Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[mwilk19]

Yup; sorry, but it looks as if you're part of a very dubious "club." Good help and encouragement here!

It's a club that no one wants to be a member of, but here we are.

 

[Velcro]

I'll give it another month before I sell out of the hobby for a while if mine doesn't resolve.

 

[CoralWealth]

Looks like dinos.

Looks like dinos for me too

Yup; sorry, but it looks as if you're part of a very dubious "club." Good help and encouragement here!

Not exactly what I was hoping to see this morning but I expected it. I am not sure which direction I should go after it though as I have nutrients as my phosphates just measured 0.07 yesterday with Hanna ULR and nitrates were between 4-8 on red sea pro.

 

[CoralWealth]

Revisiting this earlier post.


Part 1 continued. Poured Dinos into Display tank on 6/17, 6/20, 6/22, 6/24
Display still Clean and Dino free on 6/27, will update again in a week or so.

Part 2: clearing up dinos in the 2.5 gal nano test tank.
Going pretty well so far.

Video from 6/24 before treatment.


Video from 6/27 after 3 days. Dinos still present, but probably at 1% of their levels 3 days earlier.

Both sets of samples from the stringy masses on the glass.
[edit: the pointy motionless cells attached to the green algae at 21 seconds are diatoms, they've picked up as Dino has faded.]

I'll give full details when the treatment is complete. [emoji4]

Any update on this?

 

[taricha]

Any update on this?

Sure.
Short version is that even 3 weeks after first dose and 2 weeks after last dose of dinos poured in the display tank, zero visible dinos. no strands, mats, brown patches or bubbles.
The tank stayed around 0.10 PO4 and 10 NO3. Dosed Seachem Flourish Phosphorus, and spectracide KNO3, when needed.

The nano tank got the following treatment:
- UV run 24/7
- Decreased photoperiod from like 10 to 6 hrs light
- Blasted surfaces with turkey baster during lights off
- Pull the filter out of waterfall filter and rinse it clean once or twice a day.
- Added elevated nutrient water from display tank every day or two
- After 3 days, and dinos reduced to almost not visible, (second set of pics and videos) did 48hr blackout.
- Added amphipods, and a few munnid isopods to work during blackout.
- Continued blasting off surfaces a couple of times a day.

I then ran uv and blasting surfaces and shorter light period with elevated nutrients for another week or two.

Then I've cut uv off for a week or so to see if there is return of dinos. A very few round dino cells (coolia) and a few cysts are still visible under microscope. Can't find single ostreopsis cell. No dino evidence to naked eye.

Only thing I would have done differently if it had been in a system I valued would be to run lots of GAC to protect from toxins of killing the dinos with UV.

 

[Velcro]

Sure.
Short version is that even 3 weeks after first dose and 2 weeks after last dose of dinos poured in the display tank, zero visible dinos. no strands, mats, brown patches or bubbles.
The tank stayed around 0.10 PO4 and 10 NO3. Dosed Seachem Flourish Phosphorus, and spectracide KNO3, when needed.

The nano tank got the following treatment:
- UV run 24/7
- Decreased photoperiod from like 10 to 6 hrs light
- Blasted surfaces with turkey baster during lights off
- Pull the filter out of waterfall filter and rinse it clean once or twice a day.
- Added elevated nutrient water from display tank every day or two
- After 3 days, and dinos reduced to almost not visible, (second set of pics and videos) did 48hr blackout.
- Added amphipods, and a few munnid isopods to work during blackout.
- Continued blasting off surfaces a couple of times a day.

I then ran uv and blasting surfaces and shorter light period with elevated nutrients for another week or two.

Then I've cut uv off for a week or so to see if there is return of dinos. A very few round dino cells (coolia) and a few cysts are still visible under microscope. Can't find single ostreopsis cell. No dino evidence to naked eye.

Only thing I would have done differently if it had been in a system I valued would be to run lots of GAC to protect from toxins of killing the dinos with UV.

https://www.amazon.com/Jebao-PU-55-...=UTF8&qid=1500403989&sr=8-4&keywords=jebao+uv

Do you think I'd see some value from running this unit with relatively slow flow directly off my display (93 cube). I'm not sure what kind of dinos I have but they seem non toxic as I haven't seen any snails, urchins or fish die. Polyp extension and color is fine on my SPS as well.

Currently at PO4= 0.13 NO3= 5

 

[taricha]

https://www.amazon.com/Jebao-PU-55-...=UTF8&qid=1500403989&sr=8-4&keywords=jebao+uv

Do you think I'd see some value from running this unit with relatively slow flow directly off my display (93 cube). I'm not sure what kind of dinos I have but they seem non toxic as I haven't seen any snails, urchins or fish die. Polyp extension and color is fine on my SPS as well.

Currently at PO4= 0.13 NO3= 5

That's enough power I'd say, and slow flow it would be effective.... UNLESS....
It's Large Cell Amphidinium.

See algaeid.com and check out amphidinium under the identification section. They will not go into water and so UV won't touch them.
If no microscope, at least post pics of dino patches in your tank, maybe can educated guess.

 

[Velcro]

they mostly dissappear at night so I'm pretty sure it's not amphidinium.

 

[CoralWealth]

Sure.
Short version is that even 3 weeks after first dose and 2 weeks after last dose of dinos poured in the display tank, zero visible dinos. no strands, mats, brown patches or bubbles.
The tank stayed around 0.10 PO4 and 10 NO3. Dosed Seachem Flourish Phosphorus, and spectracide KNO3, when needed.

