The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[DudeBruh]

@Paul B Thanks for sharing, took me a while to get through, but enjoyed the read. In a hobby that changes so much, Maybe one day the norm will be using vaccination tanks to slowly introduce captive bred fish to all the parasites of the ocean . Instead of treating fish flu with Chemo. Always enjoy the biodiversity debate. After reading If nothing else my fish will be getting a better diet as this seems to be a cross the board “good”.

Would you mind sharing your thoughts on bottled bacteria, things like “Miracle/ Fiji mud” ( for those who aren’t coastal). And your tank size stock amount?

 

[Paul B]

DudeBruh. I don't know much about bottled bacteria but I know bacteria is a living thing that needs food, oxygen and maybe Netflex so I am not sure how long it will live in a bottle, so I go with real bacteria that is all over the place and free.
I also never used miracle mud preferring to collect my own mud. I am not a good source of information about a lot of commercial "Miracle" products.

My tank is 125 gallons that is stocked with mostly LPS but I have 3 or 4 SPS and a bunch of gorgonians.
There is a copperband butterfly
2 dragon faced pipefish
2 bluestripe pipefish
2 mandarins
1 scooter bleeny
2 or 3 other bleenies
1 clown gobi
2 fireclowns
1 Janss pipefish
2 gecko gobies
1 perchlet
2 red fish that I have no idea what they are
3 Queen anthius
1 watchman gobi
1 yellow wrasse
1 purple friedmondi ?


I am sure I missed 2 or 3 as I am not near the tank now.
There is also a large long spined urchin, maybe 10 different crabs and some local mud snails

 

[DudeBruh]

Thanks for the response and sharing your success. Best of luck going forward.... and hopefully the bacteria will start chipping in for the Netflix bill

DudeBruh. I don't know much about bottled bacteria but I know bacteria is a living thing that needs food, oxygen and maybe Netflex so I am not sure how long it will live in a bottle, so I go with real bacteria that is all over the place and free.
I also never used miracle mud preferring to collect my own mud. I am not a good source of information about a lot of commercial "Miracle" products.

My tank is 125 gallons that is stocked with mostly LPS but I have 3 or 4 SPS and a bunch of gorgonians.
There is a copperband butterfly
2 dragon faced pipefish
2 bluestripe pipefish
2 mandarins
1 scooter bleeny
2 or 3 other bleenies
1 clown gobi
2 fireclowns
1 Janss pipefish
2 gecko gobies
1 perchlet
2 red fish that I have no idea what they are
3 Queen anthius
1 watchman gobi
1 yellow wrasse
1 purple friedmondi ?


I am sure I missed 2 or 3 as I am not near the tank now.
There is also a large long spined urchin, maybe 10 different crabs and some local mud snails

or

 

[lapin]

After reading all this here is what I got.
There are many ways to run a reef tank.
Everybody has a different way. (maybe because everybody didnt eat the same amount of dirt)
Some ways work for some and not for others.
Everybody likes to chime in.

 

[vlangel]

Thanks Paul and great article. Those of us that kept fish before the internet pretty much all did what you did.

I will confess to QT new fish a half a week with live rock from my reef just to observe them eating well without bullying. If I could get a fish to eat and live the first 2 weeks in my display then usually I had them longer than I wanted to, ( like you I sometimes get bored with them). I have found QT them just a few days with lots of hiding places increases my chances of them eating. I never use meds on them however and like you I want their immune systems to strengthen. Its the same reason I never use hand sanitizer or antiseptic wipes. I want to stengthen my own immune system to common germs and viruses. I have only used antibiotics once in the last 40 years and that was for an abscessed tooth, (Sorry I am just not that tough). I also avoid all these immunizations for things like shingles, ect... I am not anti-shots and my children were vaccinated for measles, diptheria, pertussis but it's way out of balance now in my humble opinion. But alas I am way off topic. Back to your article...

I really like your thoughts on using virgin garden soil. I have been contemplating doing that for the nutrient content but had not considered the bacterias in it. It makes sense though since silt from the rivers flowing into the ocean replenishes dirt in the ocean.

Thanks again Paul for sharing your long time experience with us.

 

[Jay Norris]

DudeBruh. I don't know much about bottled bacteria but I know bacteria is a living thing that needs food, oxygen and maybe Netflex so I am not sure how long it will live in a bottle, so I go with real bacteria that is all over the place and free.
I also never used miracle mud preferring to collect my own mud. I am not a good source of information about a lot of commercial "Miracle" products.

