I had an interesting conversation with the Pentair Rep about UV sterilizers in the reef tank

[Gundy]

I have been doing a lot of research on UV sterilizers for my upcoming 350 gallon build. With all the misinformation and lack of information in some cases, I decided to call Pentair UV and get some questions answered. Interestingly, he himself is a long tome reefer and actually has a coral propagation business in Panama and sells all his coral and fish to a wholesaler.
I will Summarize my conversation below:

1- Pentair has spent millions of dollars on independent studies to determine the correct flow and exposure rates on their units. They are a huge company providing all kinds of equipment to treat all kinds of water conditions in many types of water treatment plants. They have have federal approval and licenses that provide scientific proof their units work as advertised.
2- Most UV manufacturers ( according to him) don’t have adequate exposure and flow rates for their UV’s. An example is comparing the Pentair 50 watt unit to the Aqua Ultraviolet 57 watt. The Aqua unit states a minimum flow for Protozoa and bacteria at 1066 GPH and a maximum flow of 3200 GPH for a 355 gallon aquarium. The Pentair 50 watt unit recommends Protozoa and bacteria to have a flow between 260 to 330 GHP for a 330 gallon aquarium. That’s a big difference, with Pentair recommending a flow rate of about 3 times less.
3- The pentair technical advisor indicated that turning over the water in the tank 1 time per hour is a minimum. Many Protozoa and bacteria may not get denatured or killed with only 1 pass through the UV and will most likely need another pass. Therefore, having a UV sterilizer large enough to move the water in your tank 2-3 times is ideal.
4- He also recommended keeping your tank temperature lower than most people keep their reefs. According to him, Corals live in much colder water than 78 degrees and Protozoa multiply much slower at lower temperatures such as 72-74 degrees.

So for a reef with a volume of water of 300 gallons, he recommended using the 120 watt UV and passing the water through the UV at 600 GPH and turning the water over a minimum of 2 times per hour. If you go with the 150 watt you will get a little over 3 times water tank turnover. Yes, these units are big and are not suitable for many due to space restraints but for those who have the room, it’s something to think about.

The above information is not stated as fact but for information purposes only. I am sure there are some on this forum who are very informed on UV sterilization and welcome your opinion.

 

[Miami Reef]

I have been doing a lot of research on UV sterilizers for my upcoming 350 gallon build. With all the misinformation and lack of information in some cases, I decided to call Pentair UV and get some questions answered. Interestingly, he himself is a long tome reefer and actually has a coral propagation business in Panama and sells all his coral and fish to a wholesaler.
I will Summarize my conversation below:

1- Pentair has spent millions of dollars on independent studies to determine the correct flow and exposure rates on their units. They are a huge company providing all kinds of equipment to treat all kinds of water conditions in many types of water treatment plants. They have have federal approval and licenses that provide scientific proof their units work as advertised.
2- Most UV manufacturers ( according to him) don’t have adequate exposure and flow rates for their UV’s. An example is comparing the Pentair 50 watt unit to the Aqua Ultraviolet 57 watt. The Aqua unit states a minimum flow for Protozoa and bacteria at 1066 GPH and a maximum flow of 3200 GPH for a 355 gallon aquarium. The Pentair 50 watt unit recommends Protozoa and bacteria to have a flow between 260 to 330 GHP for a 330 gallon aquarium. That’s a big difference, with Pentair recommending a flow rate of about 3 times less.
3- The pentair technical advisor indicated that turning over the water in the tank 1 time per hour is a minimum. Many Protozoa and bacteria may not get denatured or killed with only 1 pass through the UV and will most likely need another pass. Therefore, having a UV sterilizer large enough to move the water in your tank 2-3 times is ideal.
4- He also recommended keeping your tank temperature lower than most people keep their reefs. According to him, Corals live in much colder water than 78 degrees and Protozoa multiply much slower at lower temperatures such as 72-74 degrees.

So for a reef with a volume of water of 300 gallons, he recommended using the 120 watt UV and passing the water through the UV at 600 GPH and turning the water over a minimum of 2 times per hour. If you go with the 150 watt you will get a little over 3 times water tank turnover. Yes, these units are big and are not suitable for many due to space restraints but for those who have the room, it’s something to think about.

The above information is not stated as fact but for information purposes only. I am sure there are some on this forum who are very informed on UV sterilization and welcome your opinion.

That’s so smart! I didn’t even think about lowering my temps and slowing down my UV when I had an ich breakout.

No wonder I failed at ich management!