The nano tank got the following treatment:
- UV run 24/7
- Decreased photoperiod from like 10 to 6 hrs light
- Blasted surfaces with turkey baster during lights off
- Pull the filter out of waterfall filter and rinse it clean once or twice a day.
- Added elevated nutrient water from display tank every day or two
- After 3 days, and dinos reduced to almost not visible, (second set of pics and videos) did 48hr blackout.
- Added amphipods, and a few munnid isopods to work during blackout.
- Continued blasting off surfaces a couple of times a day.

I then ran uv and blasting surfaces and shorter light period with elevated nutrients for another week or two.

Then I've cut uv off for a week or so to see if there is return of dinos. A very few round dino cells (coolia) and a few cysts are still visible under microscope. Can't find single ostreopsis cell. No dino evidence to naked eye.

Only thing I would have done differently if it had been in a system I valued would be to run lots of GAC to protect from toxins of killing the dinos with UV.

Awesome.

Do you suggest blasting everything if you are home during the day or will that just make it worse and to wait untill lights are off? It is hard for me to look at the tank and see the dinos by my SPS and not blast it off.

With adding the amphipods, since I have a sump with filter socks I am worried I would most likely just being throwing them away once I change my socks or should I not worry about that? Also I am worried my 3 wrasse and goby would eat them before they could do any serious damage.

 

[taricha]

they mostly dissappear at night so I'm pretty sure it's not amphidinium.

These Amphidinium also seem to disappear at night, as they go down into sand, instead of in the water.

Awesome.
Do you suggest blasting everything if you are home during the day or will that just make it worse and to wait untill lights are off? It is hard for me to look at the tank and see the dinos by my SPS and not blast it off.

Blast all you want. Every time you walk by the tank, if that works for you. Just understand the more rapidly you kill them in the tank, the more GAC needed to address toxins. Blasting is more effective at night, because that's when they want to be in the water column anyway.

With adding the amphipods, since I have a sump with filter socks I am worried I would most likely just being throwing them away once I change my socks or should I not worry about that? Also I am worried my 3 wrasse and goby would eat them before they could do any serious damage.

Yeah, not really worried about filter socks catching them, Amphipods are pretty good about staying attached to substrate. The fish though? yeah those wrasse will decimate your amphipods. If you had a growing population in the sump, I'd add them to the display during lights out and wouldn't bother buying any unless I was running a 2 day blackout to give them a chance to do something without fish interference.

 

[CoralWealth]

These Amphidinium also seem to disappear at night, as they go down into sand, instead of in the water.


Blast all you want. Every time you walk by the tank, if that works for you. Just understand the more rapidly you kill them in the tank, the more GAC needed to address toxins. Blasting is more effective at night, because that's when they want to be in the water column anyway.

Yeah, not really worried about filter socks catching them, Amphipods are pretty good about staying attached to substrate. The fish though? yeah those wrasse will decimate your amphipods. If you had a growing population in the sump, I'd add them to the display during lights out and wouldn't bother buying any unless I was running a 2 day blackout to give them a chance to do something without fish interference.

how much toxins are they actually going to put out? I am hesitant to run carbon or GFO in my tank so that is why I am hesitant

 

[Velcro]

That's enough power I'd say, and slow flow it would be effective.... UNLESS....
It's Large Cell Amphidinium.

See algaeid.com and check out amphidinium under the identification section. They will not go into water and so UV won't touch them.
If no microscope, at least post pics of dino patches in your tank, maybe can educated guess.

I ordered it. Do you know what type of flow I should aim for? I have a spare mj1200 as well as a sicce 2.0. The sicce is too much I think.

 

[taricha]

I ordered it. Do you know what type of flow I should aim for? I have a spare mj1200 as well as a sicce 2.0. The sicce is too much I think.

Slow. Speculative guess. Some people have said success with 200-300 gph.

 

[Velcro]

Slow. Speculative guess. Some people have said success with 200-300 gph.

I'll try it with the mj1200 first then.

 

[taricha]

how much toxins are they actually going to put out? I am hesitant to run carbon or GFO in my tank so that is why I am hesitant

Some do little to none. Some do enough to kill lots of livestock and affect owner health. Chemical warfare is Dinos "A"-game. Protect your tank inhabitants.

 

[mcarroll]

how much toxins are they actually going to put out? I am hesitant to run carbon or GFO in my tank so that is why I am hesitant

Some do little to none. Some do enough to kill lots of livestock and affect owner health. Chemical warfare is Dinos "A"-game. Protect your tank inhabitants.

+1

As @taricha also pointed out to me, carbon has been proven very effective in removing toxins.

If you run some carbon, I always suggest running it conservatively anyway. Run no more than the manufacturer suggests for your size tank, and do not run it any longer than directed.

I don't normally run any chemical media either, but when I do run carbon I commonly run only 1/2 or 1/4 dose. I did run either 1/2 or the whole recommended amount when I was rectifying my own "harmful algae bloom" and I replaced the carbon about every week.

 

[Velcro]

That's enough power I'd say, and slow flow it would be effective.... UNLESS....
It's Large Cell Amphidinium.

See algaeid.com and check out amphidinium under the identification section. They will not go into water and so UV won't touch them.
If no microscope, at least post pics of dino patches in your tank, maybe can educated guess.

Do you think running the UV directly from the display vs from the first sump compartment would make a difference?

 

[taricha]

Do you think running the UV directly from the display vs from the first sump compartment would make a difference?

In the display gives more contact with dinos, but if you have super high turnover between display and sump, the difference might be very small.

 

[Velcro]

Here goes nothing. Running real slow through this.

 

[reeferfoxx]

So.. what do we do when dinos are gone? ;Happy @mcarroll Do I keep N and P up or whats the long term plan?