent.