Way too much money invested in expensive name brand stuff not to invest even more money in more name brand stuff to make sure that the other name brand stuff works correctly so that the new, even more expensive name brand stuff can replace it.
Name Brand vs No Name Brand: Does it make a difference?
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- Thread starter revhtree
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Braves Fan
Valuable Member
I like to buy things once ,, I would never, ever ,, buy a piece of equipment for my system to save a few $$$ ,, when I did back in the day ,, the non brand usely ended up in the trash ,, I had to re spend money on the good brand that I should have bought in the first place ,, I bought a Skimz Chatto reactor that was a piece of junk ,, that ended up in the trash ,, I bought the Pax Bellum that I should have bought the first go around ,,, its still up in the air wither or not that will end up in the trash ,,
I am a believer for a lot of things that you get what you pay for, however aquarium hobby isnt one of those things. Furthermore, I enjoy searchning for cheaper alternatives to name brand items. Equipment wise, there are brands out there that cost less but are just as good, if not better, than companies that everyone heard of. Also people need to keep in mind that there are brands in other parts of the world that are great, but folks in NA didnt hear of them mainly because they are not as easy to get a hold of in this part of the world. There is a stigma in reefing that you need to buy brand name of everything or else your house will burn down, your fish will all die, your corals will kill you and so on (as can be seen in many replies in this thread lol) To make things worse, people will parrot these ideas to others, because some random person on random message board said this will happen, without actually having any experience with said equipment. I also am a fim believer that if it is made in one of Asian countries, it is all same. You have same factory using same parts and producing same equipment for multiple companies. Just put a different sticker and charge 10X more for one unit over the other. There isnt better QA, they are all looking how to cut corners and keep costs down.
Whether it’s Black box lighting or Jebao dosing pumps, these important items to our reefs are more than likely not going to catch on fire like the toaster or irons we’ve been purchasing for literally decades from China. Let’s think about Jebao pumps for a second. Pumps have been around for over 100 years. No one can improve on them. I’d be the first one who would say “you get what you pay for” but these type of items are worth you saving a few bucks.
Buy cheap, buy twice. Learned that a long time ago. For example, I have Tunze ATO. I splashed water on it and it stopped working. I contacted their customer support. They were great. They had the repaired unit back to me inside a week. Yes I probably paid more for the Tunze but it paid me back with good customer service. If I had purchased a cheaper ATO, I would had to buy twice.
Even name brand equipment is not always what you think it is.
I will only comment on facts I know. This fact, though dated, is still relevant to this day.
I was looking for a 60 inch rear projection TV. Doing my homework I was looking at reviews and features. Well Mitsubishi at this time was, the current leader in the field of Rear projection. I found two Mitsubishi's that were alike but one was priced several hundred dollars less. The part numbers were one digit off, but same for same as far as features, size, resolution, and year of manufacturing went.
So I was like well what's the deal and was told some lame thing about overstocked items or something.
So I was like ok and found that the cheaper one's model number was not listed on the manufacturers website, so I called Mitsubishi.
Come to find out that the models were exactly identical in every way with one exception a very large exception. As far as the EYE could see and read in the description, but what was not listed? the cheaper version did not have 10 inch CRT's. They had smaller 7 inch CRT's that were used in the 50 and 55 inch TV's.
The big box store had ordered thousands of these for the big Black Friday sale.
The Manufacture in this case did make them, and sell them under a no warrantee or return to or buy the manufacturer.
So even when you think your buying name brand products well maybe no so awesome in the end.
Fact number two.
Reviews, yes we all love to go through reviews.
Well reviews can be purchased did you all know that?
Yes they can! In fact, there is an outfit located in Taiwan that will be more than happy to promote your product via false reviews. All that's is needed is a written guideline and basic description of the product and the fee of course, and there wonderful staff will create reviews on your product that they have probably never even touched or have seen.
