Ick or Velvet???

[mfraembs]

First I have to say thank god this popped up in my quarantine tank! but now a heavier hand of treatment is going to be needed. I picked up a clown tang and a good size Copper band butterfly from my LFS on Saturday. Both fish looked very healthy and the Copperband I even observed eating at my LFS. I put both fish in my 20 gal qt and was planning to observe and let them get settled for a few days before I started my prophylactic treatment.

This morning I woke up and saw a good amount of white spots on both fish.... I immediately started my dose of copper power with a dose this morning and another dose this evening. I typically like to bring them up slowly but with the sign of white spot I am ramping up that duration. I also dosed nitrofurazone to help with the gills and some Dr. Tim's first defense to help with the slime coat.

I hope this is ick and not velvet due to the pretty quick spread, what's your thoughts from the video attached???

My copper is sitting at 1.02 PPM after today's treatment and plan to get a little above 2.0 with three more doses of copper power tomorrow. With the copper band assuming all goes well I don't plan to keep it around 2.15 PPM if all goes well. I typically will bring the fish up to 2.0 over a course of a week but figured quicker is better in this case.

I am planning to observe the progress and hopefully the ick will fall off the fish in the next few days, at that time I will do a 100% water change at that time or after 3 days; whichever comes first. Let me know if you have any suggestions or if you would change anything? I am a bit new to the QT treatment process and haven't actually treated a fish with an active outbreak of this parasite.

The tang looks to be more infected than the Copperband but it may also be harder to tell with the color of the Copperband......

 

[Jay Hemdal]

First I have to say thank god this popped up in my quarantine tank! but now a heavier hand of treatment is going to be needed. I picked up a clown tang and a good size Copper band butterfly from my LFS on Saturday. Both fish looked very healthy and the Copperband I even observed eating at my LFS. I put both fish in my 20 gal qt and was planning to observe and let them get settled for a few days before I started my prophylactic treatment.

This morning I woke up and saw a good amount of white spots on both fish.... I immediately started my dose of copper power with a dose this morning and another dose this evening. I typically like to bring them up slowly but with the sign of white spot I am ramping up that duration. I also dosed nitrofurazone to help with the gills and some Dr. Tim's first defense to help with the slime coat.

I hope this is ick and not velvet due to the pretty quick spread, what's your thoughts from the video attached???

My copper is sitting at 1.02 PPM after today's treatment and plan to get a little above 2.0 with three more doses of copper power tomorrow. With the copper band assuming all goes well I don't plan to keep it around 2.15 PPM if all goes well. I typically will bring the fish up to 2.0 over a course of a week but figured quicker is better in this case.

I am planning to observe the progress and hopefully the ick will fall off the fish in the next few days, at that time I will do a 100% water change at that time or after 3 days; whichever comes first. Let me know if you have any suggestions or if you would change anything? I am a bit new to the QT treatment process and haven't actually treated a fish with an active outbreak of this parasite.

The tang looks to be more infected than the Copperband but it may also be harder to tell with the color of the Copperband......

Yes - that's marine ich, Cryptocaryon. It's a pretty severe case. You need to get to a full 2.25 to 2.5 ppm dose ASAP. It will still take up to three days at a full copper dose to slow the infection, and the fish may get worse during that time, but hopefully it will kick in soon enough.

Copper Power and Coppersafe do not need to be ramped up slowly, just in two stages, 12 to 24 hours apart in order to get an accurate dose. Dealers will add fish right into full copper systems all the time with no issues. Taking longer to ramp up copper is only needed for ionic copper medications.

Ramping up slowly just allows the protozoans to gain a foothold, as the copper doesn't work until you reach a full dose.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Jay has answered this. Assure you keep in coppersafe (monitored with hanna brand copper test kit) for a Full 30 days. If other fish in the tank, they too have been exposed and will too have to be treated.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[mfraembs]

First I have to say thank god this popped up in my quarantine tank! but now a heavier hand of treatment is going to be needed. I picked up a clown tang and a good size Copper band butterfly from my LFS on Saturday. Both fish looked very healthy and the Copperband I even observed eating at my LFS. I put both fish in my 20 gal qt and was planning to observe and let them get settled for a few days before I started my prophylactic treatment.

This morning I woke up and saw a good amount of white spots on both fish.... I immediately started my dose of copper power with a dose this morning and another dose this evening. I typically like to bring them up slowly but with the sign of white spot I am ramping up that duration. I also dosed nitrofurazone to help with the gills and some Dr. Tim's first defense to help with the slime coat.

I hope this is ick and not velvet due to the pretty quick spread, what's your thoughts from the video attached???

My copper is sitting at 1.02 PPM after today's treatment and plan to get a little above 2.0 with three more doses of copper power tomorrow. With the copper band assuming all goes well I don't plan to keep it around 2.15 PPM if all goes well. I typically will bring the fish up to 2.0 over a course of a week but figured quicker is better in this case.

I am planning to observe the progress and hopefully the ick will fall off the fish in the next few days, at that time I will do a 100% water change at that time or after 3 days; whichever comes first. Let me know if you have any suggestions or if you would change anything? I am a bit new to the QT treatment process and haven't actually treated a fish with an active outbreak of this parasite.

The tang looks to be more infected than the Copperband but it may also be harder to tell with the color of the Copperband......

Yes - that's marine ich, Cryptocaryon. It's a pretty severe case. You need to get to a full 2.25 to 2.5 ppm dose ASAP. It will still take up to three days at a full copper dose to slow the infection, and the fish may get worse during that time, but hopefully it will kick in soon enough.

