No hate: what corals wont give me anxiety as a new hobbyist?

[PharmrJohn]

I asked my LFS the other day, and the guy kind of laughed at me, and said that any coral is fine with the proper precautions, then he went on to tell me that his zoa and palys have not yet caused his family to become poisoned by palytoxin, even after handling each without gloves. I’ll take that anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt; as I told him in my response, my anxiety levels are simply too high to risk something that could kill myself or my children if I made a stupid, rooky mistake. As a millennial, I am a person who researches heavily before committing to anything. I google absolutely anything to a point where it becomes borderline obsessive. With little success, this leads me to the question of:

I have two small children, one who is too young to trust that she will not to put her hands in the tank. I also have a dumb cat who is declawed and has the brain of a toddler (and that’s on a good day. Normally, my cat’s last two braincells are not working together enough for him to recall where his food bowl is always kept.) Needless to say, the forces are working against me, and there simply is no amount of lecture that will teach my toddler or my cat to keep their chubby little paws out of the tank, for now at least.

I know that bacteria is a thing, so I have taken proper precautions… my tank lid is on tight, but then again, my toddler is very avid in the search/seek/destroy department. But, the bacteria found in tank water are not my main concern. I have wondered what corals would be “family safe.” I am new to this hobby, so please correct me if I am wrong, but I have researched fairly thoroughly, and I have found that duncans are safe and nonaggressive. Further research tells me that pulsing xenia is fine, as well as candy cane coral. Favites may be okay, but I’ve read that fava (sp?) can produce toxins that cause burns. Anything else similar to these? For instance, any types of nonzoa or nonpaly mushroom coral?

Does anyone have any other suggestions that are tried and true for coral that can burn/sting (as most do) but will not kill you or your family if you accidently touch your face or handle other objects after handling the coral? I am interested. Obviously, I will wear gloves, but I am someone with anxiety, so I would like to know before I commit.

Please no “don’t join the hobby if you are afraid of the risks” or “you’re more likely to be hit by a bus than be poisoned by blank” responses… those types of replies are simply entirely unhelpful and truly condescending. Consider that people can want to love and join a hobby for their mental health’s sake while also having a family that they want to protect at all costs.

Your comment about your cat hit home. Mine has two brain cells left as well. He's 16. He uses one brain cell to poop on the floor downstairs and the other to pee anywhere he wants. We're getting rid of all carpet now. Ugh! I just can't put him down!!!!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Are you going to RAP Anaheim?

Yes sir! I plan to be there in attendance on both days! I won't have a booth, but I promise to rep R2R flashily!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

So you’re going to let him spew his BS about “boomers” and delete my comment calling him out? Cool…. I’ll see myself out. Coward


Mods scrub my account.

If there are comments that need to be addressed by moderation, please report those rather than getting into attacking other members. We do our best to be fair, but we don't see everything. Thanks.

 

[Mschmidt]

Me catching up on this thread:

 

[Steven Garland]

I have a 6yr old and 4yr old and only 1 time did they do anything to the tank when they were infants (I was chewing tabacco at the time and they dumped my whole spit bottle in the tank).

Other than that it was just tapping on the glass. They normally just look at the tank,point at stuff and ask tons of questions and name everything lol.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Baby boomers are a group based on year of birth. It's not a comment on any one individual.

 

[modom1207]

Me catching up on this thread:

I never intended it to come to this lol

 

[modom1207]

Your comment about your cat hit home. Mine has two brain cells left as well. He's 16. He uses one brain cell to poop on the floor downstairs and the other to pee anywhere he wants. We're getting rid of all carpet now. Ugh! I just can't put him down!!!!

I’m sorry to hear about your cat ): I actually have two, but one is a Maine coon that just chills all day. It’s my reformed dumpster kitty that lacks a wrinkled brain lol. I know I’d have a difficult time if I ever had to put either of mine down, too! Hoping your situation improves for you

 

[modom1207]

I have a 6yr old and 4yr old and only 1 time did they do anything to the tank when they were infants (I was chewing tabacco at the time and they dumped my whole spit bottle in the tank).

