Hawaii Yellow tang

[livinlifeinBKK]

There are hundreds of fish that used to be in this hobby that cannot be collected anywhere else due to them being Hawaiian endemic. I don’t really understand what you mean by the yellows being the only one.

I really don't think a lot of people know a whole lot more about the Hawaii ban than "yellow Tang expensive"...the why's, the species affected, and many other things relating to the ban are beyond the extent of their thinking (not calling them dumb or anything, just that I doubt many people know a whole lot about it which is why pretty much the only thing you hear people discuss is the price hike of yellow tangs)

 

[Steve and his Animals]

It’s just another plain old yellow fish… the Forcipiger butterflies do the same thing, add elegance but minus the attitude. And yes Yellow Tangs are aggressive, they are nasty as adults.
Yellow Coris Wrasses are another Yellow Fish that take out Aggressive tendencies, add pest hunting and remain much smaller.
The reality is, Yellow Tangs just aren’t worth it as there are 100s of different yellow fish out there that do the same job as a yellow. Foxfaces are a good one and they stay the same size as an adult yellow can get.
Another small tang with beautiful colours are any from the genus Ctenochaetus. And before you say anything about this, they really are colourful however in the LFS they’ll be washed out and you also won’t see how much their pattern actually changes in the day.


I will say though, I’ve never really found yellows to be special (As I said, they’re just a hyperactive, aggressive, yellow fish). And find them to be more than overrated in the hobby.
Money is often a factor due to not everyone can go a spend millions on their tanks, I’m sure if we could we’d all be hunting the true dream things we’d want. But ignoring the price just isn’t happening all the time - I try to maximise myself to only 3-4 triple digit fish and often try to remain close to the 100-300 marks. I honestly wouldn’t waste one of the 3 to being a yellow tang purely because there is bound to be another stunning beauty that is yellow for that same price.


Also, very few people think of their fish as disposable. The people that do think this are mainly the big YouTubers that are just in this hobby for the views and nothing else (they often then hide the fact a fish has died and just never mention it).

I didn't say yellow tangs weren't aggressive, all tangs are, I just said they aren't TOTAL jerks. In the grand scheme of tangs, they are one of the nicer ones even among their genus haha. I know the Ctenochaetus species stay smaller, but the average keeper sees a brown fish with some varying flare based on the species. I work with a lot of them, I know they can be really beautiful fish, but most people that keep fish want something pretty now.

I never said there aren't other yellow fish available. I have a Forcipiger flavissimus in my reef and they're one of my favorite species. All I said was yellow tangs are worth more than the $50-80 price tag everyone wants them to go back to just because they were a dime-a-dozen back in the day. I don't even like tangs as a group, but I can appreciate the value a fish like that can and should have. Especially if we're taking them from the ocean. In the near future, ideally, fish that are bred in captivity should end up cheaper than their wild counterparts, like most species of clowns nowadays. I know money is a factor, that's exactly what I said, and part of that factor includes the mental investment in a more expensive fish than a cheaper one.

And working at a fish store, many, many more people find their fish disposable than you'd think. All the parents trying to throw fish in bowls or vases for their toddlers to oggle at, all the middle-aged guys that will spend hundreds to thousands on nice fish for their reef/fowlr tank but won't put in any money for good filtration or do water changes any time this decade and then wonder why they have to keep coming back for new ones, all the people that say to me (despite my warnings that it might not do well in their tank) "if it dies it dies," all the people that cram fish into way too small of a tank, and all the people that will do the bare minimum to feed the fish the right foods or treat for diseases. I could go on forever, but I assume you get my point. The average person sees fish as a decoration, not an animal. It's a sad truth but it's one I deal with daily.

Also, foxface definitely get larger than yellow tangs. They also generally don't really have the personality of tangs; it takes them forever to get used to people in most cases. The lack of aggression is nice though. It's not that they aren't great fish in their own ways, but the popularity discrepancy is obvious to me.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Wish someone would do some comparison pictures. If you have more pictures can you please post

Comparison pictures of what? Wild baby yellows? I never took any underwater pictures when I lived there, so you can take my word on that if you want to. They weren't all pale, but many of them were much less colorful than the adults.

 

[areefer01]

If you consider the complete lack of Hawaiian fish available to hobbyists as suffering, then yes.

I don't, no.

 

[i cant think]

I didn't say yellow tangs weren't aggressive, all tangs are, I just said they aren't TOTAL jerks. In the grand scheme of tangs, they are one of the nicer ones even among their genus haha. I know the Ctenochaetus species stay smaller, but the average keeper sees a brown fish with some varying flare based on the species. I work with a lot of them, I know they can be really beautiful fish, but most people that keep fish want something pretty now.