There smart as well, they are to create 85% 5 star reviews, 10% 4 star, and 5% three star. My ex-son in law showed me first hand how this is done. He was quite proud of himself. He created and purchased 600 reviews for his online products at a cost of $1,200.00. Yep only $2.00US, he said he was kind of angry because they kept raising the rates, and that used to pay 50 cents.
Over the next few weeks I saw his reviews grew by six hundred go figure, and his sales went through the roof.
Two years later I saw online retailers starting to display VERIFIED purchase reviews.
I know why now.
So that's some FYI that most don't know.
I will only comment on facts I know. This fact, though dated, is still relevant to this day.
I was looking for a 60 inch rear projection TV. Doing my homework I was looking at reviews and features. Well Mitsubishi at this time was, the current leader in the field of Rear projection. I found two Mitsubishi's that were alike but one was priced several hundred dollars less. The part numbers were one digit off, but same for same as far as features, size, resolution, and year of manufacturing went.
So I was like well what's the deal and was told some lame thing about overstocked items or something.
So I was like ok and found that the cheaper one's model number was not listed on the manufacturers website, so I called Mitsubishi.
Come to find out that the models were exactly identical in every way with one exception a very large exception. As far as the EYE could see and read in the description, but what was not listed? the cheaper version did not have 10 inch CRT's. They had smaller 7 inch CRT's that were used in the 50 and 55 inch TV's.
The big box store had ordered thousands of these for the big Black Friday sale.
The Manufacture in this case did make them, and sell them under a no warrantee or return to or buy the manufacturer.
So even when you think your buying name brand products well maybe no so awesome in the end.
Fact number two.
Reviews, yes we all love to go through reviews.
Well reviews can be purchased did you all know that?
Yes they can! In fact, there is an outfit located in Taiwan that will be more than happy to promote your product via false reviews. All that's is needed is a written guideline and basic description of the product and the fee of course, and there wonderful staff will create reviews on your product that they have probably never even touched or have seen.
There smart as well, they are to create 85% 5 star reviews, 10% 4 star, and 5% three star. My ex-son in law showed me first hand how this is done. He was quite proud of himself. He created and purchased 600 reviews for his online products at a cost of $1,200.00. Yep only $2.00US, he said he was kind of angry because they kept raising the rates, and that used to pay 50 cents.
Over the next few weeks I saw his reviews grew by six hundred go figure, and his sales went through the roof.
Two years later I saw online retailers starting to display VERIFIED purchase reviews.
I know why now.
So that's some FYI that most don't know.
A well known brand name means nothing if the products they make are crap.
In every industry you have lots of well known brands that are junk while others are good. Some companies spend a lot of money on marketing and others spend it on product design and some companies balance the spending properly. It's up to the consumer to research and find what is good vs what is hype.
In every industry you have lots of well known brands that are junk while others are good. Some companies spend a lot of money on marketing and others spend it on product design and some companies balance the spending properly. It's up to the consumer to research and find what is good vs what is hype.
Costco is famous for doing this. You will see a TV and it looks like the same one at Brandsmart but it is 30% cheaper. If you look at the model number it does not match what is on the manufactures website. Further investigation reveals that it a version of the TV with hardware and software features missing. I stopped buying electronics from Costco about ten years ago, so I have no idea if they are still doing it.
My situation occurred with Best Buy. LoL.
Now where ever I buy something expensive in electronics I get the model number and check it against the manufacturers equipment.
I have found Costco has had the better instances of having the real item on the shelf.
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
As others have mentioned, name brands have a name and a reputation to protect. A knockoff can copy a design but will often cut corners on details such as properly heat sinking a power supply. A generic LED light may be just fine, or they may have cut corners on the LEDs and used ones that have a higher failure rate or lower output. They are also more likely to switch suppliers from week to week depending on what they can get cheaper. Not all brand names are good and not all generics are bad, but in general, a branded device gives a higher likelihood of consistency. For a non-critical application like mixing salt water a generic pump is fine, but I've got a lot of money in my tank, so risking it to save a couple bucks just doesn't make sense.
