Looking for High CRI (95) Natural/Full spectrum 5000-6500K LED strip

[Doctorgori]

That’s VERY close to what I’m looking for

 

[Doctorgori]

Have you looked at Migro grow lights? They use CRI 95

MIGRO Grow Light shop | LED Grow Lights | UVB grow light | PAR sensors

The MIGRO ARAY. The best LED grow lights on the market, high efficiency LED grow lights, modular LED grow lights, LED grow light strips, UVB grow lights, grow light meters, grow light PAR sensors, grow light quantum sensors and Grow Light controllers.

migrolight.com

And that ain’t bad either, I also like the form factor and the way you can link multiple units…Price is inline

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I had a few 6500k led flood lights in my saved cart at amazon looks like they are not available currently. I did have a pair that worked great on a planted tank that lasted about 3 years from those. I believe they were 150w. I didnt have a par meter at the time so no idea what output actually was. This had me looking this morning check out the Relassy store there is a "450w" 150w actual model shows a spectral graph but no cri or actual temp but came up with a 6500k search, graph looks about right. The t5 led replacement bulbs from the local grow shop last me about 18 months and I dont know how much par they actually deliver. Also they only come in 2' and 4'. Those are from sunlight supply. They sell a white and blue "grow" and one that is alot of red /orange "bloom". The grow is cooler than 6500k but with a mix of 2 grow to 1 bloom looks about right to my eye. Grows plants in and out of water well. Never tested par on these either guess I should, maybe tonight. These are nowhere near as bright as the flood lights were, but the plants seem to like them.

I know none of this is as scientific as others. So maybe less than as helpful as I was hoping.

I used to get the old 5000 & 6500k T8's in my freshwater days.

To actually possibly help, as I'm the farthest thing from a lighting guru have you considered having a fixture made with custom led's to creat your own spectrum.

I used Alie populargrow brand with a custom led selection to create a 14kish spectrum when I was running my 4ft tank. I loved the results. Sounds like you want a 36" fixture, which they can do.

 

[Doctorgori]

have you considered having a fixture made with custom led's to creat your own spectrum.

Yes/No ….
Yes I considered it… No, because I didn’t know if it was possible …

And it’s not just the spectrum, what I’m trying to achieve is a color rendition close to the sun…I want to see what a coral is “supposed” to look like when viewed under natural lighting … it’s kinda we’ve been living in a blue world too long thing and I want to travel back in time…
… so one caveat being I’m gonna need to be told the actual CRI as I know nothing about how to derive at it

Anyway, I suspect ultimately this is what I’m going to end up doing what you suggest (blending custom LEDs) with some adult supervision

 

[oreo54]

That’s VERY close to what I’m looking for

es, that's a 1/2 meter down and the "daylight" has had some red/IR and violet/UV attenuation.
now this is a spot sample of one ocean.
Point is you want just 100% "daylight" before attenuation. You will lose red ect in 24" of water.
You don't want to start with that loss or you lose more.

Point is the Bridgelux eb cobs or Seoul strips are probably your best start. Adding colors will allow some experimentation around the daylight spectrum.

 

[Doctorgori]

Point is you want just 100% "daylight" before attenuation. You will lose red ect in 24" of water.
You don't want to start with that loss or you lose more.

That’s a great point as the CRI and whatever wavelengths ultimately are dependent on water depth. But as I understand it, there isn’t “exactly” a “hard stop” for red at an exact depth….sorta a numbers game ( otherwise there would be no color rendering under water)

Also I fully realize it’s hard to duplicate sunlight with a single point of artificial light. Obviously a lot of light energy converts to heat and moreover a lot of light energy will be wasted going full spectrum. But that’s the whole point: I actually want to subject the tank to those wasted bandwidth’s just like nature (as opposed to lighting with a unit designed to specifically feed zooxanthelle)
Side bar: I wonder if some of the “wasted” bandwidth from MH is actually wasted
anyway..
The tank will be a 40g breeder, so whatever lighting gets the job done at that depth, I’m gonna have to defer to your or others experience

 

[twentyleagues]

That’s a great point as the CRI and whatever wavelengths ultimately are dependent on water depth. But as I understand it, there isn’t “exactly” a “hard stop” for red at an exact depth….sorta a numbers game ( otherwise there would be no color rendering under water)

Also I fully realize it’s hard to duplicate sunlight with a single point of artificial light. Obviously a lot of light energy converts to heat and moreover a lot of light energy will be wasted going full spectrum. But that’s the whole point: I actually want to subject the tank to those wasted bandwidth’s just like nature (as opposed to lighting with a unit designed to specifically feed zooxanthelle)
Side bar: I wonder if some of the “wasted” bandwidth from MH is actually wasted
anyway..
The tank will be a 40g breeder, so whatever lighting gets the job done at that depth, I’m gonna have to defer to your or others experience

Might be overkill, under par, some other thing I havent thought of... Kessils? I have 3 160 tuna suns on my 125g fahaka tank which is planted. I have them on a spectral controller at about 45% they are the older kessils though, I know they have reworked their chips. Light color wise very much 6500k.

