Tired of AC bricks? Try the DCBuddy

[MikeTheNewbie]

I also do need to dress up the built in web server look and feel since its just a giant dump of all the data (at least its ordered by name!).

Raw data is good, specially if it comes in XML or JSON, that way it can be captured by telegraf and stored in a time series database to monitor trends over time

 

[theatrus]

Raw data is good, specially if it comes in XML or JSON, that way it can be captured by telegraf and stored in a time series database to monitor trends over time

Thanks for reminding me - I do need to enable the Prometheus exporter in the production firmware. I missed that step.

The web front end is a JS/CSS blob and gets the data and posts back settings using JSON.

 

[kenchilada]

Raw data is good, specially if it comes in XML or JSON

JSON please, let XML die

 

[theatrus]

Say someone has wav pumps, using 1Link modules (not eb832 which would require line power, or the previously included 1Link ports), at three wavs per 1Link. I believe (pulling this out of my hat here) each pulls 37 watts max, so say 120 watts total max on a single dc24 port (my scenario would require 2 of your devices 24vdc ports as I’m running 2 1Links and 6 wav pumps). Would your device handle that no problem?

On one port, no, since thats above the 3A recommend (120W/24V=5A) current per port with the assumed numbers.

However, the pumps are likely not actually at that power level. The 1Link/Wav kit for two pumps ship with a 100W supply, so the 120W estimate is over-estimating power draw on the pumps (assuming they are running three). If we say three pumps are 80W peak power (standard 20% margin for a 100W adapter), we could run on one output DC port here no problem.

I don't have a WAV kit to measure, but will grab one since I'm curious myself (though they are showing out of stock)

(The best I can find on the internet is that the WAV says "Low power consumption – Less than 35w at the wall" which is already accounting for some conversion losses in the AC/DC adapter, so pumps may be in the 25W max range)

If it somehow doesn't work, I suspect except for the DC24 accessory ports, the 1Link adapter is purely passive - it just routes 24V to the connectors and connects the CAN bus on 1Link, which means spinning a wiring adapter allowing multiple ports to be used with aquabus is pretty easy.

If so, would a battery work for ac power loss (say only running 2 wavs on low power with the head unit although I think the wavs will continue running on 1Link without head unit comm at whatever the fallback setting is)?

Yes. This requires a bit more research to suggest an ideal implementation. Once I can verify the WAV setup with the 1Link adapter I can confirm the best approach.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

On one port, no, since thats above the 3A recommend (120W/24V=5A) current per port with the assumed numbers.

However, the pumps are likely not actually at that power level. The 1Link/Wav kit for two pumps ship with a 100W supply, so the 120W estimate is over-estimating power draw on the pumps (assuming they are running three). If we say three pumps are 80W peak power (standard 20% margin for a 100W adapter), we could run on one output DC port here no problem.

I don't have a WAV kit to measure, but will grab one since I'm curious myself (though they are showing out of stock)

(The best I can find on the internet is that the WAV says "Low power consumption – Less than 35w at the wall" which is already accounting for some conversion losses in the AC/DC adapter, so pumps may be in the 25W max range)

If it somehow doesn't work, I suspect except for the DC24 accessory ports, the 1Link adapter is purely passive - it just routes 24V to the connectors and connects the CAN bus on 1Link, which means spinning a wiring adapter allowing multiple ports to be used with aquabus is pretty easy.



Yes. This requires a bit more research to suggest an ideal implementation. Once I can verify the WAV setup with the 1Link adapter I can confirm the best approach.

Awesome! Yeah, the wav starter kit standard power supply works perfect with 3 wavs on a single 1Link. So, if it is 100w then it sounds like it’s doable. I had verified (in the past, several years ago) that the wav pumps will run at whatever the fallback setting is with the 1Links powered but disconnected from the aquabus. The only other caveat is if one is also using the 1Link dc24 (linka/linkb) for something like a pump, although it would all still have to fall within the 100w power supply as far as total current draw. I had used them for low draw solenoids at one point but no longer use those ports. Thanks for looking into this…and crazy thanks for grabbing a wsk to try out! Wavs have been out of stock for a couple years….the wsk just recently became available again (for over $500! now) but the individual pumps still aren’t available. They owe me a couple warranty replacements from a year ago, so I’m going to give them a holler.

