Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

This was June 22nd


This was July 5th


Today July 14th


Like I was saying early, I haven't basted or stirred the sand in 3 or 4 days. Typically, next day regrowth was much like the July 5th pictures. I've seen a big reduction now in dinos. Not completely gone, but not getting bad like it was.

Coral response has been troubling. I would like to ignore it and focus on getting the tank back to normal but I don't want them to die either. I've been running parameter tests and nothing sticks out.

Today's Tests

• SG 1.026
• Ca 415ppm
• Alk 8.5dkh
• Mag 1350
• NO3 10
• PO4 0.141 (46ppb)

Last week I did some par measurements on corals that weren't looking well. Some of them may have been in under par areas. However, lighting adjustments weren't made during times they were doing well. Here are some examples with par values w/ adjusted par values made 7 days ago.

(Orange Acan Previous PAR 55-60)(New PAR 80)


(Purple Stylo Previous PAR 230)(New PAR 250-255) Lacking polyp extension.. Notice the green algae surrounding.


(ORA Stellar Stylo Previous PAR 240)(New PAR 255-260) Lacking polyp extension


Same goes for the Green Stylo.

(Red Monti Cap. Previous PAR 60)(New PAR 80) Showing white skeletal structure. Little hard to see.


(Neon Green Trumpet Coral) Tissue recession





Some corals are looking great though!

(Tri-Color Valida Previous PAR 225)(New PAR 240) This one has actually rebounded from near total STN. Amazing.


(Red Planet Acro Previous PAR 200)(New PAR 220) Was completely bleached. Now turning green.


(Red with Blue Acan Previous PAR 75)(New PAR 95)


So last water change was June 25th. Since it's been so long and corals on the decline, before performing a water change, I wanted to see if dosing trace elements would ignite dino growth and/or promote coral health. 12 hours after dosing trace elements, I can't say I noticed a change. Forgot to mention coralline algae has been flaking off also. I don't test pH and I don't have a test kit that I would think is accurate enough for this purpose. My assumption would be on the lower side considering the nutrient saturation.

So tomorrow morning, I will perform a water change at 18% water volume. What are other peoples thoughts on maybe doing more of a percentage or more frequent 18%(~5 gallons) changes? Also would doing a sand vacuum help?
Sorry for all the pictures

 

[mcarroll]

I can say that i see about 90%-95% reduction(visually).

Great news!!!

 

[drawman]

This is just my hypothesis, but I think the water change theory is due to the reaction to a sudden drop in nutrients, not some trace mineral necessarily in the salt mix itself. I think dinoflagellates have developed the ability to take advantage of any sudden decrease in N and P, but other organisms struggle. Again, purely conjecture...

This was my thought as well. It would be interesting to predose water change water with NO3 and PO4 so that these nutrients don't change.

I did a PO4 test finally today and I have bottomed out. I added enough PO4 to achieve a concentration of roughly .04ppm. I won't be able to test against until Monday but I expect that to get used up at least partially. I'm not surprised as I have little algae growth. I will keep an eye on NO3 as well. Thinking of getting my skimmer going again but with no fish I don't want to make the tank too clean. Maybe it will help with toxins, thoughts? I despise what these guys do to acros :mad:

 

[K. Steven]

This was my thought as well. It would be interesting to predose water change water with NO3 and PO4 so that these nutrients don't change.

I did a PO4 test finally today and I have bottomed out. I added enough PO4 to achieve a concentration of roughly .04ppm. I won't be able to test against until Monday but I expect that to get used up at least partially. I'm not surprised as I have little algae growth. I will keep an eye on NO3 as well. Thinking of getting my skimmer going again but with no fish I don't want to make the tank too clean. Maybe it will help with toxins, thoughts? I despise what these guys do to acros :mad:

I skimmed while dosing PO4 since it can't be skimmed out. It helped keep the dissolved organics to a minimum while I maintained my heavy feeding regimen. I'm not sure what dinos you have, but mine (Ostreopsis sp.) did not show any toxic effect (no dead snails), which is odd for Ostreopsis. I believe toxins can only be removed with carbon, which is often advised for dino infestations, though I did not use it.

Since you are fishless now, you could maintain N and P by dosing. This was suggested to me by @taricha because dinos have difficulty utilizing inorganic N and P and algae is able to metabolize it more efficiently. I would maintain sufficient N and P via dosing to allow your microfauna to flourish and snack on some green algae while you wait to stock fish.

 

[Peng]

This

How old is your tank? How old are these rocks? How stable has your alk been?