My tank is 125 gallons that is stocked with mostly LPS but I have 3 or 4 SPS and a bunch of gorgonians.
There is a copperband butterfly
2 dragon faced pipefish
2 bluestripe pipefish
2 mandarins
1 scooter bleeny
2 or 3 other bleenies
1 clown gobi
2 fireclowns
1 Janss pipefish
2 gecko gobies
1 perchlet
2 red fish that I have no idea what they are
3 Queen anthius
1 watchman gobi
1 yellow wrasse
1 purple friedmondi ?


I am sure I missed 2 or 3 as I am not near the tank now.
There is also a large long spined urchin, maybe 10 different crabs and some local mud snails

Hi Paul, my fish also love Netflix, but on a serious note, well maybe not, did you start your system with live rock, sand, and mud or other bacteria infested material from the Ocean? I believe a lot of the problems people are having with their systems is they are setting up their new systems with dead rock, sand and anything else you could add to your tank when you start them up. When you go the sterile life way when starting up a system, you are losing so much of the flora, and fauna that your fish and corals that you will eventually put in your system, are use to, thus putting a lot more stress on them, which effects their immune system. Then when we acquire said corals and fish, after the tank has been running for at least 6 months or so, it seems a lot of people feed them flake or pellet foods, which may have all the ingredients needed to keep the animals alive, but not truly thriving like live or high quality frozen foods, thus affecting their immune systems. Next time some of you on here get a chance to go diving on a Coral Reef, like someone said earlier, just sit on the bottom near a Coral Head and observe what is happening with the Fish and other wildlife on the Coral Head. Besides being a lot of fun, you should learn a lot about how the animals live in their small environment, and try to emulate as much of that as possible in your system. I know we can never have a closed system react like the Ocean but every little bit you can do to emulate the conditions in the Ocean the better your system will be. My next big system will be an open system, with direct flow from the Ocean, I can't wait for that to happen, but it will be a few years down the road, as I have not found a place so far in the U.S. that has clean enough water along the shore line to do it.

 

[Paul B]

Jay, there was no live rock in 1971 but I did use real rock that I collected in Hawaii and the Caribbean. I had to bleach it in my hotel room before I brought it on the plane. But I did use NSW from the East River in NYC. There was plenty of mud in it along with God Knows what. I also used driveway gravel.
There is an article on here about how I started my tank.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-i-got-started-in-the-hobby-in-1971.177/

 

[Neptune 555]

Paul / Humblefish,

I have followed you both for years... thanks for your dedication to progressing the hobby!

You both seem to have access to the moderators at reef2reef. I propose we create a few poll questions for the entire forum to respond with their answers. This won't provide scientific data but it will provide information to help in deciding how to run our tanks. Paul - I don't think your challenge/question was answered re: show me the old fish from the QT process. I propose that reefers who are very pleased with the QT process may not be reading a thread the alternative way to run a reef? Or please direct me to the moderators... I am unsure how to request a poll or where to go to see all the poll answers en masse?

Do you have fish many fish over 15 years old? (is that old enough - I had thought about using 10 years?) IF YES...

Do you feed live food? Yes / No

a. I follow a strict QT protocol and am sure I have an ich free environment
b. I QT some fish and some fish I put in the DT directly. I have ich in my tank and see white spots sometimes but they go away on the fish. I don't run filtration to manage ich.
c. I QT some fish and some fish I put in the DT directly. I have ich in my tank and see white spots sometimes but they go away on the fish. I run other systems to reduce pathogens like UV/Ozone.
d. I QT some fish and some fish I put in the DT directly I have ich in my tank and see white spots sometimes but they go away on the fish. I run other systems to reduce pathogens like UV/Ozone. I also add NSW and/or natural mud.

Would be interesting where on the spectrum reefers with 15 year old fish sit. thanks!

Neptune!

 

[MnFish1]

@PaulB - this is written in then context of your article which was titled 'the other way to run a reef tank (no quarantine) - its is not designed to discuss your entire method of reefing - which I've praised several times in several threads. For those of you that don't enjoy long posts - skip this one. But im only trying to bring up an interesting discussion.

