No hate: what corals wont give me anxiety as a new hobbyist?

[exnisstech]

No amount of informing her will do the trick to keep her out of the tank.

My grandson touches things he isn't supposed to and his hand gets smacked. It's amazing how quickly he learns what not to touch. I gave up trying to reason with young children 2 generations ago. I do explain why he is not allowed to touch things and he gets a warning the first time. It's probably that generation thing everyone keeps talking about

 

[Mschmidt]

There are very few herbicides that will kill it and not your grass.

Fewer still that my wife would let me use.

You don’t want any part of most if you enjoy your health. I spent the better part of a decade fighting it in my lawn. Mechanical removal is the only real option and it is futile. Neighbor nuked their lawn with roundup, replanted and the Creeping Charlie laughed.

Friend planted trumpet vine 5 years ago for a backyard trellis. I warned him not to. He said I worry too much. Pretty… except for it pops up EVERYWHERE, even 2 houses away on both sides.

Turns out it's native here. I think I'll just suck it up and be happy it's not mud.

 

[PotatoPig]

you have options like GSP - which you can get cheap, put on a rock, and it'll create a beautiful grassy covering that waves in the flow

Example of GSP on the back wall:

My old phone camera doesn’t do it justice.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Zoanthids are my least anxiety driving corals

For others, I suppose they cause more, "OMG, these are gonna kill my kids with their toxins"

You do you, but that is a rather short sighted take born of either ignorance of the actual danger that palytoxin represents or the same silly bravado that the anti seatbelt crowd projects.

Your choice by all means, but aired publicly, assume that others will openly disagree as a matter of public interest and concern.

They may not cause you “anxiety”, which is understandable, but you shouldn’t shame people or downplay the risk for those that have valid concerns.

 

[merkmerk73]

People do not take palytoxin seriously enough

It’s not just “oh don’t boil a rock or stick a bloody finger in the tank”

Julian Sprung has a story with very little contact and he got nailed

 

[Timfish]

Palytoxin and ciguatera toxins are totally different molecules. Palytoxin is relatively specific to zoanthids and is rarely found elsewhere. Even within zoanthids usually only specific species of Palythoa have significant amounts of it.

Can't say that I'm surprised there are molecular differences depending on the specific species of algae that makes the toxin so if you want to argue there are molecular differences, go for it. I don't see how that matters much at the hobbyest level. But research I've seen doesn't support your assertion palytoxin is rarely found elsewhere.

From the first link in my post

"A near fatal case of ciguatera-related intoxication following consumption of smoked Decapterus macrosoma is documented. . . . The responsible agent was extracted from corresponding fish samples and identified as palytoxin."

And from the second link:

"palytoxin (PTX), which has been detected in zoanthid species of the genus Palythoa, also occurred in various other marine organisms living in close association with zoanthid colonies, e.g. sponges (Porifera), soft corals (Alcyonaria), gorgonians (Gorgonaria), mussels, and crustaceans. Predators, e.g. polychaete worms (Hermodice carunculata), a starfish (Acanthaster planci) and fish (Chaetodon species) feeding on Palythoa colonies, accumulate high toxin concentrations in their organs,"

Here's another link I didn't post initially but am happy to list here include:

" . . . Palytoxin and its numerous derivatives (congeners) may enter the food chain and accumulate mainly in fishes and crabs, causing severe human intoxication and death following ingestion of contaminated products. Furthermore, toxic effects in individuals exposed via inhalation or skin contact to marine aerosol in coincidence with Ostreopsis blooms, have been reported. . . "

 

[FDchase]

My son is 2, I recently put a rabbit fish in the tank. My tang found out in about 30 seconds it has venomous spines on it. I’m not worried about my son getting in it at all. First I have a keyed lock on the sump door. Second, although temporary until he’s quite a bit taller, there’s no way he can get into the tank itself. Unless he goes out to the garage or shed, pulls out a ladder and climbs up. Even if some how my 2 year old managed that, he still wouldn’t be able to reach anything as my closest coral to the top is about 1 foot down from the top and 1 foot back. I doubt the rabbit fish will seek out a hand to attack. Once he’s at a size he can achieve getting into the main tank I think he will be old enough to understand.

 

[BeanAnimal]

My son is 2, I recently put a rabbit fish in the tank. My tang found out in about 30 seconds it has venomous spines on it. I’m not worried about my son getting in it at all. First I have a keyed lock on the sump door. Second, although temporary until he’s quite a bit taller, there’s no way he can get into the tank itself. Unless he goes out to the garage or shed, pulls out a ladder and climbs up. Even if some how my 2 year old managed that, he still wouldn’t be able to reach anything as my closest coral to the top is about 1 foot down from the top and 1 foot back. I doubt the rabbit fish will seek out a hand to attack. Once he’s at a size he can achieve getting into the main tank I think he will be old enough to understand.