Thank you for sharing this! While I do agree that cooler temps slow algae, parasites, and bacteria, I will probably need a chiller for that.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

What i love about the idea of uv and ozone is it literallty.explodeds or destroys the molecules on contact. They vaporize. Lol.
Can't wait to implant uv on my upgrade. I feel it will be safer than ozone. Thanks for sharing your exp.
D

 

[JumboShrimp]

A very interesting read. The only thing I can personally add (Pentair 40W on each of my 150-gallon tanks) is that they like to ‘pop’ various types of circuit breakers, somewhat at random. I read the best strategy is to isolate them so only one UV unit is plugged into a single outlet without any other device. Even with that, I might get 1 hour, 1/2 a day, maybe a day and a half, and when I swing by to take at look the circuit breaker I’m using it has been tripped. It happens with both units, where I will reset them both and one might be off five hours later and the other is still doing fine. Go figure. (?) (And yes, both my units passed the required ‘paper towel’ test.)

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

*implement

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

80 thats a big uv
-d

 

[Gundy]

A very interesting read. The only thing I can personally add (Pentair 40W on each of my 150-gallon tanks) is that they like to ‘pop’ various types of circuit breakers, somewhat at random. I read the best strategy is to isolate them so only one UV unit is plugged into a single outlet without any other device. Even with that, I might get 1 hour, 1/2 a day, maybe a day and a half, and when I swing by to take at look the circuit breaker I’m using it has been tripped. It happens with both units, where I will reset them both and one might be off five hours later and the other is still doing fine. Go figure. (?) (And yes, both my units passed the required ‘paper towel’ test.)

The rep did say this is a problem with the larger units because the size and type of ballast they use. But not for everyone, just on occasion from what people have reported to him.

 

[Sean Clark]

My only issue with this is the claim that Pentair developed this... spent millions to aquire is a more accurate representation.

1- Pentair has spent millions of dollars on independent studies to determine the correct flow and exposure rates on their units.

Pentair purchased Empire Aquatics on March 7, 2014

Pentair Acquires Emperor Aquatics, Inc.

Source: Pentair Ltd.

www.athleticbusiness.com

The flow rates did not change for any of ther the acquired products. Pentair did nothing here.

I own and suggest this product above all others uv products marketed to the reef hobby but Pentair had nothing to do with developing the product.

I recommend Pentair UV sterilizers.

 

[Malcontent]

Millions of dollars...LOL. A few hundred dollars tops. If they did any real research they'd realize that flow rate doesn't matter (as long as it's not too low) and save some money.

 

[Gundy]

My only issue with this is the claim that Pentair developed this... spent millions to aquire is a more accurate representation.

1- Pentair has spent millions of dollars on independent studies to determine the correct flow and exposure rates on their units.

Pentair purchased Empire Aquatics on March 7, 2014

Pentair Acquires Emperor Aquatics, Inc.

Source: Pentair Ltd.

www.athleticbusiness.com

The flow rates did not change for any of ther the acquired products. Pentair did nothing here.

I own and suggest this product above all others uv products marketed to the reef hobby but Pentair had nothing to do with developing the product.

I recommend Pentair UV sterilizers.

You are right on this point, however emperor aquatics spent the money to have all this technology tested and certified. Good point.

 

[Eric R.]

Recommended temperature ranges really seem to vary depending on who you ask. Shimek recommends higher temps than Delbeek and Sprung did. Randy Holmes-Farley references Shimek, and Reefs Magazine did a four part series on this called The Great Temperature Debate. I think ultimately if you pay attention, you can figure out what temperature range works best for your tank.

 

[Jmcg89]

A very interesting read. The only thing I can personally add (Pentair 40W on each of my 150-gallon tanks) is that they like to ‘pop’ various types of circuit breakers, somewhat at random. I read the best strategy is to isolate them so only one UV unit is plugged into a single outlet without any other device. Even with that, I might get 1 hour, 1/2 a day, maybe a day and a half, and when I swing by to take at look the circuit breaker I’m using it has been tripped. It happens with both units, where I will reset them both and one might be off five hours later and the other is still doing fine. Go figure. (?) (And yes, both my units passed the required ‘paper towel’ test.)

I would reach out to them, I have a 40w that would trip the breaker and they sent me a new power supply/ballast whatever it is called I can't remember. They had redesigned it so the new one they sent is totally different.
But that fixed my issue and it hasn't happened again since.
They were very helpful.

 

[Gundy]

I would reach out to them, I have a 40w that would trip the breaker and they sent me a new power supply/ballast whatever it is called I can't remember. They had redesigned it so the new one they sent is totally different.
But that fixed my issue and it hasn't happened again since.
They were very helpful.

I agree. The guy I talked to was very nice and helpful. You really need to have your UV running 24/7 for good results.

 

[Jdzzl03]

Great information, thanks for sharing! I have noticed a big difference in algae growth once I setup my 80w.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Thanks a lot (@Jmcg89 and @Gundy), I believe the Pentair headquarters is literally a 25 minute drive away from me. I might have to pop in. I agree that in terms of usefulness, a UV sterilizer that won’t stay on is a little like an alarm clock that won’t ring.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Millions of dollars...LOL. A few hundred dollars tops. If they did any real research they'd realize that flow rate doesn't matter (as long as it's not too low) and save some money.

