Should we take things more seriously?

[Purpletang92]

Wanted to start a conversation with everyone.

We are always talking/comparing who has the better coral, who has better equipment, who has the biggest tank ect, but I think some of us tend to forget that we are KEEPING LIVING ANIMALS THAT ARE ENDANGERED that can potentially become EXTINCT . With that being said, what happens if the government steps in and puts a ban on our hobby in the U.S ?, import/export of all corals in the U.S would become illegal on the hobby level and we would be stuck with whatever we already have in our tanks prior to the ban. Look how easily other countries have done it and the effects it had, we are still feeling effects. With this in mind how serious are you taking your reef ? Are we just trying to grow corals for profit? Or are we trying to help the environment?

 

[RV Reefs]

I could get behind a larger protection of fish and reefs globally, maybe legislation preventing the sale of fish gathered in methods which harm the reef further. We are already loosing the reefs in the wild, so I would be behind more protections but I think before that happens, that we need to step up and create more infrastructure to sell captive bred fish.

Personally, I only keep coral for my personal enjoyment, and not to frag and sell.

Also keep in mind, I’m biased, since I also SCUBA dive a lot, so I want to be able to continue diving for a long time.

 

[Dread Pirate Dave]

I'm doing this for the fun and the challenge. I basically enjoy seeing things thrive/grow like a garden. Tying this to profits or environmental stewardship is a bit narrow sighted, IMO. I do prefer aqua cultured alternatives when they are available and I gladly pay a premium price for them.

 

[mtfish]

Keeping coral tanks is a hobby for me. I don't sell anything and I am sure I am not going to replenish the ocean with any of my corals. Reef tanks can put a spotlight on the problems with natural reefs, but is not going to change the balance of the issues with global warming or habitat destruction has on reefs. Nature really does not care what people think. There will be life on this planet long after we try to destroy Earth (with or without our species). I actually do have some corals that came in on live rock that is off limits to regular collection. I do not know of any corals that are kept in tanks that are endangered species. I find that science is misdirected when we know more about Mars than we do about the oceans on Earth. Coral reefs are only a sliver of ecosystems in the oceans, but like pretty animals, they get more attention than stuff that "grows in the mud". We need a holistic view of Earth, then we can actually live "with" nature instead of worrying about how we are going to kill the Earth. So, after all this rambling, I don't believe we are helping the environment by keeping corals in tanks. I do think that if all wild corals are off limits, there is enough corals in existing aquariums to supply the need. I love my pretty corals, but they are for my enjoyment, nothing more.

 

[KrisReef]

Wanted to start a conversation with everyone.

With that being said, what happens if the government steps in and puts a ban on our hobby in the U.S ?, import/export of all corals in the U.S would become illegal on the hobby level and we would be stuck with whatever we already have in our tanks prior to the ban.

Relax on that fear. Cocaine has been illegal for about the last 100 years. It was once freely available and even had it's own beverage, Coca Cola that to your point isn't as interesting now but its still available.

I trust that there are many hobbists who would happily collect, import and sell corals at the prices that a ban would support. Recent losses of Indo coral are regrettable but somehow these corals were routed through another fishery and they are still available, just higher cost due to shipping excesses and good old public corruption.

Hawaii is also a better example, where the fishes are now rare but the fishery is protected and better managed and this is good for most of us, if the government doesn't mess up the management like they have the DMV, HealthCare for all, and gasoline prices, but perhaps I went too far with "Government Protection" but I didn't remember the recent attempt on a Candidates life, that has almost faded from public discussion. Yes, the corals will continue to be harvested from the wild and believe it or not the wild can handle the pressure. It has for "Billions and Millions, of years, even survived a Biblical Flood depending on whom you believe.

Look how easily other countries have done it and the effects it had, we are still feeling effects.

Was it Malaysia or another fishery that rerouted SPS colonies? Somebody help me here? Also, Australia, which is heavily managed also blew up to take advantage of the shifty market.

With this in mind how serious are you taking your reef ? Are we just trying to grow corals for profit? Or are we trying to help the environment?

I collected some corals that had clear signs of withering disease. One frag died, while the other is thriving?

I grow corals because they interest me. The oceans does a much better job and I would like to know how come that is, and what it might take for me to do it better.

As far as the environment goes, it will be alive long after we are all gone, and what we leave behind it will deal with. If we all just evolved then there isn't any reason that it won't happen again without our meddling.

Lots of species are only known from fossil record, so this old fossil is just going to thank God that I am not in charge of saving anything. I recognize my limits and don't expect others to fix things either. Concern and action are terms used by people who want to steal your rights. There's a conversation for you. Please count me out, and I don't brag about my equipment, either.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Wanted to start a conversation with everyone.

We are always talking/comparing who has the better coral, who has better equipment, who has the biggest tank ect, but I think some of us tend to forget that we are KEEPING LIVING ANIMALS THAT ARE ENDANGERED that can potentially become EXTINCT . With that being said, what happens if the government steps in and puts a ban on our hobby in the U.S ?, import/export of all corals in the U.S would become illegal on the hobby level and we would be stuck with whatever we already have in our tanks prior to the ban. Look how easily other countries have done it and the effects it had, we are still feeling effects. With this in mind how serious are you taking your reef ? Are we just trying to grow corals for profit? Or are we trying to help the environment?

We aren’t keeping any endangered animals, that’s illegal. There are activists trying to stop the hobby because they have certain beliefs. There are many aquacultured coral and tank raised fish to choose from if anyone has a concern about the environment. Not everyone sees dollars when they look at their tanks, but reefing is a seasonal and often short lived hobby for most.

