How to Quarantine

[Humblefish]

@VJV The biggest problem with hypo is resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist. Quote below taken from this source: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

More recently, studies have demonstrated different salinity tolerances among strains of Cryptocaryon. Yambot (2003) described one Taiwanese outbreak occurring in sea bream Sparus sarba at a salinity of 5 g/L, and another outbreak in sea perch Lates calcarifer occurring at a salinity of 10 g/L. These two strains were successfully propagated in the laboratory at 7 and 10 g/L, respectively, and are well below previously documented preferred salinities.

However, on the plus side research has showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented. So, no need to treat with Prazipro beforehand if doing hypo.

 

[VJV]

Thanks! But do you think that a sensitive fish such as a surgeon could go through all the stress of quarantine carrying ich or velvet with neither showing up?

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks! But do you think that a sensitive fish such as a surgeon could go through all the stress of quarantine carrying ich or velvet with neither showing up?

Velvet - no. That will show up within one month or less. At the very least, you'll notice behavioral symptoms and the fish will die shortly thereafter.

However, ich is a lot more tricky. The only surgeon I would say with confidence you will most certainly see white dots on are Acanthurus genus. With all other tangs it may stay confined to the gills.

 

[VJV]

So the risk would be that Ich would slip by undetected over the duration of the hypo and it would be one of those rare strains that are not killed in hypo. How likely do you believe this would be? Would you say this has a higher or similar probability of having a Tomont outlast the typical 30 days of copper treatment?

 

[Humblefish]

So the risk would be that Ich would slip by undetected over the duration of the hypo and it would be one of those rare strains that are not killed in hypo. How likely do you believe this would be? Would you say this has a higher or similar probability of having a Tomont outlast the typical 30 days of copper treatment?

Well, I know of at least 3 studies which found strains of ich capable of outlasting 30 days of copper exposure. The 72 day variant (Colorni and Burgess 1997) is one and you'll see two other studies below if you do the math:



The two strains discovered by Yambot (2003) are the only proven hypo resistant ones. However, one must consider that the 3 studies where the life cycle exceeded 30 days would also be threat if doing hypo for only 30 days. So, that's a -3 for copper but a -5 for hypo.

 

[VJV]

[emoji4] not necessarily. Given hypo is not detrimental to the fish health I could run it for the full 76 days (probably would do 6 weeks). Also, the fact that this is gentler on the animal would serve as a plus for hypo.

I intend to continue to use copper in all fish bar acanthurus. I have killed two beautiful PBTs and one Powder Brown already with cupramine.

In your experience how susceptible are Hippo tangs and one spot rabbit fish to copper (cupramine)? I have these incoming and am undecided on the treatment (cupramine or hypo salinity).

Also, can you drop them straight into hypo? The reason I ask is because I have read several times that fish tolerate sudden drops in salinity quite well, but are a lot more sensitive to increases in salinity. Also dropping them straight into hypo would prevent Tomonts from forming so QT time could be shortened considerably.

 

[Humblefish]

[emoji4] not necessarily. Given hypo is not detrimental to the fish health I could run it for the full 76 days (probably would do 6 weeks). Also, the fact that this is gentler on the animal would serve as a plus for hypo.

Not all fish handle hypo well. Especially for long durations. Ironically, hypo & copper share some of the same side effects.

In your experience how susceptible are Hippo tangs and one spot rabbit fish to copper (cupramine)? I have these incoming and am undecided on the treatment (cupramine or hypo salinity).

I've never had a problem using copper on either. However, I've only use chelated copper on both of those species.

Also, can you drop them straight into hypo? The reason I ask is because I have read several times that fish tolerate sudden drops in salinity quite well, but are a lot more sensitive to increases in salinity.

I would take 48 hrs to drop them down into full hypo conditions. More info here on hyposalinity: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.247596/

 

[VJV]

Thanks![emoji106]

 

[VJV]

Have you read this article from Advanced Aquarist? It not only states that hypo is non toxic to fish but it actually has a number of other benefits health wise, as it makes it much easier for the fish to osmoregulate.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish

"yposalinity has several advantages over the use of copper or harsh chemical for treating Cryptocaryonosis in fish. Hyposalinity is a safe and effective alternative that is non-toxic and does not cause stress to the fish when used correctly. Copper suppresses immune function and it is toxic to fish. It is also an unstable substance in the aquarium so the level should be tested twice a day. Some antibiotics are not safe to use in conjunction with copper. Carbon and chemical filtration pads cannot be used to maintain the water quality when using copper. There is also the problem of copper being difficult to remove from the aquarium after treatment is finished."

 

[wowkingjames]

Thanks for the info

 

[VJV]

Thanks [emoji4]. But before running and hypo your fish check with Mr Humblefish! He is the expert. I am just a newbie trying to get as much info as I can [emoji1].

 

[Humblefish]

I'm not really an expert when it comes to hypo, as I prefer other QT methods.

However, I know many who could be considered experts on hypo and tolerance to it varies greatly from fish to fish. It's more of an individual thing than a species thing. One PBT can do great in it, another just does OK, while yet another will inexplicably waste away & die in hypo.

