Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

biecacka

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N03 5-10
P04 .o82 per Hanna

Just checked them again. Not sure if I have cyano or Dino's. I think it's cyano but I'm not sure. I run a bubble scrubber so I think the few bubbles in the algae are from that.

Corey
 
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mcarroll

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Good work! :)

Either "algae" will have a tendency to bubble pure O2 once they are photosynthesizing rapidly....plants do the same thing.

Dino's and cyano blooms are also not mutually exclusive.....cyano and dino's appear to get along very well in a co-community, so you might have both! A microscope would show you which case you have going on.

If I haven't mentioned it and you don't already have something better, I do like the $12 scope I started with (check my "Selecting a microscope" thread). I think it's a great minimum...everyone should have at least that (and a $12 lux meter) when they start their reef. ;)
 

Cscultho

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Following!!!

Im freaked out myself now. I have the same nightmare everyone else seems to have going on with the slime strings from the rock and starting to cover my sand bed. I started dosing N earlier this week (5ml of Stump Remover) and today a cap full of Seachem Flourish Phosphorus for my 70g total volume. Im extremely nervous about this and am praying it works!!! Please wish me luck....

Is the suggestion to dose daily N and P? My plan would be to continue every day of 5ml of N and 1-cap full of P. does this sound right??

Also my issue began when i siphoned my sand be for the first time. The day after siphoning the monster woke up!!;Mask

Oh by the way my N and P have been 0.00.
 

landlubber

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Following!!!

Im freaked out myself now. I have the same nightmare everyone else seems to have going on with the slime strings from the rock and starting to cover my sand bed. I started dosing N earlier this week (5ml of Stump Remover) and today a cap full of Seachem Flourish Phosphorus for my 70g total volume. Im extremely nervous about this and am praying it works!!! Please wish me luck....

Is the suggestion to dose daily N and P? My plan would be to continue every day of 5ml of N and 1-cap full of P. does this sound right??

Also my issue began when i siphoned my sand be for the first time. The day after siphoning the monster woke up!!;Mask

Oh by the way my N and P have been 0.00.
your tank requirements (size, coral load and how fast your system uses nutrients) will decide how much nitrate and phosphate you will add. you need to up your nitrate and phos testing to make that decision. when i'm uncertain of dosing i will test daily to figure it out.
 

Cscultho

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your tank requirements (size, coral load and how fast your system uses nutrients) will decide how much nitrate and phosphate you will add. you need to up your nitrate and phos testing to make that decision. when i'm uncertain of dosing i will test daily to figure it out.
I have a small coral load....only 1-colony of zoa and 1-mushroom. I have 4-fish and i feed at least 2x per day. i will begin testing tomorrow to confirm what my baseline is. do you have any recommendations beyond this??
 
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mcarroll

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@Cscultho Sounds like you could be feeding your fish a lot more frequently throughout the day....possibly more total volume of food too, given the level of nutrients. Don't starve the little varmints! :) They and the tank will both be healthier if you feed em well!

If you aren't already using an auto-feeder for at least part of your feeding routine, I highly recommend it. Use it to feed when you're unable to.

The Flourish Phosphorus calculator tells me that you want to dose 1.2 capfuls or 5.8 mL to achieve 0.10 ppm of PO4 in 70 gallons.

Test the next day and see how well that dose held at 0.10 ppm. If it's back to zero (very likely, but not certain) then dose another full dose, as described.

And test again the next day to see if the tank consumed all of it. Repeat. :)

Be prepared to start backing down the dose when you start seeing an accumulation of PO4 in your tests. Go back to the calculator for new dose levels to keep targeting 0.10 ppm in the tank.

Same rhythm for NO3 and your target would initially be 10 ppm.

The calc here A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!) tells me 216 mL (cc) of the standard DIY KNO3 solution to get 70 gallons up to 10 ppm.
 

Cscultho

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@Cscultho Sounds like you could be feeding your fish a lot more frequently throughout the day....possibly more total volume of food too, given the level of nutrients. Don't starve the little varmints! :) They and the tank will both be healthier if you feed em well!

If you aren't already using an auto-feeder for at least part of your feeding routine, I highly recommend it. Use it to feed when you're unable to.

The Flourish Phosphorus calculator tells me that you want to dose 1.2 capfuls or 5.8 mL to achieve 0.10 ppm of PO4 in 70 gallons.

Test the next day and see how well that dose held at 0.10 ppm. If it's back to zero (very likely, but not certain) then dose another full dose, as described.

And test again the next day to see if the tank consumed all of it. Repeat. :)

Be prepared to start backing down the dose when you start seeing an accumulation of PO4 in your tests. Go back to the calculator for new dose levels to keep targeting 0.10 ppm in the tank.

Same rhythm for NO3 and your target would initially be 10 ppm.



The calc here A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!) tells me 216 mL (cc) of the standard DIY KNO3 solution to get 70 gallons up to 10 ppm.


@mcarroll the God of Dino's!!;)

Thanks for responding. I will report back when i have a handle on my dosing per your instructions. thanks again to all who can steer me in the right direction!!
 

Cscultho

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;Facepalm:D
@mcarroll.....so here is today's update:
-Dosed yesterday 5ml NO3 and 1-cap NO4
-Dosed today 5ml NO3 and 1-cap NO4
-No visual improvements. If anything it has gotten a bit worse on the sandbed only.