 

[Doctorgori]

Might be overkill, under par, some other thing I havent thought of... Kessils? I have 3 160 tuna suns on my 125g fahaka tank which is planted. I have them on a spectral controller at about 45% they are the older kessils though, I know they have reworked their chips. Light color wise very much 6500k.

I had the purple cans for a very long while, sold them still working after years…hold up well over saltwater also…

Off the shelf options being the best time/complexity compromise… I am budgeting up to $600 but the less the better of course…
OTOH I will custom build just to be near Sunlight …
UV is another consideration… The few debates I’ve come across didn’t convince me either way

 

[dansyr]

Chiming in to say I've used those EB strips oreo linked earlier for >6 years driven at their nominal (half max) current without heatsinks. They are SUPER efficient lumen/watt wise btw, definitely drops off as you go higher CRI but just a plug for em. This was for plant shelves.

On my 'main' SPS/clam tank I also used those same high-CRI BXRE COB's that oreo linked. Clearly we think alike These definitely do need heatsinks though.

The BXREs are not the only light, I will say visually, they look very 5K (i.e. yellower than 6500), when those LEDs are on by themselves, without the other helper LEDs. But I just put in a mix of other 3w LEDs of various wavelengths and brought spectrum up to the visually ~6500-8000 (less than 10000K). No idea of actual spectrum, a friend did bring PAR so I know that but not spectrum. Aesthetically it looks "full" and around what I associate with 1-3m reef.

 

[Doctorgori]

Aesthetically it looks "full" and around what I associate with 1-3m reef.

Nail on head. .. I’m going to want the look to be at the depth the tank is (more or less)
Again I realize full sun duplication is impossible, but I want to leave out as few variables as possible ( regardless of whether some study claims different)
This includes UV and any other wasted stuff I can throw in (within reason)
OTOH I’m not trying to heat the tank with the light

 

[oreo54]

Chiming in to say I've used those EB strips oreo linked earlier for >6 years driven at their nominal (half max) current without heatsinks. They are SUPER efficient lumen/watt wise btw, definitely drops off as you go higher CRI but just a plug for em. This was for plant shelves.

Keep in mind what "lumens" is and what is measured.. A pure 660nm red and royal blue unit may have really low lumens yet really high par.
The more red/blue in a light the less lumens.

That was CREE's "trick" Like 60-70 CRI (more green/yellow) units had 150-ish L/W.

It's not a good measure for high CRI lights.
Sort of misleading.

Proof..since Lux is just lumens/area put it into this calculator.

Convert Lux to PPFD - Online Calculator | Waveform Lighting

Online calculator to convert illuminance (lux) to PPFD (micromoles per second per meter squared).

www.waveformlighting.com

Set it to daylight then red/blue led
1000 Lux in daylight is 23 PPFD
Low cri led is 13.1 PPFD @ 1000 lux
red/ blue led is 88.73 PPFD @ 1000 lux
red/blue @ 250 lux is 22.18 PPFD

 

[Doctorgori]

just some thoughts..
I am thinking about trolling the photo forums for white light coral pics…gotta be some somewhere…
wondering about color temp, cri and fixture specs …
I’ll report back on my own thread LOL

 

[Doctorgori]

A pure 660nm red and royal blue unit may have really low lumens yet really high par.
The more red/blue in a light the less lumens.

Thank you, these threads really provide us a education opportunity…this takes time to come in here and share…
sincere thanks

 

[twentyleagues]

I had the purple cans for a very long while, sold them still working after years…hold up well over saltwater also…

Off the shelf options being the best time/complexity compromise… I am budgeting up to $600 but the less the better of course…
OTOH I will custom build just to be near Sunlight …
UV is another consideration… The few debates I’ve come across didn’t convince me either way

Not the purple the green ones. Purple are fuge lights, Right?

 

[Doctorgori]

Not the purple the green ones. Purple are fuge lights, Right?

I dunno, I did use them on my fudge but can’t recall if they were reef lights or what,,,,, this had to be 10yrs ago,
I think they they were called160’s or something…they looked like yours but the color was purple

 

[twentyleagues]

I dunno, I did use them on my fudge but can’t recall if they were reef lights or what,,,,, this had to be 10yrs ago,
I think they they were called160’s or something…they looked like yours but the color was purple

Gotcha. I am pretty sure the blue were tuna blues, green tuna sun and purple fuge light. I dont know if they still do that or not but the tuna suns go from like 6000k -9000k. The 160s are the mid size ones you may want the 360s for coverage and that blows the budget. The 160s cover 18x18 pretty well though.