 

[theatrus]

Awesome! Yeah, the wav starter kit standard power supply works perfect with 3 wavs on a single 1Link. So, if it is 100w then it sounds like it’s doable. I had verified (in the past, several years ago) that the wav pumps will run at whatever the fallback setting is with the 1Links powered but disconnected from the aquabus. The only other caveat is if one is also using the 1Link dc24 (linka/linkb) for something like a pump, although it would all still have to fall within the 100w power supply as far as total current draw. I had used them for low draw solenoids at one point but no longer use those ports. Thanks for looking into this…and crazy thanks for grabbing a wsk to try out! Wavs have been out of stock for a couple years….the wsk just recently became available again (for over $500! now) but the individual pumps still aren’t available. They owe me a couple warranty replacements from a year ago, so I’m going to give them a holler.

Yeah, surprising. I kinda expect them to consolidate their product offerings with the VorTechs since it's all the same company now, but maybe this is a new manufacturing run in a new facility. Will be interesting

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Yeah, surprising. I kinda expect them to consolidate their product offerings with the VorTechs since it's all the same company now, but maybe this is a new manufacturing run in a new facility. Will be interesting

You’re telling me! I thought for sure they were discontinued. I mean they are/were made by sicce and that doesn’t fall within the Bertram/aperture deal I don’t think. I was hoping for a brick less mp style pump with a 1link connector as a Gen 2 offering and was totally surprised by the old style coming back after a two year hiatus!

 

[MikeTheNewbie]

JSON please, let XML die

LOL

 

[theatrus]

Testing the DCBuddy Split (3x 12V ports). No bad news but one derating: while we can peak at 5A on the 12V ports, sustaining it is a problem. 4A is just fine, but 5A + the logic load of the rest of the DCBuddy will thermally trip the buck converter after about 10 minutes. This testing was done with a closed case in a 95F ambient, so a pretty worst case environment.

Also mocked up a new top case which I'm printing off a prototype

Going to continue doing burn-in testing on each board this weekend and doing some packaging and case assembly. First orders should start getting shipment notices in the next few days.

 

[David_CO]

I only see the single voltage version on your website, can I pre-order the split?

 

[theatrus]

I only see the single voltage version on your website, can I pre-order the split?

Not yet, I should be able to post it this weekend.

 

[David_CO]

Not yet, I should be able to post it this weekend.

Cool, I’ll definitely be pre-ordering one once it’s up.

Regarding your hub, are you going to want a 24v battery in conjunction with the 24v meanwell power supply for the dual inputs or is there going to be a buck converter on the battery taking in 12v natively, or am I off base here? Trying to do some pre-planning on my part for a build I have in process.

 

[theatrus]

Cool, I’ll definitely be pre-ordering one once it’s up.

Regarding your hub, are you going to want a 24v battery in conjunction with the 24v meanwell power supply for the dual inputs or is there going to be a buck converter on the battery taking in 12v natively, or am I off base here? Trying to do some pre-planning on my part for a build I have in process.

Two options:

- Hub with 24V battery and BYO charger. There are some downsides as the Hub will pull from the battery until the Meanwell adapter is higher in voltage. May lead to the battery never being fully charged.

- Battery module (Hub not required but supported), which works with a 12V or 24V battery and will handle charging and provide 24V.

 

[theatrus]

I only see the single voltage version on your website, can I pre-order the split?

And posted. Still doing some editing and its clear I need to get a consistent photo setup, but those are problems to solve for later!

 

[RayKCMO]

I'm working on the Hub which support multiple inputs (e.g. an adapter and a battery, two adapters, etc), as well as a battery charger/voltage controller. Its the next product after the Split.

Since you already have that battery situation sorted, the battery module is not required, but the hub will be needed to support two inputs feeding the DCBuddy (or multiple DCBuddies)

As for the Apex, you'll want the upcoming (I have hardware in hand, releasing soon) DCBuddy Split which has dedicated 12V ports (24V in, 24V out on 4 ports, 12V out on 3 ports). The FMM/Aquabus/Apex can run on the 12V side, and the 24V for 1Link devices and other 24V things, which leads to..

As for 1Link, my original prototype (11 pages ago) had dedicated 1Link ports. Current version does not. That said, its worth actually making an adapter to allow a power output port to power up the 1Link bus as a backup when the EB832 can't, and keep the CAN signals. Will add that to my list. Maybe its worth adding to the Hub? Will get back to you as I work through some design problems.

I think its important for me to whip up some Diagrams :tm: of how this all works since its exploding in complexity. And to think the most recent thing I fixed was finding the right boxes to ship the units undergoing testing! (If you're an early order, you might get a recycled Amazon outer box. I'm sorry :-D)

I know just enough to be dangerous. I'm in awe of your abilities. Does this seem like a viable setup?

 

[theatrus]

I know just enough to be dangerous. I'm in awe of your abilities. Does this seem like a viable setup?