FWIW - When I was a young child we were visiting a relative who had an aquarium with several lionfish in a tank behind the sofa. I am told (I was too young to remember anything but the vaguest recollection of the event ) that I climbed onto the back of the sofa, had the lid open and arm in the tank trying to pet the fish... It happened so fast that nobody was close enough to stop me. I did not get stung, but am told it was close.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Can't say that I'm surprised there are molecular differences depending on the specific species of algae that makes the toxin so if you want to argue there are molecular differences, go for it. I don't see how that matters much at the hobbyest level. But research I've seen doesn't support your assertion palytoxin is rarely found elsewhere.

From the first link in my post

"A near fatal case of ciguatera-related intoxication following consumption of smoked Decapterus macrosoma is documented. . . . The responsible agent was extracted from corresponding fish samples and identified as palytoxin."

And from the second link:

"palytoxin (PTX), which has been detected in zoanthid species of the genus Palythoa, also occurred in various other marine organisms living in close association with zoanthid colonies, e.g. sponges (Porifera), soft corals (Alcyonaria), gorgonians (Gorgonaria), mussels, and crustaceans. Predators, e.g. polychaete worms (Hermodice carunculata), a starfish (Acanthaster planci) and fish (Chaetodon species) feeding on Palythoa colonies, accumulate high toxin concentrations in their organs,"

Here's another link I didn't post initially but am happy to list here include:

" . . . Palytoxin and its numerous derivatives (congeners) may enter the food chain and accumulate mainly in fishes and crabs, causing severe human intoxication and death following ingestion of contaminated products. Furthermore, toxic effects in individuals exposed via inhalation or skin contact to marine aerosol in coincidence with Ostreopsis blooms, have been reported. . . "

I think we would be remiss in not also mentioning the toxins found in Dino's (Saxitoxins) and Cyano (Cyanotoxins) as something also to be aware of, that can actually be very deadly even though most hobbyists are ill-informed or underestimate the risks.

 

[modom1207]

I think we would be remiss in not also mentioning the toxins found in Dino's (Saxitoxins) and Cyano (Cyanotoxins) as something also to be aware of, that can actually be very deadly even though most hobbyists are ill-informed or underestimate the risks.

Are they toxic at the level that if you killed them off with a 3 day black out, your water column would quickly become toxic as they died? I’ve wondered this.

Would the natural evaporation from your tank become toxic if these algae had a sudden bloom?

I live near the panhandle, and there was a red tide bloom occurring that wiped out millions of fish around the time of my honeymoon. This was years ago. I didn’t understand what it really was, other than “smelly fish.” We went to the beach to celebrate late one evening, and we had to leave shortly after from how badly our eyes burned, and our throats quickly became really irritated and scratchy as well. Never realized sea algae could cause that reaction.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes - anytime you kill a large population of toxic fauna in your aquarium it has the potential to do damage to the other inhabitants.

Flat worms, dino's etc. So when there are large infestations and UV or antibiotics are used, it is often best practice (or required) to heavily skim, run carbon and or do water changes. If you ever find yourself in such a situation there are plenty of people here and elsewhere to help and give experienced advice.

As for evaporating water from your aquarium - that would not typically be an issue other than mold and other high humidity issues that occur if they are not dealt with.

A large red tide event like that? I would imagine at those levels the toxin could easily be aerosolized in the pounding surf and humidity but somebody more in the know would have to answer.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

As for evaporating water from your aquarium - that would not typically be an issue other than mold and other high humidity issues that occur if they are not dealt with.

A large red tide event like that? I would imagine at those levels the toxin could easily be aerosolized in the pounding surf and humidity

I wouldn't expect evaporation to be an issue (the evaporation should leave pretty much everything but the water vapor behind), but if it gets aerosolized, it could definitely be a problem.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

So you’re going to let him spew his BS about “boomers” and delete my comment calling him out? Cool…. I’ll see myself out. Coward


Mods scrub my account.

mods- get rid of this guy. About 90% of what he says is negative. I come here to escape the negative Eworld.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

It depends on the level of maintenance you plan on doing

If you aren't going to do water changes often and stay on top of parameters with testing, you have options like GSP - which you can get cheap, put on a rock, and it'll create a beautiful grassy covering that waves in the flow

There are also lots of other soft coral options - some ugly and brown (most places don't seem to sell these much anymore), some really nice.

If you are willing to put in a bit of effort to keep your parameters up, you can get LPS - I don't think LPS require dosing much until you get crazy because they don't grow nutty - but you'd need water changes and to test once in a while and keep your nitrates/phosphates under control

I won't do Zoa or Palythoa because of the Palytoxin risk - just a personal choice, but I sleep better at night knowing I don't have those corals.