Other than that it was just tapping on the glass. They normally just look at the tank,point at stuff and ask tons of questions and name everything lol.

Both of mine tried tapping on the glass the first few days, but they’ve learned not to after I explained it hurts the fish lol. It’s my toddler that is just hard headed

 

[modom1207]

When I fisrt saw the title of your thread first thought that popped into my head was "haven't met a coral yet that hasn't given me anxiety sooner or later"

First the bad news. Palytoxin and ciguatera toxin are the same and it's made by a single cell algae and is found in a wide range of corals and fish.

And some good news. The cases I've seen documented with aquarists almost always involve aerosolizing the toxin by boiling, heating the mucus on a heater register and cutting or drilling rock. Keeping questionable animals submerged to avoid splashing or dripping mucus when working with questionable animals and wearing gloves if you have nicks or cuts and safety goggles are easy preventative measures. Of the options listed above I'd say mushroom polyps are have the least amount of risk, which still gives you tons of colors and textures.

The one time I think I got palytoxin was drilling a rock covered with what's locally called "Texas Trash" palies but that's once in 4 decades of handling corals bare handed (and often with scratches from my cats*). For myself I'm more concerned about getting hit by a distracted driver or getting food poisoning., both which have happened with more frequency than that one episode with palytoxin.

(*Based on my experences I'm pretty sure toxoplasmosis will counteract palytoxin. )

Thank you for responding and for helping to ease my fears! After reading everything people have posted on this thread, I’ve decided to go with some mushrooms and a couple Duncan’s and candy canes. I appreciate all the feedback!

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

I asked my LFS the other day, and the guy kind of laughed at me, and said that any coral is fine with the proper precautions, then he went on to tell me that his zoa and palys have not yet caused his family to become poisoned by palytoxin, even after handling each without gloves. I’ll take that anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt; as I told him in my response, my anxiety levels are simply too high to risk something that could kill myself or my children if I made a stupid, rooky mistake. As a millennial, I am a person who researches heavily before committing to anything. I google absolutely anything to a point where it becomes borderline obsessive. With little success, this leads me to the question of:

I have two small children, one who is too young to trust that she will not to put her hands in the tank. I also have a dumb cat who is declawed and has the brain of a toddler (and that’s on a good day. Normally, my cat’s last two braincells are not working together enough for him to recall where his food bowl is always kept.) Needless to say, the forces are working against me, and there simply is no amount of lecture that will teach my toddler or my cat to keep their chubby little paws out of the tank, for now at least.

I know that bacteria is a thing, so I have taken proper precautions… my tank lid is on tight, but then again, my toddler is very avid in the search/seek/destroy department. But, the bacteria found in tank water are not my main concern. I have wondered what corals would be “family safe.” I am new to this hobby, so please correct me if I am wrong, but I have researched fairly thoroughly, and I have found that duncans are safe and nonaggressive. Further research tells me that pulsing xenia is fine, as well as candy cane coral. Favites may be okay, but I’ve read that fava (sp?) can produce toxins that cause burns. Anything else similar to these? For instance, any types of nonzoa or nonpaly mushroom coral?

Does anyone have any other suggestions that are tried and true for coral that can burn/sting (as most do) but will not kill you or your family if you accidently touch your face or handle other objects after handling the coral? I am interested. Obviously, I will wear gloves, but I am someone with anxiety, so I would like to know before I commit.

Please no “don’t join the hobby if you are afraid of the risks” or “you’re more likely to be hit by a bus than be poisoned by blank” responses… those types of replies are simply entirely unhelpful and truly condescending. Consider that people can want to love and join a hobby for their mental health’s sake while also having a family that they want to protect at all costs.

With total respect & no offense meant but you are vastly overthinking this.
Zoa & palythoa can indeed be very dangerous but avoid those & you will be fine
I have a tank full of green toxic plays with no lid & not once have I unalived myself or my wife.

It's just common sense e.g hand washing, no open wounds in water etc etc.
You will be absolutely fine.

