Hot Take? Should new reefers be 'formally educated' before buying livestock?

[NoLarvatusplease]

Many years ago...the 70's to be exact I was deeply involved in Marine Aquariums.Fish only with bleached...yes bleached white coral dead as dead can be in our aquariums.In addition to that no one thought live coral was possible and flourescent lights were the only thing available.I worked at a pet store that had many marine tanks.When I sold someone a setup I always gave them books to read and magazines to read about their setup
This is not a fly by the seat of your pants hobby.Nowadays its vastly more complex and expensive which weeds out many would be aquarists.Imagine if reef keeping were as simple as tying your dog up in the backyard to guard your home..ugh.My hope is that the hobby evolves to sell only captive bred fish and removing fish from reefs becomes antiquated like bleaching coral.I think a class held at fish stores for people new to the hobby would do no harm amd do some good.Anyone who is'nt sufficiently curious about biology and chemistry really ought to think twice about this hobby.Its way more fun to know everything you can about fish and coral than live in the dark!

 

[Reefer Matt]

Honestly? I treat every life form I come across with deference. Could be a cat. Could be an ant. I don't kill any of them just for the sake of killing it. And I wouldn't collect anything live without some proper knowledge base.

Which brings me to the question at hand. Yes, yes, yes. Perhaps not formal, university training, but definitely a well defined knowledge base is required. Too many people get into this hobby without knowing Jack. I was one of those at one point, so I have absolutely no issue calling people out on it (including myself). I just got lucky the last time as I KNEW I'd be successful. This time around, I'm studying for at least a year prior to starting again. And it's tough, cause I want a tank NOW! There. That's my humble opinion.

I 100% agree with you, but I don’t see the industry policing itself. Government oversight will probably ban the trade rather than regulating it, unless they find a way to tax everything. It’d be nice if everyone would research first, but not everyone has the discipline and restraint to do it every time. The culture is mostly about instant gratification.

 

[PharmrJohn]

I 100% agree with you, but I don’t see the industry policing itself. Government oversight will probably ban the trade rather than regulating it, unless they find a way to tax everything. It’d be nice if everyone would research first, but not everyone has the discipline and restraint to do it every time. The culture is mostly about instant gratification.

Ya got that right. Gotta throw something out there. I'm proud of my daughter. At 17 years old she decided on ferrets. I was OK with it. I just told her to read up on it (really a flippant statement, but I wanted to see what she would do). This kid took it to the next level. Really the next 5 levels. In a few months she knew everything. And I mean EVERYTHING on the issue. She had a goal and a plan with so much information on board it was just incredible. She did what I DIDN'T do at the age of 43 when I got into SW fish. She was wiser at 26 years my junior. And she did it on her own. But sadly, COVID hit when she was ready and there were no ferrets to be found anywhere. Maybe one here and there, but I guess you always get them in pairs. So she bowed out. So I guess my point is if a teenager can figure this out the myriad of adults out there can do the same......

 

[zoomonster]

Such things are a person's responsibility, and we certainly don't need more nanny state regulations. Actually, surprised some certain states don't require a license to keep salt aquaria. Even here in FL the aquaculture license (with oversight) required to legally sell anything from your tank is total BS designed to protect industry interests. Always better when gov keeps it nose out.

 

[CyberNinjaZ]

Considering the cost that would likely be involved, the man power that would need to be put forth to enforce such a requirement, and the fact it would have to be a law (which we can't get our "representatives" to agree on even basic things), I can't see this ever happening.

Should it?
Maybe, but unless there is severe harm and damage being committed, I don't see how it could even be on the table to begin with.

You aren't required to take classes to have a dog, cat, bird, reptile, and so forth, so ‍

 

[DangerDave]

Absolutely not, at lease where I live we're free to do what we want. Should someone coming into the reefing hobby spend time and energy learning anything they could before they start up a reef, absolutely yes.

 

[forestsofkelp]

The only way it would work is if you had licensure that was adequate and “real”. If it’s only a barrier, it would harm the hobby as a business. If it’s a benefit (more involvement, higher success) it would benefit sales.

Unfortunately this would really raise the barrier to entry and make it very difficult to enforce. I think you’d have to have gradations so people could enter the hobby. It’d also put a lot of LFS out of business unless they switched to a “club” model eg pay a fee for education, access to equipment/QT tanks, etc

In a fantasy land, I think the best would be tiered and enforced. The tiers would also add a little “aspirational” component to it. Something like below

B class: small, easy fish and corals. No training
A class fish : more advanced fish
A class inverts: more advanced coral and nems
S class: most advanced fish and coral
Open: dealer/importer any livestock

It would really improve the hobby I think

 

[blstravler]

No, new reefers should not need to be formally educated. Flip it around and make those selling the animals responsible for educating their buyers on what they are selling. A license to sell exotic fish and coral could be more of a reality than putting it on the individual reefer. Though all of this is fantasy and would never happen.