Copper Power and Coppersafe do not need to be ramped up slowly, just in two stages, 12 to 24 hours apart in order to get an accurate dose. Dealers will add fish right into full copper systems all the time with no issues. Taking longer to ramp up copper is only needed for ionic copper medications.

Ramping up slowly just allows the protozoans to gain a foothold, as the copper doesn't work until you reach a full dose.

Jay,
Thanks a bunch for the info, I am going to get the copper up to that level ASAP. The copper band seems to be doing really well but am not sure if the clown tang will make it. showing signs of labored breathing along with bumping into objects while swimming. I guess only time will tell.....

I will post updates to this thread on how the progress goes with them. I can't stress enough how happy I am that I integrated a QT system with my recent build! I am sure this would have wiped out my display if they would have been in that system!

 

[mfraembs]

Jay has answered this. Assure you keep in coppersafe (monitored with hanna brand copper test kit) for a Full 30 days. If other fish in the tank, they too have been exposed and will too have to be treated.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

Luckily these fish went straight into my QT tank, on this recent build I treat all my fish prophylacticly and I feel this has saved my entire display!!!

I use the Hanna to test my copper, fingers crossed that they pull through!

 

[get-salty]

if they are dots = ich
if they are "stringy" = marine velvet

 

[mfraembs]

if they are dots = ich
if they are "stringy" = marine velvet

Luckily they are not stringy and seems to be ich, still not ideal but luckily there is a fighting chance!!! Jay also seems to think it ich.

Thanks!!!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Luckily they are not stringy and seems to be ich, still not ideal but luckily there is a fighting chance!!! Jay also seems to think it ich.

Thanks!!!

True marine velvet shows as the fish not eating, very rapid respiration, and sometimes hanging in water currents. You will never see distinct white spots. Towards the end of an infection, the fish may show a “dusty sheen”, but you can’t really see discrete spots. People confuse pictures of freshwater fish with velvet, those do have distinct spots, but that is a different species of parasite.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Dots can be ich, mucus cones or secondary bacterial. Velvet is as implied, a dusty like appearance and tell tale signs such as swimming in path of water flow , heavy breathing, loss of appetite as examples

Luckily they are not stringy and seems to be ich, still not ideal but luckily there is a fighting chance!!! Jay also seems to think it ich.

Thanks!!!

 

[mfraembs]

Update
I lost the clown tang.... , luckily the Copperband seems to be doing good and hope I can get him cured!

 

[vetteguy53081]

The clown was in very bad shape at time of posting and sad as they are tough as nails. Mine is 10"

Update
I lost the clown tang.... , luckily the Copperband seems to be doing good and hope I can get him cured!

 

[mfraembs]

The clown was in very bad shape at time of posting and sad as they are tough as nails. Mine is 10"

Your clown tang is stunning! The one I had was very similar in vibrant colors like yours, I plan to try another one as soon as I have this round of QT wrapped up. Hopefully I am able to go the full cycle which will mean the Copperband makes it!

 

[mfraembs]

Update #2
Copper is now at 2.28 and copperband seems to be doing well! Below are some photos for reference. He is still eating well and is coming out of his cave a bit more often. Breathing is also normal! .

For some reason I can’t get my videos to upload to this site but here are some screenshots from the video

I tried to get some shots of him eating but am not quick enough!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Update #2
Copper is now at 2.28 and copperband seems to be doing well! Below are some photos for reference. He is still eating well and is coming out of his cave a bit more often. Breathing is also normal! .

For some reason I can’t get my videos to upload to this site but here are some screenshots from the video

I tried to get some shots of him eating but am not quick enough!

Your clown obviously had velvet and velvet is rarely if ever confined to one fish and your copperband too is starting to show signs. Keep in that copper for a full 30 days

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update #2
Copper is now at 2.28 and copperband seems to be doing well! Below are some photos for reference. He is still eating well and is coming out of his cave a bit more often. Breathing is also normal! .

For some reason I can’t get my videos to upload to this site but here are some screenshots from the video

I tried to get some shots of him eating but am not quick enough!

That the fish is still eating, the lack of rapid breathing and the pinhead white spots indicates that this is marine ich, not velvet. Copper is still the best medication, but ich won’t kill the fish as fast as velvet would.

 

[mfraembs]

10/03 update - Copperband seems to be doing well! All of the ich has fallen off and he is swimming around much more and eating even better!!! He did develope this weird white node just below his right gill???

Is it some sort of bacterial infection? I am thinking it was from a wound left behind from an ich spore that fell off???

I am planning to just let it be and after the copper treatment he will go into a different tank with general cure with medicated food (kanaplex/focus)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

10/03 update - Copperband seems to be doing well! All of the ich has fallen off and he is swimming around much more and eating even better!!! He did develope this weird white node just below his right gill???

Is it some sort of bacterial infection? I am thinking it was from a wound left behind from an ich spore that fell off???

I am planning to just let it be and after the copper treatment he will go into a different tank with general cure with medicated food (kanaplex/focus)

I’m not sure what that is, but it isn’t likely to be serious.

Please do not mix kanaplex with focus. Unless you calculate the dose correctly it won’t work. Too low and it won’t be effective, but kanaplex is toxic at a high dose, so can outright kill fish in that case.

Do you have an accurate gram scale? If so, I have a file here on how to properly dose medicated foods:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

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