Got any studies to back that claim?

Every study of the subject across competing manufactures that I'm aware of, disagrees with you.

Flow rate is paramount to efficacy.

 

[Malcontent]

Got any studies to back that claim?

Every study of the subject across competing manufactures that I'm aware of, disagrees with you.

Flow rate is paramount to efficacy.

First of all, manufacturers haven't conducted any real studies. They have guidelines they came up with. The only actual study on UV dose and Cryptocaryon was published in late 2021:

Ultraviolet light and ozone controls Cryptocaryon irritans infection in factory aquaculture | Semantic Scholar

Semantic Scholar extracted view of "Ultraviolet light and ozone controls Cryptocaryon irritans infection in factory aquaculture" by Geling Lu et al.

www.semanticscholar.org

Next, the idea that UV dosage is cumulative has already been discussed (it is):

Are the effects of UV sterilizer cumulative?

Contact time being the primary factor in whether or not a cell dies/is damaged I was wondering. Since our tanks are closed systems does each pass into the UV accumulate ontop of the last? If something takes x amount of a dose to die but each pass hits it with 1/10th of x and it passes the...

www.reef2reef.com

The hobby has this strange idea that anything that isn't completely killed in a single pass repairs itself instantly and without any energy input or consumption of cellular resources (which is strange since the theronts aren't a feeding stage and have a finite supply of energy). This notion was dispelled in the aforementioned study:

All the single pass studies from drinking water (which don't even actually involve Cryptocaryon) are largely irrelevant. What are more relevant are the studies where the media is recirculating through a UV reactor ("sterilizer") at different flow rates. The slow flow rates always perform the worst while the faster ones are better and perform similarly to one another.

 

[Freenow54]

A very interesting read. The only thing I can personally add (Pentair 40W on each of my 150-gallon tanks) is that they like to ‘pop’ various types of circuit breakers, somewhat at random. I read the best strategy is to isolate them so only one UV unit is plugged into a single outlet without any other device. Even with that, I might get 1 hour, 1/2 a day, maybe a day and a half, and when I swing by to take at look the circuit breaker I’m using it has been tripped. It happens with both units, where I will reset them both and one might be off five hours later and the other is still doing fine. Go figure. (?) (And yes, both my units passed the required ‘paper towel’ test.)

Paper towel test? That is so strange what else is on that I assume 15 Amp circuit? Are they GFI ?

 

[Freenow54]

I have been doing a lot of research on UV sterilizers for my upcoming 350 gallon build. With all the misinformation and lack of information in some cases, I decided to call Pentair UV and get some questions answered. Interestingly, he himself is a long tome reefer and actually has a coral propagation business in Panama and sells all his coral and fish to a wholesaler.
I will Summarize my conversation below:

1- Pentair has spent millions of dollars on independent studies to determine the correct flow and exposure rates on their units. They are a huge company providing all kinds of equipment to treat all kinds of water conditions in many types of water treatment plants. They have have federal approval and licenses that provide scientific proof their units work as advertised.
2- Most UV manufacturers ( according to him) don’t have adequate exposure and flow rates for their UV’s. An example is comparing the Pentair 50 watt unit to the Aqua Ultraviolet 57 watt. The Aqua unit states a minimum flow for Protozoa and bacteria at 1066 GPH and a maximum flow of 3200 GPH for a 355 gallon aquarium. The Pentair 50 watt unit recommends Protozoa and bacteria to have a flow between 260 to 330 GHP for a 330 gallon aquarium. That’s a big difference, with Pentair recommending a flow rate of about 3 times less.
3- The pentair technical advisor indicated that turning over the water in the tank 1 time per hour is a minimum. Many Protozoa and bacteria may not get denatured or killed with only 1 pass through the UV and will most likely need another pass. Therefore, having a UV sterilizer large enough to move the water in your tank 2-3 times is ideal.
4- He also recommended keeping your tank temperature lower than most people keep their reefs. According to him, Corals live in much colder water than 78 degrees and Protozoa multiply much slower at lower temperatures such as 72-74 degrees.

So for a reef with a volume of water of 300 gallons, he recommended using the 120 watt UV and passing the water through the UV at 600 GPH and turning the water over a minimum of 2 times per hour. If you go with the 150 watt you will get a little over 3 times water tank turnover. Yes, these units are big and are not suitable for many due to space restraints but for those who have the room, it’s something to think about.

The above information is not stated as fact but for information purposes only. I am sure there are some on this forum who are very informed on UV sterilization and welcome your opinion.

See what you started? lol

 

[Garf]

Ok, so a reservoir feeding a UV is slowly pumped. Is that any better than pumping it through the UV 10 times faster, with 10 times reduced contact time, but 10 times more contacts?