No hate: what corals wont give me anxiety as a new hobbyist?

[Timfish]

When I fisrt saw the title of your thread first thought that popped into my head was "haven't met a coral yet that hasn't given me anxiety sooner or later"

First the bad news. Palytoxin and ciguatera toxin are the same and it's made by a single cell algae and is found in a wide range of corals and fish.

And some good news. The cases I've seen documented with aquarists almost always involve aerosolizing the toxin by boiling, heating the mucus on a heater register and cutting or drilling rock. Keeping questionable animals submerged to avoid splashing or dripping mucus when working with questionable animals and wearing gloves if you have nicks or cuts and safety goggles are easy preventative measures. Of the options listed above I'd say mushroom polyps are have the least amount of risk, which still gives you tons of colors and textures.

The one time I think I got palytoxin was drilling a rock covered with what's locally called "Texas Trash" palies but that's once in 4 decades of handling corals bare handed (and often with scratches from my cats*). For myself I'm more concerned about getting hit by a distracted driver or getting food poisoning., both which have happened with more frequency than that one episode with palytoxin.

(*Based on my experences I'm pretty sure toxoplasmosis will counteract palytoxin. )

 

[twentyleagues]

I hate to be a harbinger of doom and gloom, but other corals also have "palytoxin". There are also plenty of nasty bacteria in the tank Vibro possibly being one of them. With that said it is rare to actually contract something from your tank. Are there news articles about something somewhere happening? Yes but, the actual percentage of issues to percentage of tanks without is very small. The safest bet is to have no pets or hobbies in which you can maim yourself. Thats boring though! Teach yourself and children look but no touch for the most part. Be safe in your exposure to your tank and all corals.

 

[KrisReef]

 

[EliMelly]

Just get a good lid!

 

[BeanAnimal]

You're over thinking it.

Unless your kids are going to pluck corals out of the tank and start eating them they'll be fine.

Asking and wanting to be prepared are by no means overthinking. Ignorance is not asking and just making assumptions or throwing caution to the wind.

@modom1207 - I would steer 100% clear of any zoanthids or palythoa. Some can be toxic and it is not worth the risk, especially while learning to take care of everything else. People here will argue some are not, err on the side of caution.

All corals are by their very classification "Stinging cell animals". Skin contact with some corals and anemones can cause rash or discomfort.

Kids and pets put things in mouths and therefore safe practices with tools and utensils and waste associated with the aquarium should be observed.

Some of the things we dose are household chemicals or of the same nature and can cause burns, skin irritation and/or could be poison if consumed. So proper precautions should be taken.

Yes the water (fresh or salt aquarium) can have pathogenic bacteria in it. For most healthy people this is usually not a large risk. But as mentioned above kids and cats can do dumb things, and you shouldn't have your hands in the tank with open sores or cuts. Wear gloves if you have any concerns.

Hand washing - simply wash your hands very well with soap and water any time you are done working in or on the aquarium. Common sense, don't dunk your hands in the tank and then handle the kids, food, or anything else until your hands are washed.

Communication and general expectations and rules as the kid(s) mature are also important.

So maybe child proof cabinet doors for the sump and where supplies are kept. Nothing to climb on near the tank and general awareness of your work space and cleanup should be all that you need. Don't forget electrical safety, no cords to tug or pull on or unprotected receptacles, etc.

So (as with anything in life) common sense, and by all means ask questions if you have concerns. Better safe than sorry. It is a fun and rewarding hobby. Enjoy!

Oh and lastly - don't blindly trust the LFS. While most mean well, in most cases you are taking advice from somebody typically not more versed than you even if they sound like they are.

 

[BeanAnimal]

As for coral:

Many soft corals are easy, but many can become very invasive very quickly. Do your research before deciding on things like mushrooms, star polyps, xenia, leather corals, etc.

LPS and SPS typically are a bit harder to keep but (with exceptions) are less invasive long term.

If you really plan on LPS/SPS I would skip most soft corals due to the invasive nature and their tendency to wage chemical warfare against other corals.