I never said adding garden soil will do anything for immunity and I didn't invent that concept. The soil or mud is for biological diversity to give a more natural tank. If you have a quarantined tank and you never add any bacteria, the only bacteria you have in there is from your hands, food and the stuff from the LFS. The lfs only has bacteria from the wholesaler and they have the bacteria from the bottom of the canoe from the guy who collected the fish, so you may have a little athletes foot bacteria in there also. If you are worried about contaminants from soil, do something else. The ocean has every bacteria and contaminant in it and if a spoonful of soil where you live has so much contamination in it that you are worried about adding that to your tank, maybe you should move away from "Love Canal".

Im not sure who brought up garden soil or why - perhaps because they have no access to sea mud. But - Question: How does adding mud to the tank relate to the ability to not use QT methods (the topic of the article). Bacteria that live in the sea are not present in the soil in Iowa (for the most part) - so are you really adding 'biodiversity' if you add soil from Iowa to your tank? There is some 'overlap' between bacteria from the midwest and bacteria from the ocean - of course - but - for people living in the midwest - or who do not live within miles of the coast this seems like a non-helpful recommendation (i.e. is not another way to 'run a tank' without quarantine)

There was an experiment which I am sure yo heard of. It was some kind of Biodome where they carefully added certain fish, animals, bacteria and insects with no new influx of new diversity. It was supposed to be a self contained, self regulating, system that would keep going on it's own, making it's own oxygen and food from the plants. It was meant to be self sustaining. It failed. The people inside almost starved, Oxygen had to be added and most of the insects were taken over by ants. That's what happens if you don't add natural things from the environment.
The scientists who developed that concept didn't have the common sense to get it right. I knew that as soon as I learned about it.

I wasn't going to mention this because it's a bit off topic of the article - but there are significant differences between that experiment and a reef tank. In short - they literally tried to re-create an 'earth' and sealed animals/plants etc inside. It was to be self sustaining entirely - no food was added etc. In our tanks - we add food, we add and take out coral, waste products, fish, etc. We are always adding and taking away biodiversity and supplying energy. Every reef tank does this - You cannot suggest that your tank 'is like nature and biodiverse' and others are 'like the biodome' - because in reality NO reef tank is like the biodome experiment (with or without your methods).

I also never said that if you are immune from YYY, XXX or Lady GaGa you will also be immune to HHH, RRR or Myley CyrusWe all know that. In my miniscule mind I know the difference between a parasite and a bacteria and if you are immune from one, you will not n. ecessarily be immune from the other. There are studies that suggest that fish can be immune from one parasite and also be immune to similar parasites but I don't know that researcher and maybe his other job is in Chuck E Cheese so I am not sure if he is correct.

1. I love (honestly) when you put touches like the one with Lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus in your writing - it makes it interesting
2. Never said you have a minuscule mind
3. You use terms like 'pathogen' and 'bacteria' interchangeably as if they are the same (you say you add pathogens to your tank). I say there is no way you can know that with your mehods that you are adding 'pathogens' (you are certainly adding bacteria) - and provided reasons (freezing) why you probably do not. This relates directly to your article - and is my main question - how do you know that you are adding 'pathogens' as you say in your article - and if you are - how do you know you are adding the 'right' pathogens.
4. There have been multiple studies - which you seemingly ignore - stating that adding a culture of new bacteria into an established tank will not add biodiversity. This is either because the bacteria in the tank already will be 'taken over' - or - the new bacteria will not establish itself. So - what is the reason for adding 'new bacteria'. Where is the old bacteria going? If as @brandon429 suspects every surface in a tank will be colonized with bacteria. If you add more - you may not be adding any biodiversity. Adding sand from Fiji to a tank containing mostly rock/fish/coral from Florida will not add biodiversity - the new bacteria will likely not survive - OR - may contain parasites to which the fish from Florida are not immune.

In this thread I posted what "I" do and have been doing for a long time. You can take parts of it and dissect them and say things like Ozone, UV sterilization, UG filters, algae scrubbers, diatom filters or mud and think that Is the key. But as I said numerous times, I don't use UV, my ozone has not been running in 5 months and I use a diatom filter a couple of hours a year for maintenance. If that is the key, do that.

This thread is about "My" thoughts on how to run a successful tank with no quarantine. I was asked to write it by Humblefish who believes strongly in quarantine and I totally respect his theories and never add my own thoughts into his threads that I made up from the dark recesses of my mind.