 

[LoneStarReef]

No. It would kill the hobby. It would become over regulated and the barrier to entry would be way too high. Don’t get me wrong, education is crucial to being successful in this hobby but as soon as you impose and regulate education, the fun of the hobby is gone.

 

[tbaum101]

Totally agree. With all the information online there is no excuse not to be educated. I also feel a lot of people go looking for the answer they want to hear and ignore the general consensus from everyone else. I will admit I've been guilty of that myself in the past.

Like you I researched this hobby for months before getting started, even though I had been doing freshwater for years at that point. I must have watched every BRS video multiple times lol. If I see a fish at the LFS that intrigues me and I know nothing about it, I whip out my phone and educate myself. It only takes a couple minutes.

I follow your model as well..lol
I absorbed the BRS Series on as much as I could find. Made a Playlist and watched some again. I've also gone to YouTube University while in my LFS more than once.

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

I also feel LFS owners should be more ethical in the creatures they sell. I’m sick of seeing every week tanks with Tangs for sale that I feel shouldn’t be anything less than an 8x3x3 tank when fully grown - and where I live in the UK there is only a handful of reefkeepers that have any tanks of that size (electric costs have become prohibitive for most folks over here). And yes, I practice what I preach - the only two large fish in my 5x2x2 are a Yellow Tang and a CBB. And that’s the way it will stay!

 

[Dorsetsteve]

Personally. No. I find these kinds of suggestions problematic, they seem to stem from a perspective of elitism. I’m sure there are those who have good intentions but it smacks of gatekeeping. I think with most hobbies there’s a few phases, there’s the phase where you have to learn, the phase where you think you know and there’s the phase where you realise you still have lots to learn. I wonder how many of those who would support such action would actually fail the barrier to entry, now that would be interesting.

 

[UtahReefer]

This is a hobby with a steep learning curve. I don't think we ever stop learning. Way too many methods out there that seem like "just follow this and everything will be great". There's a lot to confuse new reefers. Best advice.... Don't do it unless you are prepared to make a long term commitment, both time wise and financially. Be patient, don't make changes all the time and don't believe there are any magic solutions. Slow and steady wins this race. Consistency is the rule of the day.

 

[Hershingen Mosiken]

Arguably, there are stores that already do this to an extent. Not formally, but I've seen shop owners refuse to sell an animal to a buyer that during a brief conversation, demonstrates a clear lack of understanding on the animal's care.

 

[NickNH]

I ask that myself about all pets. Seeing people with a dogs outside in the elements. People getting cats and leaving them outside. Getting a bird just to leave it in a cage and do nothing with it. Should people at least do research before getting into it? Yes. Some just see it and say I want. Not understanding it is a lot of work. Not just start it and look at it. And I mean all pets, not just the fish world.

My dog refuses to come inside when it rains or snows, and given that it weighs about as much as I do(235lb st bernard, 245lb me) it gets to.

 

[GARRIGA]

Rather new parents were educated before having that first date

 

[TBSB2019]

My dog refuses to come inside when it rains or snows, and given that it weighs about as much as I do(235lb st bernard, 245lb me) it gets to.

I get that. Our German Shepherds love it when we go to our cabin in NC because it's much cooler up there and our youngest of the 3 loves to do doughnuts in the mud. St Bernards are built for the cold. Where we live full time it gets in the upper 90s to lower 100s. No way we would let them stay out in that.

 

[NickNH]

I get that. Our German Shepherds love it when we go to our cabin in NC because it's much cooler up there and our youngest of the 3 loves to do doughnuts in the mud. St Bernards are built for the cold. Where we live full time it gets in the upper 90s to lower 100s. No way we would let them stay out in that.

Oh boy, it is hot down south. I live in Pennsylvania and the max summer temp is in the low 90's, when it gets like that the big boy stays inside and gets walked at night.

 

[TBSB2019]

Oh boy, it is hot down south. I live in Pennsylvania and the max summer temp is in the low 90's, when it gets like that the big boy stays inside and gets walked at night.

If we lived in our NC place full time (maybe when I retire) our pups would stay outside (by their choice haha) as much as possible. One weighs 93, one 90, and the "small" one is 75 lbs. Love it up there but love to be in and on the ocean too.

 

[goosemans]

If I was a fish store I’d have more of an informal vetting process for fish who grow bigger than 6”.. too often I hear customers at my LFS store demanding their money back from the owner insisting he sold them a sick fish. No he didn’t… you bought a “dory” and stuck it in a 20 gal box, got ich from stress, and died.