Below is a link to a comparison of several USB chargers. The knockoffs looked virtually identical but were clearly inferior. I read another article (which I can't find now, of course) that looked more closely at the circuitry. In short, the Apple and Samsung USB chargers were well designed with robust circuitry and protections. The cheap generics were not.
www.righto.com
Below is a link to a comparison of several USB chargers. The knockoffs looked virtually identical but were clearly inferior. I read another article (which I can't find now, of course) that looked more closely at the circuitry. In short, the Apple and Samsung USB chargers were well designed with robust circuitry and protections. The cheap generics were not.
A dozen USB chargers in the lab: Apple is very good, but not quite the best
When you buy a USB charger, how do you know if you're getting a safe, high-quality charger for your money? You can't tell from the outside...
Malevolent
Community Member
To me, this is a no brain’er. I have spent a lot of time and money on this hobby for one purpose, to create and enjoy a replica of a natural echo system. I want it to survive and grow for as long as It’s in my power. Having equipment, test kits, healthy stock, additives and food to help you succeed starts with quality products you can depend on and a LOT of studying on your part. I think we all know the pros and cons on both name brands and non name brands. I normally investigate and learn what each product can do for me, and I think long term. So far in my experiences, the named brand products have given me the most piece of mind.
That includes canned green beans....=p
That includes canned green beans....=p
JoshH
Tank Status: Wet...ish, growing things....
For reefing equipment I tend to prefer actually talking to people who have owned or do still own them. R2R is a fantastic resource for that. Not hard to find a whole bunch of reviews here from actual users. I find "Name Brand" can be a little misleading, a lot of the time you pay name brand pricing and get the same year long warranty as the knock offs. Granted the support is better, but after that year it's all the same.
Other things in life, it actually greatly depends on where I'm buying. I've come to the realization that food, tools and household things. The Quality of "Name brand" items can vary greatly from retailer to retailer. Prime examples include plumbing fixtures. Buy a Moen, Kohler, American Standard etc fixture from Home depot and take it apart, it will have cheap plastic internals. Then go by the exact same fixture from a plumbing outlet, same thing will be $100 orso more at the outlet but the parts inside of it are metal and ceramic, 10 times better and will last YEARS longer than the depot fixture. This is because The Home depot forces manufacturers to a set price for there products so, not to lose on profits, the manufacturers replace quality internals for cheap ones. Walmart and Costco are all the same in this regard even with food.
Other things in life, it actually greatly depends on where I'm buying. I've come to the realization that food, tools and household things. The Quality of "Name brand" items can vary greatly from retailer to retailer. Prime examples include plumbing fixtures. Buy a Moen, Kohler, American Standard etc fixture from Home depot and take it apart, it will have cheap plastic internals. Then go by the exact same fixture from a plumbing outlet, same thing will be $100 orso more at the outlet but the parts inside of it are metal and ceramic, 10 times better and will last YEARS longer than the depot fixture. This is because The Home depot forces manufacturers to a set price for there products so, not to lose on profits, the manufacturers replace quality internals for cheap ones. Walmart and Costco are all the same in this regard even with food.
If it’s German it’s good. Return, powerhead, thermometer, ATO, salt, and several test kits. All name brand German, all over a year old (except salt & test kits). They cost more but like I said serious longevity. I can’t afford there cars but there Aquarium related items are great. Just something about that German precision
Well myself (as I’m sure the rest of you do) have WAYYYY too much money invested into the hobby to trust just random generic junk to keep my critters alive and my floors dry!
So I buy well trusted brand names for DT, as for the stuff for mixing stations and water changes etc. even that I won’t buy without reading all the reviews or having it recommended from trusted reefers because I’m a strong believer in ”you get what you pay for” and in one way or another cutting corners will bite you in the A**
So yeppers
And
Happy Holidays
So I buy well trusted brand names for DT, as for the stuff for mixing stations and water changes etc. even that I won’t buy without reading all the reviews or having it recommended from trusted reefers because I’m a strong believer in ”you get what you pay for” and in one way or another cutting corners will bite you in the A**
So yeppers
And
Happy Holidays
When it comes to essential parts in a system I'm not going to skimp. I may not buy top of the line, but I will buy items that have a above average reviews, which is normally going to be name brand.