-Tested NO3:
- Measured around 3-5ppm
-Tested Po4:
- Measured around 0.003ppm

Do i stay the course and continue dosing?
Do i not do any water changes for a while?

IMG_0275.JPG
 
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mcarroll

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Check the instructions from your test kit to see if you need to apply a conversion factor on that phosphate/phosphorus reading.

Maybe either way, that still looks like a zero phosphate reading to me!

Keep dosing! :)

Seems like you could maybe adjust to a smaller NO3 dose, but PO4 I'd say dose the same.

If you can, do a water change just so you can vacuum the sand really well. Not only to pick up the dino bloom you see, but to clean their leftovers out the sand really well too.
 

m0jjen

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@mcarroll.....so here is today's update:
-Dosed yesterday 5ml NO3 and 1-cap NO4
-Dosed today 5ml NO3 and 1-cap NO4
-No visual improvements. If anything it has gotten a bit worse on the sandbed only.

-Tested NO3:
- Measured around 3-5ppm
-Tested Po4:
- Measured around 0.003ppm

Do i stay the course and continue dosing?
Do i not do any water changes for a while?

IMG_0275.JPG

There so real harm in going higher in nutrients. I myself seem to have missjudged my sandbed and actually think its diatoms :D When i dosed NO3 and PO4 i dosed up to as much as 5 ppm no3 and 0.1 po4. I dosed 0.02 po4 daily which which was my ideal target. Today i have 2.5 ppm no3 and 0.02 po4. Once i got readings above 0.02 i started halting my doses to every second day and monitored by testing daily at the same time.
 
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taricha

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There so real harm in going higher in nutrients. I myself seem to have missjudged my sandbed and actually think its diatoms :D

People would be amazed how many 100s or 1000s of posts have been wasted in frustration and years of chasing our tails over mis-IDs.

A reef tank should come with a microscope! Not every brown cell is the same thing! The brown patch on this rock today may not be the same as the brown patch on that other rock last week!

I mean - after the first people said it worked, it still took years to firmly establish that (appropriate power and flow) UV reliably reduces ostreopsis blooms to invisible.
Because for every few people it worked for, there was someone else who saw a brown patch after UV and reported that "dinos immune to UV", when really all they actually observed was a brown patch.
 

m0jjen

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People would be amazed how many 100s or 1000s of posts have been wasted in frustration and years of chasing our tails over mis-IDs.

A reef tank should come with a microscope! Not every brown cell is the same thing! The brown patch on this rock today may not be the same as the brown patch on that other rock last week!

I mean - after the first people said it worked, it still took years to firmly establish that (appropriate power and flow) UV reliably reduces ostreopsis blooms to invisible.
Because for every few people it worked for, there was someone else who saw a brown patch after UV and reported that "dinos immune to UV", when really all they actually observed was a brown patch.

Well, i had dinos, i had em bad!

20430094_10155415291661101_8510352665599017072_n.jpg

****** picture but thats is a live acro covered in dino (determend by microscope). So at first glance i though the dino came back no when i re-introduced sand. But i completely agree with you. Every reefer should have a microscope :)
 

taricha

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Totally, and hope nobody thinks I was going at you. I've collected brown bubbly where I was sure to see ostis and been shocked by diatoms. My rant was aimed at the void.
Your observations have been great. Not many people triton test Dino water. :)
 

Cscultho

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Well, i had dinos, i had em bad!

20430094_10155415291661101_8510352665599017072_n.jpg

****** picture but thats is a live acro covered in dino (determend by microscope). So at first glance i though the dino came back no when i re-introduced sand. But i completely agree with you. Every reefer should have a microscope :)

And what was your method for getting rid of your bloom?
 

Cscultho

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Remove sand, dose KH2PO4 and KNO3 along with manual suction removal :)
Yikes!;Nailbiting Im hoping i do not have to get to the removal of my sand bed. How long did you battle the Dino's before you called it quits and pulled your sand bed??
 

m0jjen

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Yikes!;Nailbiting Im hoping i do not have to get to the removal of my sand bed. How long did you battle the Dino's before you called it quits and pulled your sand bed??
Well to me it came to the point of desperation, the dino was litterly sufficating my corals. So i had to do something drastic to give me a chance to at the very least improve the situation. If id get some small dino bloom on the sandbed i wouldnt remove the sandbed unless it got alot worse, fast! :)
 
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mcarroll

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@Cscultho, vacuuming the sand bed may have been nearly or just as effective – that's something else I'd try before full removal. (Unless you are thinking about bare-bottom already...in which case it's not really that much bother to remove.)
 

Cscultho

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@Cscultho, vacuuming the sand bed may have been nearly or just as effective – that's something else I'd try before full removal. (Unless you are thinking about bare-bottom already...in which case it's not really that much bother to remove.)
I did a vacuum of the sand bed yesterday and it looked good for a couple hours and then it started to creep back on the sand and rock. Im just wondering if i should continue dosing to maintain NO3 & PO4 levels and not vacuum for a couple of weeks?? I think the biggest battle right now is just getting stability.

What i do know is in the future i will always continue vacuuming my sand bed during water changes. I want to ensure that i eliminate as much of the "Dino Devils" as possible and hope my systems is strong enough to overcome. I also think i have age of the system not in my favor. My tank is only 5 months old.

One thing i noticed that i found interesting was in my fuge were a bunch of sponges on the glass, bottom and on my skimmer.
 
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