ich or velvet or both?

[jtf74]

Either way they are all in copper QT again and I don't have pics so realize it may be hard. I got a hippo tang early December. It looked perfect. The guy I got it from said he had it for months, had qt'd all his fish, hadn't added anything new for several months. Stupid me skipped QT. Two weeks later the tang has two salt like specs, and both my butterflies (mostly on fins) had a dozen or so small white spots. I was pretty sure it was ich at this point based on the size, the coming and going, and hippos being known to get it. I figured maybe it just wasn't showing symptoms in his tank (or he lied). My clowns, angels, damsels, gramma, showed nothing. I moved them all into QT and started copper power treatment a couple days after discovering. Had to put them all back into a display again though after about 10 days as my ammonia spiked, and they all appeared symptom free at that time. The qt cycled and the fish looked good for about a week or more. I saw a few spots come and go on the tang and gramma and still thinking its ich I didn't get in a hurry to treat as I wanted to make sure QT was cycled this time. I wake up one morning and my yellow longnose is pretty well covered so I put him in QT first. The rest look fine. A week goes by and the blue tang goes from clean to pretty well covered over night so into the QT with him. Other fish still look fine. This morning now one clown is just covered. The spots look smaller than ich to me and theres so so many of them. From reading up this makes me think velvet now. I just can't imagine that the tang was living in a tank with velvet and didn't die though. I've not added anything for years so i know it wasn't in my system before the tang. Breathing seems normal to me and no gasping at the surface and all have been eating well still though i have worries about my clowns now they are separated from their nems. Also and its hard to see in the tub, I can't see anything on her now after about 30 minutes in the copper tank. From humblefish site it sure looks more like this pic which is listed as velvet.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Either way they are all in copper QT again and I don't have pics so realize it may be hard. I got a hippo tang early December. It looked perfect. The guy I got it from said he had it for months, had qt'd all his fish, hadn't added anything new for several months. Stupid me skipped QT. Two weeks later the tang has two salt like specs, and both my butterflies (mostly on fins) had a dozen or so small white spots. I was pretty sure it was ich at this point based on the size, the coming and going, and hippos being known to get it. I figured maybe it just wasn't showing symptoms in his tank (or he lied). My clowns, angels, damsels, gramma, showed nothing. I moved them all into QT and started copper power treatment a couple days after discovering. Had to put them all back into a display again though after about 10 days as my ammonia spiked, and they all appeared symptom free at that time. The qt cycled and the fish looked good for about a week or more. I saw a few spots come and go on the tang and gramma and still thinking its ich I didn't get in a hurry to treat as I wanted to make sure QT was cycled this time. I wake up one morning and my yellow longnose is pretty well covered so I put him in QT first. The rest look fine. A week goes by and the blue tang goes from clean to pretty well covered over night so into the QT with him. Other fish still look fine. This morning now one clown is just covered. The spots look smaller than ich to me and theres so so many of them. From reading up this makes me think velvet now. I just can't imagine that the tang was living in a tank with velvet and didn't die though. I've not added anything for years so i know it wasn't in my system before the tang. Breathing seems normal to me and no gasping at the surface and all have been eating well still though i have worries about my clowns now they are separated from their nems. Also and its hard to see in the tub, I can't see anything on her now after about 30 minutes in the copper tank. From humblefish site it sure looks more like this pic which is listed as velvet.

This is velvet and a fish that is susceptible to velvet. With velvet, fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.
Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets velvet apart from ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan velvet-like film, given the name Velvet Disease.
Treat the fish in QT with a copper-based medication. My treatment choice is coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand). Assure the medication you use states treats Oodinum.

 

[jtf74]

This is velvet and a fish that is susceptible to velvet. With velvet, fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.
Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets velvet apart from ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan velvet-like film, given the name Velvet Disease.
Treat the fish in QT with a copper-based medication. My treatment choice is coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand). Assure the medication you use states treats Oodinum.

You realize the picture of the achilles tang here is one i found online with velvet yes? I used it as reference for how my clown looked. Still think thats the issue given the written description?

 

[vetteguy53081]

You realize the picture of the achilles tang here is one i found online with velvet yes? I used it as reference for how my clown looked. Still think thats the issue given the written description?

I did not but to properly assess any fish, please post actual pics of fish as You can get a wrong recommendation or treatment suggestion from a file photo

 

[jtf74]

I did not but to properly assess any fish, please post actual pics of fish as You can get a wrong recommendation or treatment suggestion from a file photo

Yes I understand but can't get pics now that they are in a QT tub. I was hoping the description might rule out velvet as a possibility, given the circumstances. It has to be one of the two or both given copper power has proven a very effective treatment.

