overdosing manganese (Mn) on purpose

[Makara23]

Some trace elements are needed. But in high concentrations, it becomes toxic. Does this apply for manganese?

Manganese is one trace element that gets rapidly depleted within a day or two. Every time I've sent an ICP test, it shows as not detectable. I've made a dosing dilution of Manganese Sulfate Monohydrate (MnSO4.H2O) to add 1ml to my tank to bring it to natural sea water concentrations of Mn.

If I were to overdose by twice or quadruple every day (not knowing how much corals or algae uptake), and eventually overshoot NSW, will this be detrimental to my tank?

 

[saltyfins]

Some trace elements are needed. But in high concentrations, it becomes toxic. Does this apply for manganese?

Manganese is one trace element that gets rapidly depleted within a day or two. Every time I've sent an ICP test, it shows as not detectable. I've made a dosing dilution of Manganese Sulfate Monohydrate (MnSO4.H2O) to add 1ml to my tank to bring it to natural sea water concentrations of Mn.

If I were to overdose by twice or quadruple every day (not knowing how much corals or algae uptake), and eventually overshoot NSW, will this be detrimental to my tank?

Not 100% sure...but I would hold off dosing more, until you run another ICP test.

 

[Makara23]

I would hold off dosing more, until you run another ICP test.

I can't sink $50 ICP testing weekly just to know if I'm overdosing a single trace element. And even then, all ICP vendors have margin of error and accuracy (most aren't even published).

Hence the original question: Can I overdose Mn without worrying?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Manganese product and dosing help

Have a manganese deficiency according to my latest Triton ICP analysis. They’re recommending 3.5ml/daily for 2 days, and then a .5ml/daily maintenance dose. The 100ml bottle of Triton Manganese is about $35. I’m looking for a bit more cost friendly solution, and what the comparable dosing would...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Makara23]

Manganese product and dosing help

Have a manganese deficiency according to my latest Triton ICP analysis. They’re recommending 3.5ml/daily for 2 days, and then a .5ml/daily maintenance dose. The 100ml bottle of Triton Manganese is about $35. I’m looking for a bit more cost friendly solution, and what the comparable dosing would...

www.reef2reef.com

Perfect reference answer, thank you! Reposting it here:

ICP is not a perfect answer.

Manganese depletes very rapidly. Only a few grams of macroalgae or microalgae growth can strip the tank. That said, I don't think we have a good idea how much is needed, or if it is even necessary to be detectable by ICP. In my tank and many others it was not. Does that mean the tank would benefit from dosing? Only experimentation can determine that.

ICP will be hard to get a dose except by multiple tests over time. I'd suggest experimenting and see what benefits the tank (or not). I've not seen any info from folks dosing it at higher than recommended levels.

I'll experiment with this and be one of the first to purposefully overdose Mn and will report back, unless @Randy Holmes-Farley has additional info from 1.5yrs ago that says otherwise.

 

[VintageReefer]

According to moonshiners I’m supposed to be dosing .2-.3ml a day and I’ve decided since I have 20+ Goni + macro…if it’s depleted nearly daily why bump up just to have it bottom out and need to be bumped up again. I switched to .5-.6ml daily and so far no effect positive or negative detected. I’m curious if icp will show this as a detectable level or if I’m still underdosing. Their estimates don’t really factor for the number of “manganese consumers” each tank has

 

[Makara23]

According to moonshiners I’m supposed to be dosing .2-.3ml a day and I’ve decided since I have 20+ Goni + macro…if it’s depleted nearly daily why bump up just to have it bottom out and need to be bumped up again. I switched to .5-.6ml daily and so far no effect positive or negative detected. I’m curious if icp will show this as a detectable level or if I’m still underdosing. Their estimates don’t really factor for the number of “manganese consumers” each tank has

So you've 2x the recommended amount. When was your last ICP, and when do you plan on having the next one? I'm curious about your results as well for an additional data point.

 

[VintageReefer]

I have an icp kit on hand ready to fill and send. I’ve never used one before

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have an icp kit on hand ready to fill and send. I’ve never used one before

I had a triton kit rolling around the desk for a year or two... I think it is doing as much good there as it would be if I sent it in.

 

[VintageReefer]

I had a triton kit rolling around the desk for a year or two... I think it is doing as much good there as it would be if I sent it in.

