maksim serebro
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Manufacturer info states that aquarium silicone can be applied even at 50 degrees Celsius. Stable up to 150-200 Celsius. It should be fine. I'm going with hot water.
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
- Thread starter mcarroll
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mcarroll
10K Club member
Folks, lets please try to keep this on-topic.
If you haven't been to the thread before, please start at post #1 to find out what it's all about.
Like I just said:
That should be the last time bleach and your reef have anything to do with each other.
Heating is a terrible idea...even after all precautions mentioned. This stuff is bad to breathe.
Don't say I didn't warn you...along with other folks here.
I'd suggest starting your own thread for the effort.
If you haven't been to the thread before, please start at post #1 to find out what it's all about.
Like I just said:
That should be the last time bleach and your reef have anything to do with each other.
Heating is a terrible idea...even after all precautions mentioned. This stuff is bad to breathe.
Don't say I didn't warn you...along with other folks here.
I'd suggest starting your own thread for the effort.
Beardo
Well-Known Member
@mcarroll, wanted to thank you for starting this thread and have to say I agree with you on the philosophy of maintaining healthy N and P levels and associated biodiversity in the tank. Also, my apologies for going off topic on this thread in my previous responses to others.
I have been fighting dinos on and off, though mostly on for the last 2 1/2 years across 2 tanks. I never ID'd them with a microscope (you would think in that amount of time I would have broken down and bought a microscope) but from all the losses I have occurred and the resilience of these, I suspect Ostreopsis.
Looking back at the initial outbreak in each tank, I can pinpoint it to times I have driven nutrients too low and/or messed with the bacterial balance in my tanks.
I first realized I had them in my 240g tank in January of 2015. I had been battling a bad cyano outbreak, though most likely a combo of cyano and dinos. I had been adding vinegar, not for the express purpose of carbon dosing, but in my ATO to increase the concentration of kalk, though it still had the same effect of adding a carbon source to the tank. I stopped adding vinegar for a short time to hopefully combat the cyano but restarted pretty quickly thereafter. At the same time I changed my gfo and had the brilliant idea of adding peroxide as I was suspecting I had dinos as well due to some unexplained coral loss. Well the cyano disappeared pretty quickly thereafter but I ended up with my first full low dino bloom. I tried quite a few different methods to combat them without any long term success.
When I moved towards the end of 2015, I decided to go ahead and just upgrade and start all over. Bought a 270g tank and used all new rock, a combo of live rock from TBS for increased biodiversity, and rock I purchased from someone locally. I moved my 240g to the new house and kept it going while I was waiting for the new tank to get going. Before moving corals over, performed multiple dips in dilute peroxide and quarantined the corals in another tank. Pretty sure I reintroduced dinos when I moved my clam. Though I put it in quarantine, it was full of tank water when I moved it. I may have been fine still but was dealing with a massive hair algae outbreak from the rock I purchased locally and started back with gfo. I started seeing signs of dinos off and on but nothing severe. Then, right after a gfo change, dinos exploded.
Combined across both tanks I have tried pretty much everything out there to combat them; peroxide up to 3ml/10gal 3 times a day, slow flow UV, multiple lights out, microbacter 7, Probidio BioDigest, Dr. Tims Refresh and Waste-Away, multiple lights outs, elevated pH for extended periods of time (this has been the most effective at controlling them for me), Vibrant, Metronidazole (this was the absolute worst thing for my tank as I suffered the loss of almost all remaining SPS and lost some fish. purchased from ebay so may have been a quality issue), "the clean method" by running low nutrients and "the dirty method" by increasing nutrients and most recently sand bed removal.
