Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

We have to simulate the environment much as possible and adding nature's natural resource

That is what this thread is about Rebuilding dino competitors.

 

[taricha]

@brandon429 actually, we could make it a challenge of sorts.
Get reefers with decent microscope and with the following criteria:
1. Tank been running with coral & fish for at least a year
2. No dino outbreak in the current setup of the tank
3. Livestock purchased from at least 3 sources.
4. sand bed (of any kind)
5. No nano tank (40 gal+)

Take samples from lit areas of:
sand bed
rockwork
any filamentous algae/film algae/cyano/diatoms
algae in a fuge/sump
detritus at bottom of fuge/sump

I would estimate that even though none of those tanks have had an outbreak, at least one in 3 (33%) will have Dino cells of our problem strains that can be found under the scope.
What do you think? that we'd find problem Dino cells in less than 1/5? 1/10?

I'm genuinely curious how common they are established reef tanks without a recognized "dino problem."

I hear you. Dino takeovers are rare in the nano world. But I think that's because y'all have several redundant methods that reduce 99+% of the cells.

If we ever did encounter the invasive strains, then the suppression method we employ during normal tank care took care of aggregation, something has to explain no dinos in 18 yrs knock on wood right about now

 

[brandon429]

I would be open to you compiling all that, yes. It's truly interesting. If we're importing them more often than I'm guessing and it's the forced manual removal that prevents expression, good to know.

I'll mail a sample of my water if anyone wants. A little styro packed API vial super cheap to mail

 

[reeferfoxx]

Not one keeper on my YouTube page ever got dinos.

Not to argue this but most youtubers get dinos and diatoms mixed or misidentified. All to often do I see 1 and 2 year old tanks on youtube experiencing diatom blooms. What is funny though is they leave it alone and the bloom goes away. Usually it's a minor predator that doesn't take hold like some tanks. Revhtree's tank was invaded and through a triton icp test it was showing showing excessive metals. Though the information was vague and the test wasn't posted. However, like many of the other tanks in this thread, they have shown similarities with dry rock, live sand, and excessive export medias. I will note that my tank, like revhtree's, both used Fritz salt and this has me curious to an extent.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed, we don't take time to scope ID so I can't rule out invaders that might have been dino we wiped out thinking they're cyano. if we spot something the keeper doesn't like, we attacked the whole tank when I could convince em to do so + photograph

There could be proro and ostreopsis in my setup from additions past, I'm missing the active phase that large tanks can't seem to shake... that seems odd.

It's also fair that successions of communities we import wax and wane but that holding period is way longer than someone who dropped $2000 often wants, I always wanted our tank rescue threads to meet their expectations without delay.

The safe zone in having them wait longer and longer when they posted unhappy about the initial invasion I could not apply in our tank work threads, if I wasn't dealing in a known outcome mode I felt unaccountable to them.

 

[mcarroll]

i don't have time to read or feel like reading 36 pages of posts lol

Me and everyone else too. Yet here we all are reading and posting.

Thankfully you can run a search on a thread to target your reading.

Try one of these searches on this thread for example:
pods
copepods

Depending on how interested you are, you might even want to click over to the old dino thread linked in the first post and try those searches there too.

(Hint: Like most things, it's not wrong but it's not that simple.)

 

[mcarroll]

Revhtree's tank was invaded

Whatever happened to that thread? I remember when @revhtree opened it so somehow it popped onto my radar, but then it seemed to disappear without another mention.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Whatever happened to that thread? I remember when @revhtree opened it so somehow it popped onto my radar, but then it seemed to disappear without another mention.

He just said that he basically had enough of the invasion, triton test confirmed excessive amounts of metals, and he was starting over.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

Here are some videos of the dinos in my tank. I didn't have slides to put them on so they are on a white back ground in a rounded drop of water. Please let me know if anyone can ID them.


Close up with fixed focus.



Close up with changing focus to see the different layers.



Single dino in a patch of what I think is diatoms.

 

[mcarroll]

Velvet a type of dinoflagellates also i wish i had a scope I'd like to setup a system to add velvet and see if there a pod species that eats them.

That would be interesting.

Interesting as well that very much like with our "problem" dino's that disease-causing dino's are less-active and less-virulent in a healthy environment. They are much worse in a disturbed environment.....an environment just like you might find in a QT or brand new tank.

(IIRC this is true of disease-causing organisms generally. I have an article saved on my blog that speaks to this.)

 

[Paullawr]

@Bret
Dormant dinos rather diatoms. Diatoms are everything from elongated to star shaped. Think kaleidoscope here.

 

[Paullawr]

This thread is going like the other....

Adding trace elements or not makes little difference. So moving on to competitors.... Well this we have done to death but noone has yet provided the killer most people want in their household.