The reason to 'dissect your method' - is that most people don't have access to the things in your method. So - its a way to try to pick out the things one can do (at least in my case). And - I think since you're writing the article - you should be willing to answer questions that come up and the logic behind the answers. Otherwise - with all respect to you and @Humblefish - there was no reason for the article. In other words - if the only way to succeed with a reef tank is to add buckets of seawater periodically - ie to keep an 'immune tank' and feed live shellfish 99% of the people in the US/world will not have access to that - and will not be able to keep an 'immune tank'. So what's the point of the article? Except that is interesting to see how one person can do it. The reason to dissect it - and pick out the most important features is so others can succeed as well - its not meant as criticism.

You have to quote people correctly or at least try to see what their thoughts are and not imply that he means something else.Of course I can't see the parasite or bacteria, but being I have quite a bit of experience I can draw from that experience from dozens of cases and come up with an answer that seems plausible.

Each time I've quoted you - I've quoted your entire post - or most of it. You use terms like 'pathogen' and 'bacteria' interchangeably as if they are the same (you say you add pathogens to your tank). I say there is no way you can know that - and provided reasons (freezing) why you probably do not. When you say 'pathogen' do you mean pathogenic bacteria, pathogenic parasites, pathogenic viruses? Given that CI and velvet dont do well after freezing - nor do many bacteria - how is adding frozen food different from pellets (i.e. you're not adding pathogens).

Apologetically - When you say 'immune' - you know what you mean - but it is so general that no one else can know. When you say no QT - what does QT mean - what is your definition - because there are perhaps 100 ways to do it - with and without medications.

Since the article is about keeping an immune reef without QT – it seems it would be nice to know what that means to you specifically.

My tank is 100% immune from maybe everything. People don't like it when I say that. If one fish died from any disease I couldn't say that, but they didn't so, yes, I can say that. My tank may crash soon, but if it does, it has had one heck of a ride and I wouldn't call it or my methods a failure.

If your tank is 'immune from maybe everything' - I'd like to see you do the following - take 50 fish with velvet or CI and add them to your tank and see what happens. Or take a lethal dose of CI (there is lots of data as to how many will kill nearly all fish) - and add that dose. Adding a clownfish with CI to a 400 gallon tank for example is not the same as adding one clownfish with CI to a 20 gallon tank that is stocked with fish.

Weather or not I can communicate how I achieved this success may be a matter of debate and some of it is semantics. But in my high school mind, these are the methods I use. Dissect it all you want, but if your fish are not immune, you are not doing it right. I am trying to use my experience to teach. I don't know all the answers but it seems I know enough of them.

You are acting as if the fact that you didnt go to college is somehow a being held against you. You are obviously a pHD in reef keeping. There is no doubting that. There is also no doubt that you are successful in keeping the kind of reef tank you like. But - when it comes to trying to use your methods - I find it difficult to understand. And its because of sentences like this above: 'but if your fish are not immune, you are not doing it right.' Again 'what is immune?' (whether you want to believe it or not - no fish is immune to everything) and there is no way to determine whether your fish is 'immune or not' - so there is no way to determine if one is 'doing it right'. A healthy well fed low stressed fish in a low stocked tank will have a much stronger immune system than one who is crowded, starving etc. If there are methods to remove pathogens from the crowded starving fish - they will also have an advantage. IMHO.

 

[Jay Norris]

Jay, there was no live rock in 1971 but I did use real rock that I collected in Hawaii and the Caribbean. I had to bleach it in my hotel room before I brought it on the plane. But I did use NSW from the East River in NYC. There was plenty of mud in it along with God Knows what. I also used driveway gravel.
There is an article on here about how I started my tank.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-i-got-started-in-the-hobby-in-1971.177/

Yes we were lucky where I lived, back when I started, we could collect live rock from the reefs of South Florida, and I still have some in my system that must be close to 40yrs old. Sorry no river water or mud, but live sand and water collected from the Outer Reefs, and Gulfstream.

 

[MnFish1]

I never use meds on them however and like you I want their immune systems to strengthen. Its the same reason I never use hand sanitizer or antiseptic wipes. I want to stengthen my own immune system to common germs and viruses. I have only used antibiotics once in the last 40 years and that was for an abscessed tooth, (Sorry I am just not that tough). I also avoid all these immunizations for things like shingles, ect... I am not anti-shots and my children were vaccinated for measles, diptheria, pertussis but it's way out of balance now in my humble opinion. But alas I am way off topic. Back to your article...