 

[Doctorgori]

Just posting as this thought develops

2ea 40 breeders drilled & 3/4”
40 breeder (as common sump)
100g total system capacity to make things easy
- tank #1 5500K or thereabouts with 90 CRI or greater
- tank #2. off the shelf standard retail reef light.

Won’t bore anyone here with an equipment list but priority are the lights. Any suggestions for tank #2? it just needs to be reasonable functional and blue: better than Nicrew but no need for Radions

 

[Doctorgori]

So I read up on how they figured CRI and now I’m not sure it’s relevant
Here is the short version:
Therefore, light sources that mimic incandescent light or daylight for the eight color samples are, by definition, the ones that will score highest on the CRI.

So basically any correlation between CRI and how a object is rendered under artificial light compared to actual sunlight, has no clear basis I can find (at least for LEDs)
I have no clue how to approximate sunlight with LEDs whatsoever

Just for a baseline,I copied this
Color Rendering Index and LEDs

here is a excerpt anyway

How is CRI Measured?
CRI is understood to be a measure of how well light sources render the colors of
objects, materials, and skin tones. How is the CRI number actually calculated? The test procedure involves comparing the appearance of eight color samples (see upper right for an approximation) under the light in question and a reference light source. The average differences measured are subtracted from 100 to get the CRI. So small average differences will result in a higher score, while larger differences give a lower number. Of all the colors possible, only these eight are measured. Further, the samples used are pastels, not saturated colors.
CRI is calculated by measuring the difference between the lamp in question and a reference lamp in terms of how they render the eight color samples. If the lamp to be tested has a correlated color temperature (CCT) of less than 5000 Kelvin (K), the reference source is a black body radiator (approximately like an incandescent lamp). For higher CCT sources, the reference is a specifically defined spectrum of daylight. Therefore, light sources that mimic incandescent light or daylight for the eight color samples are, by definition, the ones that will score highest on the CRI.
“Tuning” the Spectrum for High CRI
Over the years, fluorescent phosphors have been tuned and refined to render those eight color samples well, i.e., very much like the incandescent or daylight references. But look at the “spikes” in the spectral power distribution (SPD) for the fluorescent source in Figure 1 below. If the phosphors were changed just slightly, shifting the emission wavelengths, the CRI score may drop significantly, but with little change in color rendering as perceived
by the human eye. Phosphorconverted (PC) LEDs use broadband phosphors to score relatively high (70 90+) on the CRI scale.
Terms
General Color Rendering – Color rendering is defined as the “effect of an illuminant on the colour appearance
of objects by conscious or unconscious comparison with their colour appearance under a reference illuminant” (CIE 17.4, International Lighting Vocabulary).
Color Rendering Indices – The General Color Rendering Index Ra is calculated in accordance with CIE 13.31995, Method of Measuring and Specifying Colour Rendering Properties of Light Sources. It is the arithmetic mean (i.e., average) of the Specific Color Rendering Indices for each test color and is usually referred to simply as the CRI value of a test illuminant.
Test Colors – Eight pastel test colors are used to determine the color shifts and hence the Specific Color Rendering Indices for a test illuminant. Six additional colors are sometimes used for special purposes, but they are not used for calculating Ra.
Color Shifts – The perceived color shifts seen when viewing test colors under
the test and reference illuminants are calculated using mathematical models of human color vision. They may not however correspond with what we actually perceive under realworld circumstances.

 

[Doctorgori]

back to square one…Could this be a photography problem?

Is there anything that measures how close a lighting source is to sunlight, or is it just a broad flat/even spectral spread?

Anyone please

 

[oreo54]

So I read up on how they figured CRI and now I’m not sure it’s relevant
Here is the short version:
Therefore, light sources that mimic incandescent light or daylight for the eight color samples are, by definition, the ones that will score highest on the CRI.

So basically any correlation between CRI and how a object is rendered under artificial light compared to actual sunlight, has no clear basis I can find (at least for LEDs)
I have no clue how to approximate sunlight with LEDs whatsoever

Just for a baseline,I copied this
Color Rendering Index and LEDs

here is a excerpt anyway

There are any number of " standard light sources" used .
E g

CRI is sort of obsolete at this point. LEDs revealed deficiencies in using the 8 patch system.Even adding the extra saturated color and skin tone patches wasn't deemed sufficient.

TM-30 uses 99 swatches ..

TM-30 Simplified

Understanding the basics of TM-30 in relation to CRI, and why it's important

www.dmflighting.com

The 2 important metrics are R(f) and R(g)
F for fidelity , 100 being a perfect match to the "standard"
G for gamut... <100 and some colours are desaturated. Over 100 some are over saturated.
As an example RGB led lights used in fw will generally have low ( f ) but >100 ( g ).
Appealing but inaccurate.