Increasing nutrients seem to hold the most long term promise. I believe where I failed in the past is focusing just on Nitrates. I was doing Sodium Nitrate and checked Phospate on occasion but never made a concerted effort to monitor and maintain phosphate levels long term. I have had 2 recent periods of success and thought I was over dinos when they disappeared for months and had signs of green algae on the rocks and glass. After adding a number of frags back to the tank, they bloomed again and I lost most of the frags again. I should have known this was coming when 2 different attempts to start chaeto failed with the chaeto balls fading away. Right after this episode I boosted pH again and the dinos have lessened significantly but are still present.
I am currently giving it another go and have Seachem Flourish Phosphate and Sodium Nitrate on hand and have been dosing the last few days. With adding and monitoring levels, I have noticed how quickly phosphates are being used up, went from 0.7ppm after addition yesterday back to zero today. Nitrates have been holding pretty steady at 5ppm. We will see how things go over the next month or 2 but am hopeful as I do see some green algae on the glass and signs on the rocks. I have also restarted a phyto culture and will be adding phyto daily.
Even though I am hopeful, I have started up a 50 cube that I had sitting in the garage in preparation for moving the remaining corals over after freshwater dips and QT, in the event I am unsuccessful in this latest effort. I will then do a full reboot on the 270 with rock I have been curing along with some fresh live rock. Tank and all equipment will be cleaned and bleached before being set back up. If I do have to reset, none of the corals will go back to the 270. I still need to figure out how to handle the fish, hoping multiple freshwater dips and QT will take care of any dinos on the slime coat.
Regardless of what direction I need to take in the future, I am done with gfo and other chemical treatments. I know many use it with success, but I just push it too far and get in trouble with it. Going forward, skimming, water changes, activated carbon and chaeto or full refugium is what I plan on using for nutrient control.
Any other suggestions you or others may have would definitely be appreciated.
I have been fighting dinos on and off, though mostly on for the last 2 1/2 years across 2 tanks. I never ID'd them with a microscope (you would think in that amount of time I would have broken down and bought a microscope) but from all the losses I have occurred and the resilience of these, I suspect Ostreopsis.
Looking back at the initial outbreak in each tank, I can pinpoint it to times I have driven nutrients too low and/or messed with the bacterial balance in my tanks.
I first realized I had them in my 240g tank in January of 2015. I had been battling a bad cyano outbreak, though most likely a combo of cyano and dinos. I had been adding vinegar, not for the express purpose of carbon dosing, but in my ATO to increase the concentration of kalk, though it still had the same effect of adding a carbon source to the tank. I stopped adding vinegar for a short time to hopefully combat the cyano but restarted pretty quickly thereafter. At the same time I changed my gfo and had the brilliant idea of adding peroxide as I was suspecting I had dinos as well due to some unexplained coral loss. Well the cyano disappeared pretty quickly thereafter but I ended up with my first full low dino bloom. I tried quite a few different methods to combat them without any long term success.
When I moved towards the end of 2015, I decided to go ahead and just upgrade and start all over. Bought a 270g tank and used all new rock, a combo of live rock from TBS for increased biodiversity, and rock I purchased from someone locally. I moved my 240g to the new house and kept it going while I was waiting for the new tank to get going. Before moving corals over, performed multiple dips in dilute peroxide and quarantined the corals in another tank. Pretty sure I reintroduced dinos when I moved my clam. Though I put it in quarantine, it was full of tank water when I moved it. I may have been fine still but was dealing with a massive hair algae outbreak from the rock I purchased locally and started back with gfo. I started seeing signs of dinos off and on but nothing severe. Then, right after a gfo change, dinos exploded.
Combined across both tanks I have tried pretty much everything out there to combat them; peroxide up to 3ml/10gal 3 times a day, slow flow UV, multiple lights out, microbacter 7, Probidio BioDigest, Dr. Tims Refresh and Waste-Away, multiple lights outs, elevated pH for extended periods of time (this has been the most effective at controlling them for me), Vibrant, Metronidazole (this was the absolute worst thing for my tank as I suffered the loss of almost all remaining SPS and lost some fish. purchased from ebay so may have been a quality issue), "the clean method" by running low nutrients and "the dirty method" by increasing nutrients and most recently sand bed removal.