Actually - I think this is a perfect message for this thread. There is a reason that people in the 1700's major cause of death was 'infection' and the average age of death was much lower. It was not because there was too much cleanliness. It was also not because the immune systems were not well developed. It was crowded conditions, poor nutrition lack of disinfection and no vaccination, no antibiotics. So - though there seems to be a movement in many areas to forget these facts - they are facts. The reason this relates so well to @PaulB s article - is that you - have been lucky and probably have a strong immune system. I guarantee you though - its not because you don't use hand sanitizer and avoid vaccines IMHO. My guess is that if you went into a cholera epidemic and drank the water you would get just as sick as the average person.

That said there are many studies showing that in children especially - they have more problems if kept in too sterile an environment at a young age.

 

[Paul B]

MN, There are just too many things for me to respond to as I have another life. But I will address this one. I do use the terms interchangeably because that's how I interpret pathogens and apparently so does Wikipedia.

Each time I've quoted you - I've quoted your entire post - or most of it. You use terms like 'pathogen' and 'bacteria' interchangeably as if they are the same (you say you add pathogens to your tank).

Pathogen
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to navigation Jump to search
For other uses, see Pathogen (disambiguation).
In biology, a pathogen (Greek: πάθος pathos "suffering, passion" and -γενής -genēs "producer of"), infectious agent, or a germ in the oldest and broadest sense is anything that can produce disease; the term came into use in the 1880s.[1][2] Typically the term is used to describe an infectious microorganism or agent, such as a virus, bacterium, protozoa, prion, or fungus.[3][4] The scientific study of these organisms is called microbiology, while the study of disease that may include these pathogens is called pathology.

There are several substrates including pathways where the pathogens can invade a host. The principal pathways have different episodic time frames, but soil has the longest or most persistent potential for harboring a pathogen. Diseases caused by organisms in humans are known as pathogenic diseases.

If your tank is 'immune from maybe everything' - I'd like to see you do the following - take 50 fish with velvet or CI and add them to your tank and see what happens.

The only thing that would happen is the tank would be over crowded. But you can do that in your tank if you like.

You are acting as if the fact that you didnt go to college is somehow a being held against you.

No, I am proud of that and feel sorry for many people who went to college and work too many hours for little pay with no hope of retirement, pension or free medical. If I went to college I would be an electrical engineer making half the money for twice the hours with no end in sight. No thanks.

'but if your fish are not immune, you are not doing it right.' Again 'what is immune?

I stand by that just like I stand by If your fish are not only dying of old age, you are doing it wrong. Immune means in the entire lifespan of a fish from birth to dying of old age, it was never sick. That is the only explanation of immune. Period and if your professor disagrees, he can go back to the farm and bail hay.

When you say no QT - what does QT mean - what is your definition - because there are perhaps 100 ways to do it - with and without medications.

Quarantine in this thread means separating the fish for 72 days as is what is proposed to kill parasites.

The reason to 'dissect your method' - is that most people don't have access to the things in your method.

Which method? The not quarantining part or live whiteworms that I bought online and cultured. Or is it the garden soil, the reverse UG filter or keeping parasites in your tank without medication.

Given that CI and velvet dont do well after freezing - nor do many bacteria - how is adding frozen food different from pellets (i.e. you're not adding pathogens).

Frozen foods like the ones I stated are full of not only bacteria but the guts of fish where all the minerals and oil is. Bacteria is not killed in a home freezer, if it was frozen food when thawed in a sealed container would not rot, but it does.
Parasites are killed in a freezer that's why I like to add my fish right from an LFS.

Im not sure who brought up garden soil or why - perhaps because they have no access to sea mud.

I said, I did not invent the garden soil thing. That was Robert Straughn "The Father of Salt Water Keeping" and the author of "The Salt Water Aquarium in the Home" He was one of the first pioneers and who I learned from. So if you disagree with garden soil, argue with him. He died many years ago.

But I can't address every sentence that you dissect from your post. I don't have the time or ambition. This is my method, what can I tell you.

 

[MnFish1]

MN, There are just too many things for me to respond to as I have another life. But I will address this one. I do use the terms interchangeably because that's how I interpret pathogens and apparently so does Wikipedia.




Pathogen
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to navigation Jump to search
For other uses, see Pathogen (disambiguation).
In biology, a pathogen (Greek: πάθος pathos "suffering, passion" and -γενής -genēs "producer of"), infectious agent, or a germ in the oldest and broadest sense is anything that can produce disease; the term came into use in the 1880s.[1][2] Typically the term is used to describe an infectious microorganism or agent, such as a virus, bacterium, protozoa, prion, or fungus.[3][4] The scientific study of these organisms is called microbiology, while the study of disease that may include these pathogens is called pathology.

