Pest-free live rock?

[livinlifeinBKK]

So, if I have a mature tank and I take a scoop of sand from that tank, I quarantine that sand for several weeks, seeing that it has no undesirable life, then place that in a tank full of dry rock, along with heat, flow, filtration, and food, just like any typical DT, minus fish and coral would I expect that rock to mature and become live rock that is pest-free? Is there any value in that rock to other hobbyists?

First off, I say go for it! You have a 0% chance of success if you don't try. Even if you try and fail you will learn something. I'm unsure it'll be very successful and 8 months seems like a lot of time to invest in adding nutrients to feed the bacteria, water changes to remove detritus (depending on what you're using as a nutrient source) for a very low profit is all. In regards to your question about adding a scoop of sand from a mature tank, take into consideration that bacteria compete with each other and the same biodiversity present on day 1 won't be the same as on day 240...i think an even better idea would be buying live ocean rock, ridding it of pests and selling it as live ocean rock pest free (or greatly reduced pests).

 

[HawkeyeDJ]

Live rock has sponges, feather dusters, coraline, various filter feeders, pods, corals, critters and creatures all beneficial to a reef tank.

what you’re talking about is just boring rock with a bio filter. You’ll never be able to mature it to the point of a rock that’s been submerged in the ocean. in your terrified chicken little sterile biome and make it worth your time. Won’t happen.

If I understand you, live rock by definition must contain pests. If I put live rock, with all the attending life you describe and filter out the pests, use that rock to seed other rock, the new rock will never be truly live?

 

[GatorGreg]

My definition of mature means that it's been in contact with a wide diversity of organisms which all contribute something (making it "live")...8 month dry rock in bottled bac for 8 months will give you the same several strains of bacteria in the bottle...nothing more. If you're just adding bottled bac to dry rock in a tank to isolate it from everything except bacteria, it certainly won't take 8 months for those few strains of bacteria to colonize the rock

Exactly my point. It’s just rock with a bio filter. It’s cycled rock. You can buy it at any LFS that’s doing the exact same thing as OP. It’s in no way shape or form LIVE in my opinion.

 

[GatorGreg]

If I understand you, live rock by definition must contain pests. If I put live rock, with all the attending life you describe and filter out the pests, use that rock to seed other rock, the new rock will never be truly live?

Lol. Everything you consider a pest can come in on a cuc or a frag. Every single stunning reef tank I’ve ever witnessed in person had some kind of ailment that you’d consider a pest. The completely perfect sterile tank you’re trying to create isn’t reality for most and most people trying so hard to create it are why there’s 100s of Dinoflagellate threads.

All of this is my uneducated opinion of course. Not knocking your entrepreneurial spirit in any way. I just get a kick out of how terrified people are of pests on ocean rock.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

If I understand you, live rock by definition must contain pests. If I put live rock, with all the attending life you describe and filter out the pests, use that rock to seed other rock, the new rock will never be truly live?

The thing is, the vast majority of those bacteria live on the rock surface so wouldn't it make more sense to sell the live ocean rock after you removed most (you'll never remove all) pests?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

The only thing is that i really doubt people would be willing to pay the same price that you paid for it since it's not right out of the ocean anymore...you want some relatively pest free live rock? I'll mail it to you. This stuff is the real deal...I've found a total of 2 small crabs on the 2 pieces i got.

 

[HawkeyeDJ]

Lol. Everything you consider a pest can come in on a cuc or a frag. Every single stunning reef tank I’ve ever witnessed in person had some kind of ailment that you’d consider a pest. The completely perfect sterile tank you’re trying to create isn’t reality for most and most people trying so hard to create it are why there’s 100s of Dinoflagellate threads.

All of this is my uneducated opinion of course. Not knocking your entrepreneurial spirit in any way. I just get a kick out of how terrified people are of pests on ocean rock.

Well, for the noob who finds their tank all of a sudden overwhelmed with GHA or bubble algae and being told it's their fault because they feed too much or they leave their lights on too much or that aiptasia can be eliminated by buying this or that product, it can be frustrating.

Maybe the answer is rather than get frustrated, just embrace the battle and accept that dead corals due to hair algae is all part of the fun.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Well, for the noob who finds their tank all of a sudden overwhelmed with GHA or bubble algae and being told it's their fault because they feed too much or they leave their lights on too much or that aiptasia can be eliminated by buying this or that product, it can be frustrating.

Maybe the answer is rather than get frustrated, just embrace the battle and accept that dead corals due to hair algae is all part of the fun.

Well if you have overwhelming hair algae maybe the answer is to not buy corals yet

 

[HawkeyeDJ]

Now I'm thinking the key is to quarantine EVERYTHING, including live rock for several weeks. Kill the aiptasia and the bubble algae and the GHA before placing it in your DT.