I've seen the odd pic of a cilliate playing with a Dino but not enough to outcompete.

Its funny, in that 'other thread' people were lauded for looking for the magic bullet. Which is exactly where we are heading here.

 

[Paullawr]

Talking of magic bullets and competitors. If one in nature really does exist. We are going to be pretty darn lucky to fish it out.

Nature has a habit (funnily enough) of prey and predator occupying the same space. One usually follows the other.

If looking for a predator wouldn't we therefore be better harvesting mud where dinos spend a lot of time or where they bloom (surface areas of the sea). Adding a lump of rock isnt likely to bring in what we need.

 

[mcarroll]

@Paullawr Have no fear – we're just talking!!

It remains the case that the only "magic bullet" is a healthy tank....no specific piece of it will work, it takes the whole thing. Some critters eat our dino's. Some critters feed it. Some critters crowd it out. Some shade it out. Etc. Takes the whole team!

 

[Paullawr]

Not to argue this but most youtubers get dinos and diatoms mixed or misidentified. All to often do I see 1 and 2 year old tanks on youtube experiencing diatom blooms. What is funny though is they leave it alone and the bloom goes away. Usually it's a minor predator that doesn't take hold like some tanks. Revhtree's tank was invaded and through a triton icp test it was showing showing excessive metals. Though the information was vague and the test wasn't posted. However, like many of the other tanks in this thread, they have shown similarities with dry rock, live sand, and excessive export medias. I will note that my tank, like revhtree's, both used Fritz salt and this has me curious to an extent.

Salt is nothing more than a coincidence. I've seen the same thoughts posted for all to see for many different salt mixes. No different to people carbon dosing or zeovit or....
Every setup can get them and has had or do have them.
The only thing in common is our ability to pass them on.

 

[Paullawr]

@Paullawr Have no fear – we're just talking!!

It remains the case that the only "magic bullet" is a healthy tank....no specific piece of it will work, it takes the whole thing. Some critters eat our dino's. Some critters feed it. Some critters crowd it out. Some shade it out. Etc. Takes the whole team!

I know fella.

Hope You are keeping well.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Salt is nothing more than a coincidence. I've seen the same thoughts posted for all to see for many different salt mixes. No different to people carbon dosing or zeovit or....
Every setup can get them and has had or do have them.
The only thing in common is our ability to pass them on.

We pass on dinos from one tank to another but if a salt mix contains some toxic metals killing your competitors might be a reason for concern. I wouldn't write it off just yet.

 

[Paullawr]

So whats new guys? Im back with you, I received my old corals from restarted tank to a quarantine and it was all ok without dinos till maybe a week ago, I checked in microscope and they are ostreopsis again so I think some came back with my corals,the good news is I put them all in nano tank and my big tank is clean. The strange thing is my nano tank dont have any filtration, only filter socks, nitrates are at 0.2 and phosphate at 0.2, all was ok when I had fishless tank but when I addes snowflake pair it all started. Yesterday I was looking some videos that they found the cure fos ostreopsis in spain with 25 ml peroxide for 100 l of water every 12 h but I would prefer natural first, bought nitrate aditive than arrives tuesday and I hope it works. I only have some lps, anemone, mushrooms, zoas in my nano and for now they are all ok, my snails and shrimps are ok too, so it seems its not so toxic yet.

Hey dear.

Well I'm just about to setup my new mini nano. Innovative marine fusion 10.
Let the fun and tears begin all over again.

Actually it'd like fun for the first three months then all goes to pot.

 

[Paullawr]

We pass on dinos from one tank to another but if a salt mix contains some toxic metals killing your competitors might be a reason for concern. I wouldn't write it off just yet.

Well I'll Let you know how I get on as I'm going natural sea water this time round.

 

[Paullawr]

@brandon429 actually, we could make it a challenge of sorts.
Get reefers with decent microscope and with the following criteria:
1. Tank been running with coral & fish for at least a year
2. No dino outbreak in the current setup of the tank
3. Livestock purchased from at least 3 sources.
4. sand bed (of any kind)
5. No nano tank (40 gal+)

Take samples from lit areas of:
sand bed
rockwork
any filamentous algae/film algae/cyano/diatoms
algae in a fuge/sump
detritus at bottom of fuge/sump

I would estimate that even though none of those tanks have had an outbreak, at least one in 3 (33%) will have Dino cells of our problem strains that can be found under the scope.
What do you think? that we'd find problem Dino cells in less than 1/5? 1/10?

I'm genuinely curious how common they are established reef tanks without a recognized "dino problem."

I hear you. Dino takeovers are rare in the nano world. But I think that's because y'all have several redundant methods that reduce 99+% of the cells.

No not rare. I've had three nano tanks and all started from scratch and had them.