 

[Mschmidt]

Me:

reef disease and infants

The world is a dirty place; I know this. But what do I introduce to my house through my reef? I am cautious with washing after my hands go in the tank, and I surely don't go fragging especially my zoas around my newborn (there isn't anything to frag anyway). But is there anything I should be on...

www.reef2reef.com

Also me (taking the pictures):
(Aquarium trip)

(At home)

(At the lfs)

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

I have two young kids as well. My daughter is 4 and she’s on the spectrum. She likes to dip her hands in the tank to lick saltwater off her fingers. She’s fine. Healthy as a horse. I’m a molecular biologist and I am not worried and I keep all the corals that people worry about.

Corals that are easy to keep and don’t release toxins: acans, blastomussa, Duncans, Yuma mushrooms, clove polyps, green star polyps, cespitularia, and many others.

Cool credentials! I have a 5 year old and I handle (not yet frag) palys and zoas and just wash my hands afterwards. I feel like the "risk" is a little blown out of proportion. That said, using proper PPE when fragging is a smart idea.
Palytoxin doesn't scare me. Things like bleach and ammonia and Muriatic Acid etc worry me more.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Start with some mushrooms, Yuma’s come in many brilliant colors and thrive in low or high light.

I heard a NOAA seminar last week and the presentation mentioned that many young people and young students have been exposed to so much climate doom and gloom that they are reporting higher levels of anxiety in younger cohorts. I feel bad for the education that has been put upon young folks. It’s not fair nor honest to put all these stresses upon people and it can’t improve their lives or decisions, imo.

I am a trained scientist and I personally observed the scientific literature being purged from the shelves of a university library and the only thing that returned was literature that promoted Global Warming, Climate Change and historic knowledge was gone from the book racks. Same Change has been happening online, with knowledge hidden behind a paywall or redacted?

I never thought that it would happen here but it has/is.

The anxiety is for good reason. The world is changing faster than ever, and I am not sure we have the tools to exist in a healthy way. This hobby is generally for wealthier folks so many on here won't understand what it's like out there for those spending 70% of their income on housing with no real relief on the way. Climate anxiety is needed, or else we will just sit back and pass it on to later gens as baby boomers have done to us.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I feel like the "risk" is a little blown out of proportion....
Palytoxin doesn't scare me. Things like bleach and ammonia and Muriatic Acid etc worry me more.

I would suggest that you have been poorly informed and have underestimated the dangers of each. Just because the bulk of the hobby says "meh, no big deal" does not mean that they are right or well informed. It just means that the bulk of them repeat what some other poorly informed person assured them was true.

 

[KrisReef]

The anxiety is for good reason. The world is changing faster than ever, and I am not sure we have the tools to exist in a healthy way. This hobby is generally for wealthier folks so many on here won't understand what it's like out there for those spending 70% of their income on housing with no real relief on the way. Climate anxiety is needed, or else we will just sit back and pass it on to later gens as baby boomers have done to us.

I would like you to consider that you seem to have been led to have disdain for "Baby Boomers," because they have presumably schemed against you? This kind of angst is unhealthy looking at your neighbors and being angry about what they have done to you.

I didn't know the world was changing faster, or that anyone had a good healthy reading on the vectors of change that might be measured? I myself am worried by folks who make claims like these and pretend to have solutions to fix them all.

Don't let the devil manipulate you.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The anxiety is for good reason. The world is changing faster than ever, and I am not sure we have the tools to exist in a healthy way. This hobby is generally for wealthier folks so many on here won't understand what it's like out there for those spending 70% of their income on housing with no real relief on the way. Climate anxiety is needed, or else we will just sit back and pass it on to later gens as baby boomers have done to us.

What in the world does this have to do with the OPs concerns or reef keeping in general.

To that end do you even know what a "boomer" is other than using it as a cliched modern pejorative? Those "boomers" and their "greatest generation" parents and their "gen x" kids have provided you with most of the opportunity that you take advantage of now. Good and bad comes from all generations and all types of people.

Sure some people are struggling and some are not, some have never struggled and some that are weren't before and some that are thriving came from a long struggle.