I never said there aren't other yellow fish available. I have a Forcipiger flavissimus in my reef and they're one of my favorite species. All I said was yellow tangs are worth more than the $50-80 price tag everyone wants them to go back to just because they were a dime-a-dozen back in the day. I don't even like tangs as a group, but I can appreciate the value a fish like that can and should have. Especially if we're taking them from the ocean. In the near future, ideally, fish that are bred in captivity should end up cheaper than their wild counterparts, like most species of clowns nowadays. I know money is a factor, that's exactly what I said, and part of that factor includes the mental investment in a more expensive fish than a cheaper one.

And working at a fish store, many, many more people find their fish disposable than you'd think. All the parents trying to throw fish in bowls or vases for their toddlers to oggle at, all the middle-aged guys that will spend hundreds to thousands on nice fish for their reef/fowlr tank but won't put in any money for good filtration or do water changes any time this decade and then wonder why they have to keep coming back for new ones, all the people that say to me (despite my warnings that it might not do well in their tank) "if it dies it dies," all the people that cram fish into way too small of a tank, and all the people that will do the bare minimum to feed the fish the right foods or treat for diseases. I could go on forever, but I assume you get my point. The average person sees fish as a decoration, not an animal. It's a sad truth but it's one I deal with daily.

Also, foxface definitely get larger than yellow tangs. They also generally don't really have the personality of tangs; it takes them forever to get used to people in most cases. The lack of aggression is nice though. It's not that they aren't great fish in their own ways, but the popularity discrepancy is obvious to me.

It’s interesting how I also worked in an LFS (I’m trying to get back into it in the next few years) and honestly my experience was very different - yes we had 1-2 people that would come in without much knowledge and not really caring about the fish but the majority of them came from an LFS that gave them bad advice and they would seek out the correct advice. During 2019-21 was the time I was working in the LFS so yes it has been almost a year since I have been working in an LFS.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

As someone who values a fish based on things that aren't just money, I'm of the opinion that yellow tangs were always worth a lot. What other tangs stay (relatively, for a tang) small, have amazing color, and aren't total ******s? Just because you could whip them out of the ocean like hotcakes, doesn't mean they should be worth squat. The only thing making a fish cheap does is lower how much the average person cares about said fish. Just think about how many people see fish like green chromis as disposable. Wouldn't you make more of an effort to keep your $160 tang healthy than the $50 dollar one? It's still an animal at the end of the day, but the money does have a say in things (like it does in everything else in life).

Also, all the people saying CB yellows aren't colorful like the wild ones haven't seen wild babies. Living in Hawaii, you can see that some of the babies are white, just like the CB ones. Plus, it has everything to do with environment and feeding. Here's a pic I took of the Biota yellows in our store before they were sold. Bigger one was maybe 1.5" but they got plenty of mysis, pellets, and greens every day.

View attachment 2807079

I don't mean to rant, but the people complaining about the price of these fish aren't considering the value that these animals bring to our hobby on an enjoyment level.

I don't think simply raising the prices of fish in general would really do much but exclude more people from the hobby since it's already so expensive. I think it depends much more on the individual person...I agree everything has a fair price though and I wouldn't expect a yellow Tang to be particularly cheap per say. People who don't really care about the animals buy expensive and exotic pets all the time. The only reason I'd be in support of raising prices on all fish (and I know you didn't say anything about making all fish expensive but I've heard plenty of times that's the solution to getting buyers who take better care of the fish) is if it was to support the collectors in less developed countries who get paid very little for providing us with a luxury.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

If you are looking for Hawaii yellows tangs I have some good news. There has been a favorable court ruling for the reopening of wild fish harvesting in Hawaii. Although harvesting is still illegal the court recently ruled that the Board of Land and Natural Resources has enough information to make a decision on reopening harvesting. Prior to this there was a lengthy study that was being proposed by Earthjustice, which is an environmental activist organization. The need for the study has been rejected and I believe shortly the state will reopen its wild fish harvesting again. I would advise anyone looking for yellows to wait as the population of them has actually surged. Once harvesting begins prices should stabilize. I would caution against buying yellows that are being smuggled out as there are no legal channels in obtaining these fish. You can help by raising awareness about the lates news and hopefully we can bring back these beautiful fish into our aquariums.

Said it before. This is a US state w a sustainable and well regulated fishery.

 

[mwilk19]

Said it before. This is a US state w a sustainable and well regulated fishery.

Science and facts don't weigh into it. The people of Hawaii have been led to believe by people like Snorkel Bob that the aquarium trade is plundering the waters of Hawaii and decimating the fish populations. The people who live in Hawaii are putting a lot of pressure on the politicians to keep the ban in place. They will ultimately decide what happens.

 

[Jase4224]

100%... I'd love to see potters angels and flame wrasses reenter the hobby.

I really don't see why hobbyists need wild yellow tangs. Breeders will need new brood stock. Right now captive bred yellow tangs cost $165 usd. It's a lot of money, but it out HOPE is that wild ones come in at a little over a hundred...say $130....why not just shell out a little more and buy CB?

Fine with harvesting from a sustainable fishery when the fish aren't available from breeding programs, but I think the Hawaii shutdown is a prequel to other changes in other fisheries. Best to get the captive breeding programs going ASAP.