Yea mines doing no good but I know manganese is difficult to detect and also depleted rapidly, many people test undetectable even with dosing. So I wanted to go a few weeks before sending it in to give it time and see if I have a positive and measurable level.

If I’m dosing .3 a day and am undetectable then that’s a waste of a 50$ icp. If I dose .6 and show a 5 then I know I’m in the ballpark and can reduce. If it shows 0 then I know at least doubling a dose isn’t enough to keep up with my systems demands.

So just giving some time to let a trend establish, and then hopefully measure and capture and see where to go

 

[VintageReefer]

I had a triton kit rolling around the desk for a year or two... I think it is doing as much good there as it would be if I sent it in.

I misread your post. I thought you were saying my test kit is doing no good being unused

I actually agree with you and I have neve mr seen a need for icp and I don’t really see much value in them, this is more of a curiosity for one particular substance, and just to give myself an idea if 10 years of no water changes has had any detrimental effect. Am I on the brink of a crash? Who knows. Everything looks good to me lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think it’s a fine experiment. Most trace elements seem to have a fairly wide window of acceptable concentration.

 

[Makara23]

I have an icp kit on hand ready to fill and send. I’ve never used one before

There's a first for everything, even after 7k+ posts

How do you know the exact moonshiner dosing without a prior triton ICP?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I misread your post. I thought you were saying my test kit is doing no good being unused

I actually agree with you and I have neve mr seen a need for icp and I don’t really see much value in them, this is more of a curiosity for one particular substance, and just to give myself an idea if 10 years of no water changes has had any detrimental effect. Am I on the brink of a crash? Who knows. Everything looks good to me lol.

I am in the same boat... many years with no water changes. That is why I got the test in the first place. I then figured ICP-MS was the better way to go for a single baseline test... but was not going to pay $100 to have it done. So here we are.

 

[scotty333]

Idk what all the fuss is about
If you daily dose , or in my case put 10ml for 12 days in the ato tank (400ltr) I get a reading
Just upped it to 12 because I can haha
I must admit , I might be jumping the gun a little cos it’s the 3rd icp but I changed brands and they’re probably using different machines
Who knows

 

[saltyfins]

I can't sink $50 ICP testing weekly just to know if I'm overdosing a single trace element. And even then, all ICP vendors have margin of error and accuracy (most aren't even published).

Hence the original question: Can I overdose Mn without worrying?

you dont do it weekly. Monthly or every 6 weeks. you should anyway, to be sure whatever you're doing, is meeting all the needs.

 

[VintageReefer]

There's a first for everything, even after 7k+ posts

How do you know the exact moonshiner dosing without a prior triton ICP?

They have a calculator document

I assumed my baseline was zero from this formula I made

A x B x C = 0
Where
A = longevity - knowing it depletes quickly

B = consumers - I run a turf scrubber growing algae and have 20 Goni

C = replenishment - 75g tank with 15g water changed over 10 years = none

It just made sense to me that it’s depleted to zero at the start of me dosing it

 

[Reefahholic]

If I were to overdose by twice or quadruple every day (not knowing how much corals or algae uptake), and eventually overshoot NSW, will this be detrimental to my tank?

When that Turkish TM salt was nuking tanks, I saw a Triton ICP that had Mn at 146
ug/L. Recently saw a batch of Red Sea salt that was at 105 ug/L. I’ve seen it 20-30x the normal level w/o issues.


Iron is another one that is constantly depleted, but significantly elevated at times in salt brands. Both are overdosed with large water changes sometimes, and I believe this is the reason for certain Dino species (Like Ostreopsis) to explode.


I’ve heard that Iron is part of an anti-caking agent that is frequently found in salts (cyanoferrate). Manganese is an impurity commonly found in salts. For a while I thought salt manufacturers were
Boosting these elements on purpose due to their rapid consumption, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[Reefahholic]

According to moonshiners I’m supposed to be dosing .2-.3ml a day and I’ve decided since I have 20+ Goni + macro…if it’s depleted nearly daily why bump up just to have it bottom out and need to be bumped up again. I switched to .5-.6ml daily and so far no effect positive or negative detected. I’m curious if icp will show this as a detectable level or if I’m still underdosing. Their estimates don’t really factor for the number of “manganese consumers” each tank has

A lot of guys with Goni are keeping Mn at 1 ug/L or higher. No issues.