The problem with this method is you're pulling power from the battery circuit while charging it. I'm unclear what the charger will do - it may not correctly terminate the charge, time out, etc. It does also cycle the battery more. I'm also unclear if the charger can restart or maintain the battery charge.

Will do some more reading on the Amazon listing to check some assumptions. Often those chargers are "one shot", as in once the charge is terminated it just stops. It does claim "maintainer" but it may not understand a multi-amp constant draw on the battery.

As for the Vectra I assume the 24V is feeding the backup port? Giving a Vectra 24V on the primary or backup port without another power input will put the pump in battery-operated limp mode.

 

[RayKCMO]

The problem with this method is you're pulling power from the battery circuit while charging it. I'm unclear what the charger will do - it may not correctly terminate the charge, time out, etc. It does also cycle the battery more. I'm also unclear if the charger can restart or maintain the battery charge.

Will do some more reading on the Amazon listing to check some assumptions. Often those chargers are "one shot", as in once the charge is terminated it just stops. It does claim "maintainer" but it may not understand a multi-amp constant draw on the battery.

As for the Vectra I assume the 24V is feeding the backup port? Giving a Vectra 24V on the primary or backup port without another power input will put the pump in battery-operated limp mode.

@theatrus - Thanks again for the feedback. Here's the links on Amazon.

24V 100Ah Lifepo4 Lithium Battery 2560W Load Power Batteries Built-in 100A BMS Lithium Batteries 4000+ Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery for Solar,RV,Golf Cart,Off-Grid

HTRC 35-Amp Smart Charger, Car Battery Charger,Trickle Charger, 12V35A/24V18A,14.6V/29.2V,Lithium,LiFePO4,Lead-Acid AGM/Gel/SLA..Battery Charger, PortableMaintainer/deep Cycle Charger and Desulfator

3000 Watt Inverter Pure Sine Wave DC 24V to 110V/120V AC Power Inverters with 2 AC Charger Outlets 6000W Peak Car Solar Converter for Vehicles Home with LCD Display and 2.4A USB Charging Port

AC120V 15Amp Automatic Transfer Switch, ATS Auto Transfer Switch, HD060

Yes, you are correct, the battery is feeding the Vectra battery backup port, which runs at 25% max power. I have 130 gallon tank. I have the Vectra M2 only running at 40%. So reducing to 25% during a power outage is temporary and ok in terms of flow. Same goes for the VorTech MP40's.

I did wonder if it would be a problem drawing from the battery while charging it. It says it has 9 stages of charging.

 

[theatrus]

@theatrus - Thanks again for the feedback. Here's the links on Amazon.

24V 100Ah Lifepo4 Lithium Battery 2560W Load Power Batteries Built-in 100A BMS Lithium Batteries 4000+ Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery for Solar,RV,Golf Cart,Off-Grid

HTRC 35-Amp Smart Charger, Car Battery Charger,Trickle Charger, 12V35A/24V18A,14.6V/29.2V,Lithium,LiFePO4,Lead-Acid AGM/Gel/SLA..Battery Charger, PortableMaintainer/deep Cycle Charger and Desulfator

3000 Watt Inverter Pure Sine Wave DC 24V to 110V/120V AC Power Inverters with 2 AC Charger Outlets 6000W Peak Car Solar Converter for Vehicles Home with LCD Display and 2.4A USB Charging Port

AC120V 15Amp Automatic Transfer Switch, ATS Auto Transfer Switch, HD060

Yes, you are correct, the battery is feeding the Vectra battery backup port, which runs at 25% max power. I have 130 gallon tank. I have the Vectra M2 only running at 40%. So reducing to 25% during a power outage is temporary and ok in terms of flow. Same goes for the VorTech MP40's.

I did wonder if it would be a problem drawing from the battery while charging it. It says it has 9 stages of charging.

My main concern is the battery charger simply won't really work as a power supply and a charger. What this really needs is a DC-side "transfer switch" and a dedicated DC power supply.


I'm not saying it won't work, but we're doing things on the battery side that the charger wasn't really built for, in addition to cycling the battery more than it needs. Ideally an LiFePO4 battery gets a maintenance charge every few days, not like a standard float battery. Its going to take testing to determine what the behavior will be.

 

[ashburn2k]

put down an order for dcbuddy and was wondering when will the order being shipped out?

 

[theatrus]

put down an order for dcbuddy and was wondering when will the order being shipped out?

Handling the first batch this week. The first few boxes hit UPS tomorrow (if you already got a tracking number / shipping notice)

I _think_ you're in batch 1 based on your location, but feel free to DM me to check.