For balance, I allow toxic corals into my house but children are absolutely not welcome
Our cat-baby has never ventured near tanks fortunately

 

[twentyleagues]

I had a buddy bring his kid over not that long ago and hes kind of a monster. Hands in every tank. I warned him to make sure to wash his hands before they go in his eyes or mouth. I got tired of warning him and when his hands went in the Fahaka tank I kind of just laughed. Then I fed the Fahaka a hand full of giant ramshorn snails and said I told you to keep the hands out of the tank! Fingers are much softer than the snails. I dont have kids. I do have 2 cats though but they really dont care about the fish tanks they just want to be in the fish room because I usually dont let them. They get bored and want back out in 5 minutes.

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

I had a buddy bring his kid over not that long ago and hes kind of a monster. Hands in every tank. I warned him to make sure to wash his hands before they go in his eyes or mouth. I got tired of warning him and when his hands went in the Fahaka tank I kind of just laughed. Then I fed the Fahaka a hand full of giant ramshorn snails and said I told you to keep the hands out of the tank! Fingers are much softer than the snails. I dont have kids. I do have 2 cats though but they really dont care about the fish tanks they just want to be in the fish room because I usually dont let them. They get bored and want back out in 5 minutes.

"Kind of a monster"
I think that's a perfect summary of how us non paternal guys all view our buddies kids

 

[Northern Flicker]

I had a buddy bring his kid over not that long ago and hes kind of a monster. Hands in every tank. I warned him to make sure to wash his hands before they go in his eyes or mouth. I got tired of warning him and when his hands went in the Fahaka tank I kind of just laughed. Then I fed the Fahaka a hand full of giant ramshorn snails and said I told you to keep the hands out of the tank! Fingers are much softer than the snails. I dont have kids. I do have 2 cats though but they really dont care about the fish tanks they just want to be in the fish room because I usually dont let them. They get bored and want back out in 5 minutes.

My fish area when my nieces and nephews come over:

 

[Mschmidt]

I never intended it to come to this lol

Maybe not, but it's what happens when age is mentioned, especially naming a trait as a generational quality.

Btw, as a millennial I do not share your need to over research nor anxiety about every danger about.

 

[modom1207]

Asking and wanting to be prepared are by no means overthinking. Ignorance is not asking and just making assumptions or throwing caution to the wind.

@modom1207 - I would steer 100% clear of any zoanthids or palythoa. Some can be toxic and it is not worth the risk, especially while learning to take care of everything else. People here will argue some are not, err on the side of caution.

All corals are by their very classification "Stinging cell animals". Skin contact with some corals and anemones can cause rash or discomfort.

Kids and pets put things in mouths and therefore safe practices with tools and utensils and waste associated with the aquarium should be observed.

Some of the things we dose are household chemicals or of the same nature and can cause burns, skin irritation and/or could be poison if consumed. So proper precautions should be taken.

Yes the water (fresh or salt aquarium) can have pathogenic bacteria in it. For most healthy people this is usually not a large risk. But as mentioned above kids and cats can do dumb things, and you shouldn't have your hands in the tank with open sores or cuts. Wear gloves if you have any concerns.

Hand washing - simply wash your hands very well with soap and water any time you are done working in or on the aquarium. Common sense, don't dunk your hands in the tank and then handle the kids, food, or anything else until your hands are washed.

Communication and general expectations and rules as the kid(s) mature are also important.

So maybe child proof cabinet doors for the sump and where supplies are kept. Nothing to climb on near the tank and general awareness of your work space and cleanup should be all that you need. Don't forget electrical safety, no cords to tug or pull on or unprotected receptacles, etc.

So (as with anything in life) common sense, and by all means ask questions if you have concerns. Better safe than sorry. It is a fun and rewarding hobby. Enjoy!

Oh and lastly - don't blindly trust the LFS. While most mean well, in most cases you are taking advice from somebody typically not more versed than you even if they sound like they are.

Maybe not, but it's what happens when age is mentioned, especially naming a trait as a generational quality.

Btw, as a millennial I do not share your need to over research nor anxiety about every danger about.