 

[reeferfoxx]

How old is your tank? How old are these rocks? How stable has your alk been?

1 year 5m 13d. Rocks are brs dry rock(mined rock). On average alk is stable.

 

[Peng]

1 year 5m 13d. Rocks are brs dry rock(mined rock). On average alk is stable.

I dont know what to suggest unfortunately...as in my case the nutrient method worked (took several months though).

 

[drawman]

I skimmed while dosing PO4 since it can't be skimmed out. It helped keep the dissolved organics to a minimum while I maintained my heavy feeding regimen. I'm not sure what dinos you have, but mine (Ostreopsis sp.) did not show any toxic effect (no dead snails), which is odd for Ostreopsis. I believe toxins can only be removed with carbon, which is often advised for dino infestations, though I did not use it.

Since you are fishless now, you could maintain N and P by dosing. This was suggested to me by @taricha because dinos have difficulty utilizing inorganic N and P and algae is able to metabolize it more efficiently. I would maintain sufficient N and P via dosing to allow your microfauna to flourish and snack on some green algae while you wait to stock fish.

My thoughts exactly. I am still feeding to keep bacteria going and corals happy but I will manage nutrients through dosing. My siporax is too good at reducing nutrients it seems. I was thinking getting DOCs down with skimming can't hurt. I may have to dust off my carbon reactor too.

 

[Jolanta]

This is just my hypothesis, but I think the water change theory is due to the reaction to a sudden drop in nutrients, not some trace mineral necessarily in the salt mix itself. I think dinoflagellates have developed the ability to take advantage of any sudden decrease in N and P, but other organisms struggle. Again, purely conjecture...

I cant agree with this point couse I was syphoning my dinos with air tubing every week or so and to avoid water changes I decided replacing with fresh water and after some time of doing that my salinity droped to 1023, I saw a great improvement in dino control and I didnt wanted to do any water change but I needed to get up my salinity again, so I just started replacing evaporated water with salt water, you cant say about nutrient drop couse I didnt took any water out and after maybe a 2 days of putting new saltwater I had a bad ostreopsis bloom.

 

[K. Steven]

I cant agree with this point couse I was syphoning my dinos with air tubing every week or so and to avoid water changes I decided replacing with fresh water and after some time of doing that my salinity droped to 1023, I saw a great improvement in dino control and I didnt wanted to do any water change but I needed to get up my salinity again, so I just started replacing evaporated water with salt water, you cant say about nutrient drop couse I didnt took any water out and after maybe a 2 days of putting new saltwater I had a bad ostreopsis bloom.

What is the TDS of your source water you were using to make the saltwater? The increase in salinity is another variable that may have allowed them to reappear. The source water quality or the sudden salinity increase may have been favorable for your species of Ostreopsis.

 

[Jolanta]

What is the TDS of your source water you were using to make the saltwater? The increase in salinity is another variable that may have allowed them to reappear. The source water quality or the sudden salinity increase may have been favorable for your species of Ostreopsis.

Maybe you are right but I have my RoDI unit, my water always shows 0 tds and it was not sudden increase of salinity couse I put about 5 liters of water a day with evaporation and in 2 days it really didnt do that much to up my salinity in 700 liters system, I really think its something in salt make them rebloom but who knows. Also at the end of the existance of my tank my nitrates were 30 and my phosphate about 0.09 and ostreopsis was as happy as never. I think it help to control them with nutrients when you have a right microfauna to reproduce and take over them but if your tank dont have them you can rise your nutrients way to high and they will be still thriving

 

[fragit]

Finally got around to testing my parameters this morning. Dinos still on the retreat and tank is 90% clear. Getting some red slime algae on some of the rocks. I have green algae growing on the glass for the first time in a couple months. Corals are starting to open up more. Tank is looking good!

This is what I have done just to recap. Changed all Ro/DI filters. Got some rubble and grunge from my LFS. Took out all phosphate removal media, and changed out carbon. Micro bubbling at night, skimmer runs 24/7. Feeding at least 2 cubes frozen daily. 4 day black out before the 4th of July(dinos came back). No more stirring the sand bed. Last water change was sometime early June. That's it, oh and lots of hope and positive thinking.

Alk 8.9dkh, Ca 380, Nitrate around 12ppm, Phosphate at 0.015ppm, salinity 1.026, temp77-78, PH need to re calibrate. Interesting thing about phosphate is last time I checked it was 0.05 and at that time I was running phosphate minus. Now with no media it has dropped.