 

[VJV]

@Humblefish. Hi, just came across a product that is meant to treat ich, velvet and others and it contains Formaldehyde, Malachite Green and Copper Sulfate. I will snap a picture of the bottle later this week but do you think this could be effective against Ich/Velvet? Also, would you say this combo would be gentler on the fish than straight copper?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish. Hi, just came across a product that is meant to treat ich, velvet and others and it contains Formaldehyde, Malachite Green and Copper Sulfate. I will snap a picture of the bottle later this week but do you think this could be effective against Ich/Velvet? Also, would you say this combo would be gentler on the fish than straight copper?

Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen, and I thought it had been banned in Europe for animal products. I consider it to be a "last resort" chemical to use on fish with velvet, brook and prazi/metro resistant strains of worms. I wouldn't expose fish to it prophylactically.

 

[VJV]

Thanks!

 

[Isaac Alves]

What are thoughts on using
"Mardel Quick Cure" as part of a preventative quarantine regime?

 

[Humblefish]

What are thoughts on using
"Mardel Quick Cure" as part of a preventative quarantine regime?

Another formaldehyde based product. I believe it also contains Malachite Green. More info on both chemicals below.

Formalin: Treats Brooklynella and provides temporary relief for Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium). Also may be used as temporary relief, or even as an alternative treatment, for worms such as flukes and black ich.

How To Treat - Formalin is very interesting because its potential is not fully known. It is best administered in a bath solution for 30-45 minutes, following the dosage instructions on whatever bottle you use; or at 150 ppm if using "100% formalin" (ex. Formalin-MS). The bath should be done in a large glass bowl or container, and temperature should match the tank the fish is coming from. A bucket is not advised as plastic may absorb some of the medication and then leach it back out during future use. It is imperative that you heavily aerate the bath solution for at least 30 minutes before and also during treatment to compensate for oxygen depletion. The fish should be placed in a premixed bath solution. DO NOT add more formalin after the fish is already in the bath.

For Brooklynella, multiple baths may be required (so long as symptoms persist), but it’s important to give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths. Formalin has also been used as alternative treatment for external worms such as flukes and black ich. However, at least 2 baths are required (7 days apart) for the same reason described when using Prazipro. For all of the above, post treatment, the fish should not be returned to the same tank/water he came from to prevent reinfection.

You can dose formalin directly in a quarantine tank, but this can be risky due to the harshness of formalin and how quickly it can deplete the water of oxygen. Providing additional gas exchange to the QT is a must! A fish being treated must be monitored closely and should be removed if showing signs of distress - this applies when treating in QT or in the bath solution.

Pros - Treats or provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases. In some cases, formalin can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Formalin contains formaldehyde, a known carcinogen. Therefore, precautions must be taken when using it. Preventing your skin from coming in contact with it by wearing water proof gloves and not breathing in any fumes by wearing a face mask is highly recommended. Formalin also can be harsh on the fish and will quickly deplete oxygen from the water. In some areas, the purchase of formalin is prohibited.

Malachite Green/Methylene Blue: Treats ammonia burn, cuts, injuries.

How To Treat - Comes in both liquid and powder form, sometimes mixed in with another medication(s). So, follow the directions on the label. Best used as a 30 minute bath solution, but you also can treat with it in a quarantine tank. Aerate heavily. If you are using it in a bath solution, then it is also a good idea to treat the fish with nitrofurazone (active ingredient found in Furan-2 and Nitrofuracin Green Powder) once he is returned to the quarantine tank. Nitrofurazone is great for treating open wounds or sores.

Pros - Highly effective.

Cons/Side Effects - Depletes oxygen from the water. Malachite Green is considered “harsher” on fish than Methylene Blue.

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

Could use help again. I'm really having terrible luck with qt program. These fish have been through prazipro, full furan2, CP (about 10+ days now) and been feeding them metro soaked rods for about 5 days. They all seemed to be okay the last 8 days and was looking forward to putting them into dt when things changed. No new fish or water added since start. This anthias was not eating well but nibbling. He quit eating a couple days ago and got a strange scale issue. He looks super thin so I figured he was wasting away and it had to do with that. He's been in hospital tank 3 days and I thought he'd be dead by now. Won't eat at all and just sits there. Also, this chromis just developed a stringy white thing on each side of his tail and stopped eating. Not sure what this is either. There's also one more anthias that was eating very well but now is hiding. I see nothing wrong with him visibly. I did carbon for 24 hours before going to the CP and like I said they did good last 8 days of CP. water is fairly cloudy but 2 ammonia badges show fine. Suggestions?

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

Update. Found dead resplendent anthias hidden in some pvc pipe that was pretty decomposed. I thought I was short a fish but lost so many I got confused and figured I forgot. Searched the tank even but he must have been wedged in there. Did 50% wc and adding CP to make up the difference. Chromis now barely swimming. Will perish in the next couple hours I'm sure. Moved him to hospital tank with remaining resplendent anthias that won't swim around or eat.
Started with 12 small fish, down to 4 most likely by the end of this.
Tank was cycled 1 gallon bio balls in it so really think it was disease and not ammonia. Also have 2 badges (1 very fresh).

 

[Humblefish]

@Outdrsyguy1 If you found an anthias pretty decomposed, there had to be ammonia from that. How long do you estimate he was dead before you found the body? What size QT is this and what bio-filter are you using?