There are several substrates including pathways where the pathogens can invade a host. The principal pathways have different episodic time frames, but soil has the longest or most persistent potential for harboring a pathogen. Diseases caused by organisms in humans are known as pathogenic diseases.



The only thing that would happen is the tank would be over crowded. But you can do that in your tank if you like.



No, I am proud of that and feel sorry for many people who went to college and work too many hours for little pay with no hope of retirement, pension or free medical. If I went to college I would be an electrical engineer making half the money for twice the hours with no end in sight. No thanks.



I stand by that just like I stand by If your fish are not only dying of old age, you are doing it wrong. Immune means in the entire lifespan of a fish from birth to dying of old age, it was never sick. That is the only explanation of immune. Period and if your professor disagrees, he can go back to the farm and bail hay.


Quarantine in this thread means separating the fish for 72 days as is what is proposed to kill parasites.



Which method? The not quarantining part or live whiteworms that I bought online and cultured. Or is it the garden soil, the reverse UG filter or keeping parasites in your tank without medication.



Frozen foods like the ones I stated are full of not only bacteria but the guts of fish where all the minerals and oil is. Bacteria is not killed in a home freezer, if it was frozen food when thawed in a sealed container would not rot, but it does.
Parasites are killed in a freezer that's why I like to add my fish right from an LFS.


I said, I did not invent the garden soil thing. That was Robert Straughn "The Father of Salt Water Keeping" and the author of "The Salt Water Aquarium in the Home" He was one of the first pioneers and who I learned from. So if you disagree with garden soil, argue with him. He died many years ago.

But I can't address every sentence that you dissect from your post. I don't have the time or ambition. This is my method, what can I tell you.

Thanks Paul. Appreciate your answers. One response I'll make is that I dont think most (or anyone) here defines quarantine the way you do above: Quarantine in this thread means separating the fish for 72 days as is what is proposed to kill parasites.

The rest I'll leave for others to discuss

 

[theMeat]

Quarantine in this thread means separating the fish for 72 days as is what is proposed to kill parasites.

The rest I'll leave for others to discuss

Not really sure how you can speak for how or what everyone has or does take qt to mean in this thread or otherwise.
For me qt means just that, and what you describe is a hospital tank.

 

[Japtastic]

For Ich it does seem like most of the advice here (if you’ve found Ich in your DT) is to QT for 72 days as that’s how long the advice is to leave the DT fallow. Medication may only last 30 days but where do the fish go after that? They stay in the same QT until the DT is ready...

 

[DrewBrees713]

I agreed and to a lesser extend disagree with the OP. Some fish will simply fight off ich on its own, while other will succumb (i.e tangs, angels, other delicate fish)

 

[atoll]

I agreed and to a lesser extend disagree with the OP. Some fish will simply fight off ich on its own, while other will succumb (i.e tangs, angels, other delicate fish)

IME tangs and angels can fight itch off (and should do) provided the condition and care are right. My Royal gramnas which are known to be itch magnets are able to rid themselves of it within 36 hours of intriduction to the DT.

 

[soflmuddin]

I currently have 3 tangs that are "immune". Right now the only fish in my 180 to have any visible signs of ich is a puffer that has been in the tank for 2 months and he has less and less spots every week. All my fish are wild caught by me except for two trigger fish. There are 30+ fish and 5 moray in my tank and nothing has ever been quarantined. They came straight from ocean and into my tank. Most will show signs of ich within 3-5 days and usually clear up by two weeks. All survive, even the tangs.

 

[atoll]

I currently have 3 tangs that are "immune". Right now the only fish in my 180 to have any visible signs of ich is a puffer that has been in the tank for 3 months and he has less and less spots every week. All my fish are wild caught by me except for two trigger fish. There are 30+ fish and 5 moray in my tank and nothing has ever been quarantined. They came straight from ocean and into my tank. Most will show signs of ich within 3-5 days and usually clear up by two weeks. All survive, even the tangs.

See it's not so difficult, you me Paul and a few others are in the same club.

 

[Paul B]

You both seem to have access to the moderators at reef2reef. I propose we create a few poll questions for the entire forum to respond with their answers.

Neptune, Humble fish is a Mod or something on this forum, Fish Whisperer or something like that. I am just an old bald retired electrician guy with a fish tank so he would be the person to ask.