Lastly, there's lots of really easy SPS corals that just need some basic maintenance - montiporas and birds nests.



I can't speak to Xenia - but GSP is easily managed. Just keep it on a single rock on the sand. It doesn't show up in different parts of the tank.

GSP is one of the best corals in the hobby and gets a lot of undeserved hate - it's beautiful and cheap. If it were rare people would foam at the mouth for it.

Maybe someday when we start genetically modifying it to get yellow and blue and red varieties.

i was at a well known fish store and they were charging $100 for a “gsp rock” the size of a your fist. This is a very respected company too. Their coral prices are very high but they have some real eye candy in that place.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

Zoanthids are my least anxiety driving corals

For others, I suppose they cause more, "OMG, these are gonna kill my kids with their toxins"

yea- i think that is a little overdone tbh. Unless you’re fragging and the kids are sitting there with you without ppe, the risk is so low. Just wash hands.

 

[BeanAnimal]

yea- i think that is a little overdone tbh. Unless you’re fragging and the kids are sitting there with you without ppe, the risk is so low. Just wash hands.

Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. I suggest doing a bit more actual research outside the echo chambers of this forum and hobby anecdote of the "overblown danger" passed on from one misinformed person to the next.

You don't need to be "fragging" to be exposed at dangerous or lethal levels, although doing so does increase risk. Simply touch them, having an open wound with hands in the tank while the are "unhappy" or damaged, getting squirted in the eye, mouth or nasal cavity, damaging them or disturbing them and inhaling the aerosolized toxin, handling a rock or other item that simply rubbed against them, etc.

I have green palys in my tank that I have spent over a year trying to remove. I get rather ill just scraping a few of with PPE and breathing the air in the fish room.

The toxicity of any specific specimen is a gamble. You just don't know until you do unless you do a DNA test.

 

[modom1207]

Yes - anytime you kill a large population of toxic fauna in your aquarium it has the potential to do damage to the other inhabitants.

Flat worms, dino's etc. So when there are large infestations and UV or antibiotics are used, it is often best practice (or required) to heavily skim, run carbon and or do water changes. If you ever find yourself in such a situation there are plenty of people here and elsewhere to help and give experienced advice.

As for evaporating water from your aquarium - that would not typically be an issue other than mold and other high humidity issues that occur if they are not dealt with.

A large red tide event like that? I would imagine at those levels the toxin could easily be aerosolized in the pounding surf and humidity but somebody more in the know would have to answer.

So doing a blackout for a presumed diatom outbreak would not be advisable if I don’t have a microscope to distinguish the diatoms from the Dinos?

My tank had presumed diatoms develop over the first week, and they’ve slowly increased in number, so I thought of doing a blackout to kill the majority of them before I put any other corals in the tank. Right now I only have a Duncan, so not too worried about him being too stressed, but my snail clean up crew is slow moving, and they’ve only kept the diatoms at bay for the most part on the rock structures and the back wall. I feel like I could kill it now if I do a blackout soon. Is it better to let it run its course?

Here’s an article about the event that my husband and I witnessed on our honeymoon. https://fishingbooker.com/blog/flor...umbers of dead fish,hurt by this rusty plague. I’m pretty sure the bloom was pushed into the shore of the panhandle by a tropical storm as this happened to us near hurricane season. We felt like we had a sinus infection the next day, our noses burned, and we had developed productive coughs overnight, so we skipped the beach that next day. Not being too concerned or educated, we went back to the beach the morning after that because we felt fine by then, but we stayed out of the water for the most part. It became windy in the early afternoon, and our eyes, throats, and noses began burning again from being reexposed to the tide. Ended up skipping the beach all together for the next week. Lots of large dead fish had washed ashore. It was insane.

 

[modom1207]

Example of GSP on the back wall:

My old phone camera doesn’t do it justice.

It’s beautiful! how long did it take for it to encompass the wall like that?

 

[FDchase]

FWIW - When I was a young child we were visiting a relative who had an aquarium with several lionfish in a tank behind the sofa. I am told (I was too young to remember anything but the vaguest recollection of the event ) that I climbed onto the back of the sofa, had the lid open and arm in the tank trying to pet the fish... It happened so fast that nobody was close enough to stop me. I did not get stung, but am told it was close.

That why said it’s temporary for now. There’s nothing in the house tall enough or light enough for him to move and reach up. His best option would be a chair but he has a bit more to grow for that to be a viable option for him to reach inside the tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That why said it’s temporary for now. There’s nothing in the house tall enough or light enough for him to move and reach up. His best option would be a chair but he has a bit more to grow for that to be a viable option for him to reach inside the tank.

Sorry - was not indicating that you should not have it. I was just relaying a story in context to the thread.