 

[Slocke]

Banning coral won’t do much for wild coral. In fact it would decrease the value of coral and thus be less likely to be protected. I wish the hobby and conservation groups could work together to perhaps return coral to natural environments but unfortunately with humans inability to combat pollution and climate change I don’t see too much point in that.

 

[Purpletang92]

Seems so far we aren’t worried, I say endangered due to global warming over fishing , we can’t predict the future. But how many corals have perished in your care? How many fish have perished? With the thoughts thus far is the idea of “I’ll just buy another one “ the norm ?

 

[Dburr1014]

As the president of my club in my state I am encouraging everyone to learn about the animals they keep. We teach husbandry and share ideas.

I also sell stuff at very low cost or just give it away, I'm not in it for the money I'm in it for the hobby.

 

[Purpletang92]

As the president of my club in my state I am encouraging everyone to learn about the animals they keep. We teach husbandry and share ideas.

I also sell stuff at very low cost or just give it away, I'm not in it for the money I'm in it for the hobby.

What are your thoughts on “chop shop corals” ?

 

[Tony Thompson]

We aren’t keeping any endangered animals, that’s illegal.

Stony corals are exported and imported under CITES.

Convention on International Trade in "Endangered" Species

It is only illegal to trade without CITES approval and documentation.

 

[Jimbo327]

Most of the corals in my tank are aquacultured. Many of the named SPS are several generations old and farmed. All of my SPS and zoas start with tiny frags from other hobbyists. The bounce mushrooms are all splits and bought from fellow hobbyist. Green slimmer has been in the hobby for 20+ years. The clams are from biota and clammania, which are aquacultured. Yes, the fishes are still mostly harvested, but more and more species are spawning in captivity. The clownfish is bred in captivity. Yellow tangs are banned, but biota is supplying the industry. The hobby has made leaps in terms of self sustainability. Even the imported corals are sometimes farmed overseas.

 

[Purpletang92]

Stony corals are exported and imported under CITES.

Convention on International Trade in "Endangered" Species

It is only illegal to trade without CITES approval and documentation.

Spot on I forgot about this part

 

[Purpletang92]

Most of the corals in my tank are aquacultured. Many of the named SPS are several generations old and farmed. All of my SPS and zoas start with tiny frags from other hobbyists. The bounce mushrooms are all splits and bought from fellow hobbyist. Green slimmer has been in the hobby for 20+ years. The clams are from biota and clammania, which are aquacultured. Yes, the fishes are still mostly harvested, but more and more species are spawning in captivity. The clownfish is bred in captivity. Yellow tangs are banned, but biota is supplying the industry. The hobby has made leaps in terms of self sustainability. Even the imported corals are sometimes farmed overseas.

Yes things are being aqua cultured but let’s be real are they affordable for most?

 

[Lavey29]

Whales, Elephants, black rhinos, dodo birds, etc... yea we will be fine here as each day we see threads from people wondering why their hippo tang died in their 20g tank

 

[Reefer Matt]

Stony corals are exported and imported under CITES.

Convention on International Trade in "Endangered" Species

It is only illegal to trade without CITES approval and documentation.

Right, that’s because all stony corals are covered under that regardless of conservation status. I’m curious exactly which species in our reef tanks and in the trade are endangered per their official conservation status.

 

[fish farmer]

How much are individual hammer heads going for today? I got about 100....too bad the stalks have vermetid snails, most people don't want those.

It's a hobby/pretty fish tank for me. I rarely buy fish for my 29 gallon, my pair of clowns are 17 years old, maybe cultured, only one other wild fish, sixline wrasse, not planning on any more in the short term. Corals vary, likely mostly aquaculture Pacific East or Cultivated Reef. I have three"local" reefers I could get SPS frags from if I wanted.

 

[twentyleagues]

I have fragged and sold corals from my tanks. I have bred clownfish and sold babies. I didnt go into either of those thinking I am going to make money on this stuff. It was part of the hobby. It was the challenge of the hobby that drove me to do it. I had certain corals that did really well in my system fragging them kept the population or area they took up in control. I didnt want to just throw them out and selling them helped me achieve more from the hobby, helped cover the costs of this hobby. I didnt put the going price for the corals on them like $25/polyp or $100 for a tiny nub that some of them cost online or in stores or at frag swaps with the high-end dealers. No, I would charge a fraction of that may be $25 for a nice small colony and usually whoever came to get a coral from me would leave with some other pieces for free. This allowed me to meet many new faces in the hobby and have good conversations about the hobby usually. I mean isnt that part of it? Meeting people that share your interests and share knowledge and learn. I dont think me telling someone about my equipment is for bragging rights more like this is what I am doing or using and it works or doesnt.

I do like the idea of conservation. Mariculture corals and captive bred fish are really great steps in the right direction for our hobby. I have seen news articles on scientists helping to reseed dying reefs with maricultured corals.

When you say "chop shop corals" that sounds bad and in a way I guess it is, but isnt that how a lot of aqua cultured corals started? Bring in a colony, frag it, and try to get it to grow in captivity. If you just brought in that one piece and left it whole and it didnt like the parameters or whatever and it died its a complete loss but if half the frags survive then its at least something.

 

[Purpletang92]

Right, that’s because all stony corals are covered under that regardless of conservation status. I’m curious exactly which species in our reef tanks and in the trade are endangered per their official conservation status.

I think about this a lot also , think about the corals that are harder to keep, Aussie Gold torches , Wilsoni, Acans , wall hammers…..

 

[Reefer Matt]

Yes things are being aqua cultured but let’s be real are they affordable for most?

I aquaculture a lot of coral, and enjoy them all. I can’t even give away things like birdsnest, pocillopora, pavona, monti cap, or monti digitata. I sell very cheap just to share, but most Reefers in my area value high dollar items. Coral are often seen like baseball cards, and just another collectable.