I apologize because I didn’t mean to stereotype our age group in the light where we’re obsessive learners. I meant it more like, I am a millennial, things are expensive, I want to be informed of what I am buying so I research rather excessively. I mean we grew up in the technological boom where the answers have always been somewhat at our fingertips, so I do feel the need to take to google and forums like this to ask questions when I can’t find the answers elsewhere on the web. I didn’t mean for it to turn into a thread about boomers vs millennials or one generation vs the other

 

[modom1207]

I apologize because I didn’t mean to stereotype our age group in the light where we’re obsessive learners. I meant it more like, I am a millennial, things are expensive, I want to be informed of what I am buying so I research rather excessively. I mean we grew up in the technological boom where the answers have always been somewhat at our fingertips, so I do feel the need to take to google and forums like this to ask questions when I can’t find the answers elsewhere on the web. I didn’t mean for it to turn into a thread about boomers vs millennials or one generation vs the other

I get it, though, not everyone is like me. I simply was trying to convey my level of anxiety when it comes to purchasing things that my toddler could get her hands on that may be potentially toxic/poisonous

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Does anyone have any other suggestions that are tried and true for coral that can burn/sting (as most do) but will not kill you or your family if you accidently touch your face or handle other objects after handling the coral? I am interested. Obviously, I will wear gloves, but I am someone with anxiety, so I would like to know before I commit.

Most corals should be fine (unless you're allergic), but it's still a good idea to wash your hands before touching you face, food, etc. after touching anything in your tank. The only corals I've heard about so far being potentially actively dangerous are zoas, palys, and goniopora (gonis); that said, I've never heard of anyone having issues with gonis and toxins before, so the main ones really are zoas and palys. (Anemones and venomous fish are another matter, and should be researched before purchasing to ensure you know the risks involved there.)

Thankfully, as was mentioned, most incidents with zoas/palys come as a result of aerosolizing the toxin by doing things like boiling rocks with them, scrubbing them off rocks with a toothbrush in a room with poor airflow, etc. - these are very bad ideas.

Ingestion, absorption through cuts, getting sprayed in the eyes, etc. can all happen with bad results as well, but with a little a common sense and personal protective equipment, these shouldn't typically pose a threat to adults.

These (and other dangers in a tank) could, however, pose a threat to rambunctious little children with no sense of danger or self-preservation, so I personally wholeheartedly support the idea of child-proofing the tank, the sump, the equipment, etc. as much as possible.


As a general rule, though, if it lives in the ocean and doesn't move/doesn't move fast, it's probably safe to assume it's toxic to some degree - so, yeah, I'd keep the kid's hand out as much as possible until they're old enough and responsible enough to take proper precautions with the tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I meant it more like, I am a millennial, things are expensive, I want to be informed of what I am buying so I research rather excessively.

The problem becomes sorting out the good advice from the nonsense, well meaning or not. Ask a question here and you will get 72 authoritative answers, with only a handful of them being good advice...Worse, those people argue with each other about what to tell you, the asker. It is not "here" it is just they way people and open (non moderated) conversations work.

I get it, though, not everyone is like me. I simply was trying to convey my level of anxiety when it comes to purchasing things that my toddler could get her hands on that may be potentially toxic/poisonous

I laid out some fairly basic guidelines above that should help ease some of that anxiety.

The same with coral selection. Stick with things that are non-invasive or prolific until you get some experience and can decide which direction you want to go. There is nothing worse than being stuck with invasive coral that you don't want. Kind of like planting mint or trumpet vine in the garden and a few years later realizing it is taking over the entire yard. Great if that was your goal...

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thankfully, as was mentioned, most incidents with zoas/palys come as a result of aerosolizing the toxin by doing things like boiling rocks with them, scrubbing them off rocks with a toothbrush in a room with poor airflow, etc. - these are very bad ideas.

Ingestion, absorption through cuts, getting sprayed in the eyes, etc. can all happen with bad results as well, but with a little a common sense and personal protective equipment, these shouldn't typically pose a threat to adults.

There are far more reported incidents than most would have you believe, leaving how many unreported or misdiagnosed? I sound like a broken record, but the bulk of this hobby grossly and dangerously underestimates the danger. It is quite literally one of the deadliest neurotoxins on the planet and you have no way of knowing if your particular corals have it or don't.

If I were the OP - I wouldn't have anything from the paly or zoa family in my tank. Simple as that.