In Australia it’s illegal to import captive bred fish from overseas, but legal to import wild caught. Yellow tangs here are $700+ for second hand and $1000+ for new. No captive bred option here. I’m hoping Hawaii opens so we can have any at all that are affordable.

 

[areefer01]

In Australia it’s illegal to import captive bred fish from overseas, but legal to import wild caught. Yellow tangs here are $700+ for second hand and $1000+ for new. No captive bred option here. I’m hoping Hawaii opens so we can have any at all that are affordable.

But in Australia you have things readily available at a more affordable price than other parts of the world. It is a trade off. The US couldn't have a Cuban Basslet for the longest time. It is only now available due to captive breeding.

Reading through this thread it seems the main complaint is cost for fish with availability being a distant second. Which is why I posed the question earlier what harm as the Hawaii ban done to our hobby? Most hobbyist only see the grocery store side of it which is how much is the fish in the window. Not the path through the snakes body (collection to holding to retail) which we incur a high mortality rate to get that fish in retail sale and final destination. Then only to have it die due to no, or poor, QT or isolation practices (another debate).

Not to say no one has the right to argue the price of coral or fish but then again people are dropping a couple hundred dollars on a 1/4" frag or single head. A bit of a head scratcher to me.

Personally speaking I think this was a great wake up call for everyone. It helped guide a few captive breeding or raising priorities and woke up our hobby to say if we don't get our house in order on our own then someone will do it for us. And then we have no say.

So if the ban is lifted we should all hope that the hobby, industry, small and large business players, take heed and do the right thing. Because if a ban happens again there may be no lift and it may widen.

 

[rogersb]

I was in a store over the weekend that had a yellow for $200. They also had a kole. I don't like yellow tangs so I don't look for them, but when I saw the kole I asked the owner if they were a tank shut down. He told me no and that these fish are hard to get but not impossible.

 

[Chrisv.]

In Australia it’s illegal to import captive bred fish from overseas, but legal to import wild caught. Yellow tangs here are $700+ for second hand and $1000+ for new. No captive bred option here. I’m hoping Hawaii opens so we can have any at all that are affordable.

That's insane. How on earth do they justify that policy?

 

[Steve and his Animals]

It’s interesting how I also worked in an LFS (I’m trying to get back into it in the next few years) and honestly my experience was very different - yes we had 1-2 people that would come in without much knowledge and not really caring about the fish but the majority of them came from an LFS that gave them bad advice and they would seek out the correct advice. During 2019-21 was the time I was working in the LFS so yes it has been almost a year since I have been working in an LFS.

I'm sure the difference comes down to demographic. I also have plenty of customers that have been burned by or sent over by chain stores. Our store was started over 50 years ago, so we have people that have been shopping since they were kids, and the hobby is very different ethically than it was 50 years ago. We also just moved, so we have a whole host of customers who have never shopped at a real LFS before. Or maybe it's just my negative bias remembering the bad.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Has our hobby suffered at all due to the ban?

Yes in both price and certain species of wrasse, tangs and dwarf angels- Potters to be specific

 

[Steve and his Animals]

I don't think simply raising the prices of fish in general would really do much but exclude more people from the hobby since it's already so expensive. I think it depends much more on the individual person...I agree everything has a fair price though and I wouldn't expect a yellow Tang to be particularly cheap per say. People who don't really care about the animals buy expensive and exotic pets all the time. The only reason I'd be in support of raising prices on all fish (and I know you didn't say anything about making all fish expensive but I've heard plenty of times that's the solution to getting buyers who take better care of the fish) is if it was to support the collectors in less developed countries who get paid very little for providing us with a luxury.

I agree raising prices is a bandaid. The real fix is education, not only for the quality of care these animals will receive, but also for the excitement and interest more-educated people will have for their pets. For many people, a lot of them are stopped by high prices if they don't understand the justification for them.

 

[G Santana]

Great. They're up to $599 which is beyond insane...

Sounds like a great deal lol
In all seriousness, I had no idea that the ban was coming, I always planned on getting one as soon as I decided to start my tank back up. I literally bought mine a day or two before the ban went into effect for $90 which I thought was robbery. The following week I went back to the LFS and was greeted by the owner who said I owed him money for the tang. We both laughed and talked about the ban.

 

[G Santana]

Yes in both price and certain species of wrasse, tangs and dwarf angels- Potters to be specific

I want a Potters angel SO BAD LOL

 

[vetteguy53081]

I want a Potters angel SO BAD LOL

Mine - Model citizen

 

[G Santana]

Mine - Model citizen

View attachment 2808236View attachment 2808237

Now you're showing off and hurting my feelings.
That is IMO the best looking angel period and that includes the Flame angel!!!
Beautiful fish!!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Now you're showing off and hurting my feelings.
That is IMO the best looking angel period and that includes the Flame angel!!!
Beautiful fish!!!

Mine is in with a flame