 

[K. Steven]

Maybe you are right but I have my RoDI unit, my water always shows 0 tds and it was not sudden increase of salinity couse I put about 5 liters of water a day with evaporation and in 2 days it really didnt do that much to up my salinity in 700 liters system, I really think its something in salt make them rebloom but who knows. Also at the end of the existance of my tank my nitrates were 30 and my phosphate about 0.09 and ostreopsis was as happy as never. I think it help to control them with nutrients when you have a right microfauna to reproduce and take over them but if your tank dont have them you can rise your nutrients way to high and they will be still thriving

I agree about the microfauna. I dumped a lot of pods, stopped skimming to increase detritus, and dosed a lot of phyto to help them reproduce. That may have something to do with me getting rid of mine.

 

[drawman]

I cant agree with this point couse I was syphoning my dinos with air tubing every week or so and to avoid water changes I decided replacing with fresh water and after some time of doing that my salinity droped to 1023, I saw a great improvement in dino control and I didnt wanted to do any water change but I needed to get up my salinity again, so I just started replacing evaporated water with salt water, you cant say about nutrient drop couse I didnt took any water out and after maybe a 2 days of putting new saltwater I had a bad ostreopsis bloom.

You could always run the other end of the airline into a filter sock in your sump. Then take out the sock that way you don't have to try to make up additional NSW.

 

[Jolanta]

You could always run the other end of the airline into a filter sock in your sump. Then take out the sock that way you don't have to try to make up additional NSW.

I tired down my tank some time ago and starting new, my patience was over and I really nuked my tank trying all those crazy methods from the other post. Thats my new baby, wish me look for dinos to stay away, at least ostreopsis.

 

[mwilk19]

I tired down my tank some time ago and starting new, my patience was over and I really nuked my tank trying all those crazy methods from the other post. Thats my new baby, wish me look for dinos to stay away, at least ostreopsis.

Jolanta, is this an entirely new tank or a restart on your previous tank? I had beaten back the dinos back in May and like you I used saltwater in my ATO to bring my salinity back up. Bam, they're back again with a vengeance. I'm trying to use a more natural method employing chaeto for nutrient control instead of adding a lot of chemicals. I'm just hoping the majority of my corals survive long enough for it to take effect. Love your aquascaping.

 

[Jolanta]

Jolanta, is this an entirely new tank or a restart on your previous tank? I had beaten back the dinos back in May and like you I used saltwater in my ATO to bring my salinity back up. Bam, they're back again with a vengeance. I'm trying to use a more natural method employing chaeto for nutrient control instead of adding a lot of chemicals. I'm just hoping the majority of my corals survive long enough for it to take effect. Love your aquascaping.

Thank you very much Mwilk19. I restarted my old tank, bleached all the rocks and filed the tank with fresh water and a lot of bleach, also my equipment, I hope none of the ostreopsis survive this, I want to quarantine all my fish and corals before puting them in the tank and hope for the best. My idea is to seed my tank with some sand and rocks from a healthy system and have this new tank the more natural as I can, no gfo, only chaeto and skimmer if its necesary. I promised me never use any chemicals in my tank again even if all swear its reef save so I need to quarantine and think twice before I put something inside of it. Best of luck for you and your new fight! What dinos you had and how did you restarted?

 

[mwilk19]

Thank you very much Mwilk19. I restarted my old tank, bleached all the rocks and filed the tank with fresh water and a lot of bleach, also my equipment, I hope none of the ostreopsis survive this, I want to quarantine all my fish and corals before puting them in the tank and hope for the best. My idea is to seed my tank with some sand and rocks from a healthy system and have this new tank the more natural as I can, no gfo, only chaeto and skimmer if its necesary. I promised me never use any chemicals in my tank again even if all swear its reef save so I need to quarantine and think twice before I put something inside of it. Best of luck for you and your new fight! What dinos you had and how did you restarted?

I don't have a microscope but they appear to be osteos. I was originally dosing Vibrant and H2O2 when they receded the last time. I tested yesterday and my NO3 was 5 and my PO4 was .14 but it has to be higher than that because I have quite a bit of hair algae in one part of my tank that I'm sure is using a lot of phosphate. All I can do is to keep plugging along. Good luck with your restart. No more dinos.

 

[RamsReef]

2 rounds of 4 days of dosing metro wotked for me....

 

[mwilk19]

2 rounds of 4 days of dosing metro wotked for me....

I know that some people have had success with metro and others haven't. I'd make that my method of last resort. That being said, I'm not going to lose the tank before trying it. How large of a tank do you have and what dosage did you use?