 

[Lavey29]

Just treating a few fish and then adding back to your tank will do nothing to stop the spread of this disease. All fish need 30 days of treatment and your display tank needs to fallow 45 to 76 days.

 

[jtf74]

Just treating a few fish and then adding back to your tank will do nothing to stop the spread of this disease. All fish need 30 days of treatment and your display tank needs to fallow 45 to 76 days.

I know that. I had to remove them all because of an ammonia spike and then started with the worst cases first to reduce the bioload since half had no symptoms. I have 3 months fallow time so was going to treat in batches.

 

[jtf74]

"That doesn’t sound like velvet - with that disease, the primary symptom is not eating and very rapid breathing, soon followed by death. You will not see spots with velvet.
This sounds more like ich, and I’ve seen some cases where gobies survived an ich outbreak.
Peroxide dips don’t work for ich, and while they do work for velvet, you need to move the fish to a sterile tank after each dip or they just get reinfected."
Jay

So I'm thinking its not velvet. All are eating well, no gasping at the surface, or heavy breathing, and spots were clearly visible on all of them plus I've not lost a fish since I first saw symptoms back in mid/early December.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Either way they are all in copper QT again and I don't have pics so realize it may be hard. I got a hippo tang early December. It looked perfect. The guy I got it from said he had it for months, had qt'd all his fish, hadn't added anything new for several months. Stupid me skipped QT. Two weeks later the tang has two salt like specs, and both my butterflies (mostly on fins) had a dozen or so small white spots. I was pretty sure it was ich at this point based on the size, the coming and going, and hippos being known to get it. I figured maybe it just wasn't showing symptoms in his tank (or he lied). My clowns, angels, damsels, gramma, showed nothing. I moved them all into QT and started copper power treatment a couple days after discovering. Had to put them all back into a display again though after about 10 days as my ammonia spiked, and they all appeared symptom free at that time. The qt cycled and the fish looked good for about a week or more. I saw a few spots come and go on the tang and gramma and still thinking its ich I didn't get in a hurry to treat as I wanted to make sure QT was cycled this time. I wake up one morning and my yellow longnose is pretty well covered so I put him in QT first. The rest look fine. A week goes by and the blue tang goes from clean to pretty well covered over night so into the QT with him. Other fish still look fine. This morning now one clown is just covered. The spots look smaller than ich to me and theres so so many of them. From reading up this makes me think velvet now. I just can't imagine that the tang was living in a tank with velvet and didn't die though. I've not added anything for years so i know it wasn't in my system before the tang. Breathing seems normal to me and no gasping at the surface and all have been eating well still though i have worries about my clowns now they are separated from their nems. Also and its hard to see in the tub, I can't see anything on her now after about 30 minutes in the copper tank. From humblefish site it sure looks more like this pic which is listed as velvet.

That fish has a severe case of marine ich, Cryptocaryon irritans. The spots are too large to be velvet, Amyloodinium. Velvet always causes extremely rapid breathing.

This may be difficult to stop in time, but coppersafe at 2.5 ppm would be my choice of treatment.

Jay

 

[jtf74]

That fish has a severe case of marine ich, Cryptocaryon irritans. The spots are too large to be velvet, Amyloodinium. Velvet always causes extremely rapid breathing.

This may be difficult to stop in time, but coppersafe at 2.5 ppm would be my choice of treatment.

Jay

I think people didn't get that this tang pic is for reference as I can't get actual photos in the QT tub. The fish I had concern about is a maroon clown. I've had my copperpower QT going for some time and the clown is in there now and no spots. Eating and doing fine. I read something about velvet being too numerous spots to count and the tang pic came from humblefish site listed as velvet and very closely resembled what I was seeing. Also it went from nothing to completely covered overnight so it seemed too aggressive for ich.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think people didn't get that this tang pic is for reference as I can't get actual photos in the QT tub. The fish I had concern about is a maroon clown. I've had my copperpower QT going for some time and the clown is in there now and no spots. Eating and doing fine. I read something about velvet being too numerous spots to count and the tang pic came from humblefish site listed as velvet and very closely resembled what I was seeing. Also it went from nothing to completely covered overnight so it seemed too aggressive for ich.

Ah - never post a "sample" pic of some other fish. It's too confusing, and then, what you think you are seeing with your own fish may not be what is represented in the sample pic given. That tang does NOT have velvet though (grin).

Copper Power at 2.5 ppm, accurately measured is your best option to control ich. However, this parasite multiplies geometrically, and Copper Power can take three days to work - so, fish can died from ich before the Copper Power has time to work.

Jay