 

[Spare time]

I mean, pests will be introduced inevitably...just buy from a good shop and do your best to inspect the rock and take precautions before just dumping it in the tank

Not all tanks will get pests if items are quarantined properly.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

When people say "seed their tank" it usually refers to the use of ocean live rock

Not really. I seeded my initial reef with rock from 3 different hobbyists tanks and did not need to worry about a cycle.

The "live" in "live rock" is the bacteria, nothing else. "Ocean live rock" is a different story. That's maricultured in the ocean and has visible life on it.

 

[ReefGeezer]

1. Real live rock, that which is cultured in the ocean, will have some pests but they are manageable.
2. If it wasn't cultured in the ocean it is not live rock, BUT it will potentially have the same pests or worse.
3. While I think it it is still possibly beneficial, adding a few lbs. of live rock is not an effective way to "seed" a tank full of dry rock.

But to answer, the original question, no, there is no such thing as completely pest free live rock... or pest free frags, or pest free anything else that comes from waters outside your own tank. The Aiptasia, bubble algae, green hair algae and many other pests show up whether you use only dry rock or try to seed it with true live rock. To be honest, you would have less pests over the life of the tank, if you started with 100% real ocean cultured live rock from a good source.

Too many who blame the pests common to starting a tank with dry rock on a couple chunks of wet rock they got from a LFS, a fellow reefer's tank, or even from an ocean live rock supplier. The problem is not the live rock. It is the dry rock.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Not all tanks will get pests if items are quarantined properly.

You really can QT so thoroughly as to remove every microscopic pest which will grow after Being placed in the DT

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Not really. I seeded my initial reef with rock from 3 different hobbyists tanks and did not need to worry about a cycle.

The "live" in "live rock" is the bacteria, nothing else. "Ocean live rock" is a different story. That's maricultured in the ocean and has visible life on it.

I said usually because there are those who use established rock from mature tanks but that still has the biodiversity due to the many other organisms present aside from only bacteria. At the very least i think it's safe to say that the mature tank didn't contain only bacteria and the other organisms contributed to the biodiversity as well.

 

[HawkeyeDJ]

Well if you have overwhelming hair algae maybe the answer is to not buy corals yet

Well past that issue. A combination of algaecides and turbo snails eventually got the GHA and bubble algae under control. Peppermint shrimp and the occasional lemon juice injection keeps the aiptasia under control.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Well past that issue. A combination of algaecides and turbo snails eventually got the GHA and bubble algae under control. Peppermint shrimp and the occasional lemon juice injection keeps the aiptasia under control.

I still say give it a shot...the worst that can happen is it not working out but you will learn from the experience anyway. Just come up with a solid plan first. What you're trying to do won't be easy by any means but give it a shot if you believe in the idea

 

[HawkeyeDJ]

I still say give it a shot...the worst that can happen is it not working out but you will learn from the experience anyway. Just come up with a solid plan first. What you're trying to do won't be easy by any means but give it a shot if you believe in the idea

Entrepreneurial spirit aside, it is also my experience that if I find something that is not being done by others, there is usually a reason why. I realize there are lots of people who are a whole lot smarter than me in this hobby, many right here on this forum. That's why I throw these ideas out there, to find out "why." For me, that is the single most important question to answer in this hobby.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Entrepreneurial spirit aside, it is also my experience that if I find something that is not being done by others, there is usually a reason why. I realize there are lots of people who are a whole lot smarter than me in this hobby, many right here on this forum. That's why I throw these ideas out there, to find out "why." For me, that is the single most important question to answer in this hobby.

Everyone has a different "why" though a lot of times...space, time, effort, doubts regarding success...i could go on and on...i say you think of the best way to do what you're trying to do and put it into action!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Hey, I've got an idea for you...if you really dont mind dedicating 8 months to preparation of the rock to sell, why don't you buy dry rock, place it in a tank along with a couple pieces of live ocean rock which you've eradicated as many pests as possible on, and also add in additional organisms such as pods, macro algae, grow some coralline on it, etc. to transform it into something not many people can get without a hefty price tag?

 

[TnFishwater98]

My LFS.

What you got from your LFS was probably cycled rock. They had pest in their tanks and they got into the rock while it soaked. Your LFS might of had real LR but we would need pics to verify…. Most LFS will label their cycled rock as LR, so this misunderstanding happens a lot. Cycled Rock is very useful for starting tanks and other. So it would be a value for someone to purchase cycled rock clear of pest. It takes along time for real LR to turn cycled rock into “LR”……