Increasing nutrients seem to hold the most long term promise. I believe where I failed in the past is focusing just on Nitrates. I was doing Sodium Nitrate and checked Phospate on occasion but never made a concerted effort to monitor and maintain phosphate levels long term. I have had 2 recent periods of success and thought I was over dinos when they disappeared for months and had signs of green algae on the rocks and glass. After adding a number of frags back to the tank, they bloomed again and I lost most of the frags again. I should have known this was coming when 2 different attempts to start chaeto failed with the chaeto balls fading away. Right after this episode I boosted pH again and the dinos have lessened significantly but are still present.
I am currently giving it another go and have Seachem Flourish Phosphate and Sodium Nitrate on hand and have been dosing the last few days. With adding and monitoring levels, I have noticed how quickly phosphates are being used up, went from 0.7ppm after addition yesterday back to zero today. Nitrates have been holding pretty steady at 5ppm. We will see how things go over the next month or 2 but am hopeful as I do see some green algae on the glass and signs on the rocks. I have also restarted a phyto culture and will be adding phyto daily.
Even though I am hopeful, I have started up a 50 cube that I had sitting in the garage in preparation for moving the remaining corals over after freshwater dips and QT, in the event I am unsuccessful in this latest effort. I will then do a full reboot on the 270 with rock I have been curing along with some fresh live rock. Tank and all equipment will be cleaned and bleached before being set back up. If I do have to reset, none of the corals will go back to the 270. I still need to figure out how to handle the fish, hoping multiple freshwater dips and QT will take care of any dinos on the slime coat.
Regardless of what direction I need to take in the future, I am done with gfo and other chemical treatments. I know many use it with success, but I just push it too far and get in trouble with it. Going forward, skimming, water changes, activated carbon and chaeto or full refugium is what I plan on using for nutrient control.
Any other suggestions you or others may have would definitely be appreciated.
Beardo
Well-Known Member
Thanks.This is no coincidence......strive to keep levels up to 0.10 ppm until you seem the dino's subside.
I need to get a feel for how much and often to dose.
biecacka
Valuable Member
Mcarroll, so are you saying that higher P04 can help overcome Dino's?
That's very interesting because I think most ppl try to drive that number so low. Especially when they are combating dinos. I think people are now seeing some of the ill side effects of driving numbers that low.
Corey
That's very interesting because I think most ppl try to drive that number so low. Especially when they are combating dinos. I think people are now seeing some of the ill side effects of driving numbers that low.
Corey
OP
OP
mcarroll
10K Club member
You're on the right track for sure!
Dose daily almost without question.
Make your dose size small enough to accommodate this.
You also have to be testing every day until you get a feel for it....mostly to prevent zeroing out, but also to know if you've overshot your goal. This may only be for a few days, but it could be a week or more.
- You already know consumption can be as high as 0.7 ppm per day.
- From what I compute, 30 mL of Seachem Phosphorus would raise your tank by 0.05 ppm.
- 30 mL ought to be a very safe daily dose to start with if you want to play conservative. (More than an order of magnitude smaller than consumption.)
- 60 mL would take the tank up to 0.10 ppm, which is your actual goal and which still ought to be very safe (unless you're a dino).
Seaghem has calc right on their site.. on mobile right now but its easy to find.You're on the right track for sure!
Dose daily almost without question.
Make your dose size small enough to accommodate this.
You also have to be testing every day until you get a feel for it....mostly to prevent zeroing out, but also to know if you've overshot your goal. This may only be for a few days, but it could be a week or more.
- You already know consumption can be as high as 0.7 ppm per day.
- From what I compute, 30 mL of Seachem Phosphorus would raise your tank by 0.05 ppm.
- 30 mL ought to be a very safe daily dose to start with if you want to play conservative. (More than an order of magnitude smaller than consumption.)