Other things I'll skimp on... 7.50 heater for my mixing station and a 8.00 power head... sign me up. Like others this isn't something that is crucial in the running of my tanks.
Food/Additives - Nope
Lighting - Nope, cheap lights may be outside the spectrum and cause issues
Lighting Fixtures - Ummmm again I'll go mid grade, but hydroponic fixtures are dirt cheap on Amazon. They may be kinda plain looking. They don't have cooling or soft start, which will cause your bulbs not to last as long... but the difference is negligible when bulbs lasting say 10% less. If on a budget then that is the way to go IMO. If it's a frag tank and out of site... bring me that 100.00 8 tube 36" light fixture! But then let me pay out the butt for the tubes.
Return Pump - I'll go middle of the road on this one. I won't by top end, but I won't buy bottom end either. This piece of equipment fails and your heaters/chillers are in your sump.... well that may give you some big issues in your display. I'm surprised to read that a lot of people seem to skimp on this area. Though I also use two return pumps when I can for redundancy ... same goes for heaters.
Heaters - I'll go mid to upper. Some brands and models are tried and true and work just as well as the higher end stuff. I do however run a temp sensor on mine which turn them on and off, just in case one gets stuck in the on position. I won't nuke the tank.
Salt/Additives - I tend to use mid to upper range here... again it has to do with the livestock... I paid to much for my corals for them not to thrive. I want those suckers to grow and multiply so I can sell/trade to continue to fund my hobby.
Power heads - again middle of the road and that means I may go with a lesser name brand, but one that I've researched well. If I pay 100.00 for a pair and say a top name brand that has the same flow rating is 400.00, but I get two years out of them before they croak versus say 4-5 years out of the 400.00 pair... I have still come out ahead as by then something else will be out on the market.
Many of these "generics" are simply expired patents or they have reversed engineered and made minor changes to get around patents. I can remember when Tunze had a pure nightmare of time on their magnets leaking and plastic clips breaking, due to them cutting corners and changing makers of those parts.
If you stop and think though.... if everyone bought nothing but top end stuff in our hobby and pushed the Generics out of the picture, then soon the bottom end of the top end would become the generic stuff that so many often shun. It would also become a hobby of the elite, demand would drop and coral/fish suppliers would dwindle and soon those that remain could set the price bar high and cater to those who can afford it.
Cheap stuff allows this hobby to still thrive to an extent.
Is there stuff being sold in our hobby that has no business being here and is aimed clearly at those on a shoe string budget and no matter what that person does they are setting themselves up for failure due to ignorance, but being sold a dream at a discount? Yeap.
When I was looking at doing a frag tank recently I looked at all those wonderful frag racks out there. I even bought a couple of different ones with magnet mounts. Those I'm willing to pay a bit more for.. are they over priced... oh good god yes. ..... but when it comes to frag racks to sit on the bottom of the tank... I'm not paying 40.00 for a piece of plexiglass/acrylic/ABS plastic with holes drilled in it with 4-6 legs glued to it as supports when I can buy white or black eggcrate for less than 20.00 for twice the coverage area and throw PVC couplings that cost me .79 each and give better water flow vs a sheet of solid plastic.
Other things I'll skimp on... 7.50 heater for my mixing station and a 8.00 power head... sign me up. Like others this isn't something that is crucial in the running of my tanks.
Food/Additives - Nope
Lighting - Nope, cheap lights may be outside the spectrum and cause issues
Lighting Fixtures - Ummmm again I'll go mid grade, but hydroponic fixtures are dirt cheap on Amazon. They may be kinda plain looking. They don't have cooling or soft start, which will cause your bulbs not to last as long... but the difference is negligible when bulbs lasting say 10% less. If on a budget then that is the way to go IMO. If it's a frag tank and out of site... bring me that 100.00 8 tube 36" light fixture! But then let me pay out the butt for the tubes.