Maybe take global doom and gloom and anti "boomer" conversation to reddit?

Also - if you have that much anxiety about climate, why on earth are you expending resources on an aquarium?

 

[crazyfishmom]

Cool credentials! I have a 5 year old and I handle (not yet frag) palys and zoas and just wash my hands afterwards. I feel like the "risk" is a little blown out of proportion. That said, using proper PPE when fragging is a smart idea.
Palytoxin doesn't scare me. Things like bleach and ammonia and Muriatic Acid etc worry me more.

Definitely protect yourself when you frag!

 

[Northern Flicker]

You're over thinking it.

Unless your kids are going to pluck corals out of the tank and start eating them they'll be fine.

Also dont boil or use vinegar on your rocks lol a local guy did that and sent his whole family to the ER.

 

[formallydehyde]

When I fisrt saw the title of your thread first thought that popped into my head was "haven't met a coral yet that hasn't given me anxiety sooner or later"

First the bad news. Palytoxin and ciguatera toxin are the same and it's made by a single cell algae and is found in a wide range of corals and fish.

And some good news. The cases I've seen documented with aquarists almost always involve aerosolizing the toxin by boiling, heating the mucus on a heater register and cutting or drilling rock. Keeping questionable animals submerged to avoid splashing or dripping mucus when working with questionable animals and wearing gloves if you have nicks or cuts and safety goggles are easy preventative measures. Of the options listed above I'd say mushroom polyps are have the least amount of risk, which still gives you tons of colors and textures.

The one time I think I got palytoxin was drilling a rock covered with what's locally called "Texas Trash" palies but that's once in 4 decades of handling corals bare handed (and often with scratches from my cats*). For myself I'm more concerned about getting hit by a distracted driver or getting food poisoning., both which have happened with more frequency than that one episode with palytoxin.

(*Based on my experences I'm pretty sure toxoplasmosis will counteract palytoxin. )

Palytoxin and ciguatera toxins are totally different molecules. Palytoxin is relatively specific to zoanthids and is rarely found elsewhere. Even within zoanthids usually only specific species of Palythoa have significant amounts of it.

 

[Northern Flicker]

What in the world does this have to do with the OPs concerns or reef keeping in general.

To that end do you even know what a "boomer" is other than using it as a cliched modern pejorative? Those "boomers" and their "greatest generation" parents and their "gen x" kids have provided you with most of the opportunity that you take advantage of now. Good and bad comes from all generations and all types of people.

Sure some people are struggling and some are not, some have never struggled and some that are weren't before and some that are thriving came from a long struggle.

Maybe take global doom and gloom and anti "boomer" conversation to reddit?

Also - if you have that much anxiety about climate, why on earth are you expending resources on an aquarium?

Omg this isn’t the overflow Bean Animal is it?

Never meet your heroes

To answer the “what does this have to do with anything OP said” it’s in to Kris’ enlightened rant post about universities only catering to climate change which I can’t answer for how that’s related to palytoxin.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Now now… let’s not demonize public education. My education doesn’t stop me from letting my child lick the salt off the tank.

I think we’ve all likely been stung by a hammer or two at this point and we all know that it’s no big deal. OP doesn’t know… it’s ok that they don’t know. Also ok to be scared. Also not to be. We are all comfortable with different levels of risk. I won’t eat my coral. My daughter plays splash at the top of the tank… she also doesn’t try to eat the coral. Kids are smarter than they act most of the time.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Let's keep personal attacks out of this thread.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Omg this isn’t the overflow Bean Animal is it?

Never meet your heroes

I just speak my mind and try to do it with consistency and logic. I am not much for trying to win popularity contests or gather “followers”.

Glad the overflow or any of my other projects were helpful to you, that is/was the goal. You don’t have to personally like me.

 

[KrisReef]

Let's keep personal attacks out of this thread.

No way Daniel, this thread Is ON!

Are you going to RAP Anaheim? maybe we could meet up if I rob some liquor stores to get the entry fee?

Nothings personal, and hopefully we can live by the ideas of Rodney King better than he managed too?

Sorry, I enflamed without making any progress. My bad.