- 60 mL would take the tank up to 0.10 ppm, which is your actual goal and which still ought to be very safe (unless you're a dino).
mwilk19
Well-Known Member
I'm not really sure where I should be going at this point. I measured my PO4 this morning and it was .07ppm with the Hanna ULR. My NO3 was 5 as of last Friday. My dinos are as bad as they have been since they appeared but my hair algae is growing at a prolific rate. I added chaeto to my sump. I'm guessing that my actual PO4 levels are higher than .07 since the hair algae is growing so quickly. What's the best course of action at this point?
OP
OP
mcarroll
10K Club member
From the history you posted at the opening of your Hair Algae thread, that sounds like a bad start across the board – from the salt to the ich.
FYI, the algae bloom was most likely caused by a spike in nutrients (like from a big addition of fish) not from dissolved nutrients in the water per se. (In other words, it was the change, not the level.) Controlling a bloom by trying to soak up excess nutrients is minimally effective and can be dangerous for some tanks.....especially immature tanks.
Some questions....
(You might consider PM'ing me the answers or starting your own thread.
You're welcome to post the link here if you do that.)Have you still been dosing PO4 and NO3 (and testing) as-needed to keep both from going to zero? Remember that near-zero is probably just as bad as zero.
You mentioned August in two significant sentences....was the tank still fairly new at the time of that post?
Are you still running any or all of that ULNS paraphernalia? If so, I'd stop.....no carbon-source dosing in any form, no GFO, no bacterial supplements, no amino acids, etc.
How is your cleanup crew right now? Can you give us the rundown of what's currently active in the tank?
How is the current livestock? Can you also give a rundown of your main livestock?
You tank has been through some starvation periods as well as a lot of treatments already....this has seemed to permanently compromise some tanks, although your case seems different in terms of the bloom itself and other livestock that's still prevailing.
You mentioned August in two significant sentences....was the tank still fairly new at the time of that post?
Are you still running any or all of that ULNS paraphernalia? If so, I'd stop.....no carbon-source dosing in any form, no GFO, no bacterial supplements, no amino acids, etc.
How is your cleanup crew right now? Can you give us the rundown of what's currently active in the tank?
How is the current livestock? Can you also give a rundown of your main livestock?
You tank has been through some starvation periods as well as a lot of treatments already....this has seemed to permanently compromise some tanks, although your case seems different in terms of the bloom itself and other livestock that's still prevailing.
So what do you guys think this is dinos or do you think it's another algae type? Phosphates are 0.07 and nitrates are 4-8
mwilk19
Well-Known Member
PM sent.From the history you posted at the opening of your Hair Algae thread, that sounds like a bad start across the board – from the salt to the ich.
FYI, the algae bloom was most likely caused by a spike in nutrients (like from a big addition of fish) not from dissolved nutrients in the water per se. (In other words, it was the change, not the level.) Controlling a bloom by trying to soak up excess nutrients is minimally effective and can be dangerous for some tanks.....especially immature tanks.
Some questions....
(You might consider PM'ing me the answers or starting your own thread.
Have you still been dosing PO4 and NO3 (and testing) as-needed to keep both from going to zero? Remember that near-zero is probably just as bad as zero.
You mentioned August in two significant sentences....was the tank still fairly new at the time of that post?
Are you still running any or all of that ULNS paraphernalia? If so, I'd stop.....no carbon-source dosing in any form, no GFO, no bacterial supplements, no amino acids, etc.
How is your cleanup crew right now? Can you give us the rundown of what's currently active in the tank?
How is the current livestock? Can you also give a rundown of your main livestock?
You tank has been through some starvation periods as well as a lot of treatments already....this has seemed to permanently compromise some tanks, although your case seems different in terms of the bloom itself and other livestock that's still prevailing.
Some more pictures.
Velcro
2500 Club Member
Looks like dinos.Some more pictures.
Jolanta
Active Member
Looks like dinos for me tooSome more pictures.
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