Return Pump - I'll go middle of the road on this one. I won't by top end, but I won't buy bottom end either. This piece of equipment fails and your heaters/chillers are in your sump.... well that may give you some big issues in your display. I'm surprised to read that a lot of people seem to skimp on this area. Though I also use two return pumps when I can for redundancy ... same goes for heaters.
Heaters - I'll go mid to upper. Some brands and models are tried and true and work just as well as the higher end stuff. I do however run a temp sensor on mine which turn them on and off, just in case one gets stuck in the on position. I won't nuke the tank.
Salt/Additives - I tend to use mid to upper range here... again it has to do with the livestock... I paid to much for my corals for them not to thrive. I want those suckers to grow and multiply so I can sell/trade to continue to fund my hobby.
Power heads - again middle of the road and that means I may go with a lesser name brand, but one that I've researched well. If I pay 100.00 for a pair and say a top name brand that has the same flow rating is 400.00, but I get two years out of them before they croak versus say 4-5 years out of the 400.00 pair... I have still come out ahead as by then something else will be out on the market.
Many of these "generics" are simply expired patents or they have reversed engineered and made minor changes to get around patents. I can remember when Tunze had a pure nightmare of time on their magnets leaking and plastic clips breaking, due to them cutting corners and changing makers of those parts.
If you stop and think though.... if everyone bought nothing but top end stuff in our hobby and pushed the Generics out of the picture, then soon the bottom end of the top end would become the generic stuff that so many often shun. It would also become a hobby of the elite, demand would drop and coral/fish suppliers would dwindle and soon those that remain could set the price bar high and cater to those who can afford it.
Cheap stuff allows this hobby to still thrive to an extent.
Is there stuff being sold in our hobby that has no business being here and is aimed clearly at those on a shoe string budget and no matter what that person does they are setting themselves up for failure due to ignorance, but being sold a dream at a discount? Yeap.
When I was looking at doing a frag tank recently I looked at all those wonderful frag racks out there. I even bought a couple of different ones with magnet mounts. Those I'm willing to pay a bit more for.. are they over priced... oh good god yes. ..... but when it comes to frag racks to sit on the bottom of the tank... I'm not paying 40.00 for a piece of plexiglass/acrylic/ABS plastic with holes drilled in it with 4-6 legs glued to it as supports when I can buy white or black eggcrate for less than 20.00 for twice the coverage area and throw PVC couplings that cost me .79 each and give better water flow vs a sheet of solid plastic.
I do my due diligence. Brand name doesn't always equal better. Better doesn't even always equal best for the situation.
Products are designed to fail eventually. Let's say there is a product that lasts 3 years and costs 500. The knockoff lasts only a year and costs 100. So I buy 3 knockoffs over 3 years and save 200 over the product that supposed to be better. Of course then I don't get to brag about my name brand item, but I don't care about that.
Products are designed to fail eventually. Let's say there is a product that lasts 3 years and costs 500. The knockoff lasts only a year and costs 100. So I buy 3 knockoffs over 3 years and save 200 over the product that supposed to be better. Of course then I don't get to brag about my name brand item, but I don't care about that.
Depends on what it is. Equipment comes down to their customer service and warranty. If getting in touch with the company is not happening, it wont be for a critical component. Something like a reactor pump, eh something that fits.
Interesting study was done on generic vs name brand over counter pain meds like advil. Had 4 groups those getting name brand and told they were, those getting generic and told they were name brand. Those getting name brand and told generic and those getting generic and told generic. Groups 1 and 2 had the same amount of pain reduction reported. Basically buy one bottle of name brand and just keep refilling with generic
Interesting study was done on generic vs name brand over counter pain meds like advil. Had 4 groups those getting name brand and told they were, those getting generic and told they were name brand. Those getting name brand and told generic and those getting generic and told generic. Groups 1 and 2 had the same amount of pain reduction reported. Basically buy one bottle of name brand and just keep refilling with generic
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