Hawaii Yellow tang

[livinlifeinBKK]

Flame angel or a flame angel x rusty angel hybrid wins every time in my book! Just my preference.

 

[G Santana]

Mine is in with a flame

That's what I want, I have a flame and I will eventually get a potters but because it will be at least two years since I added the flame I am scared what might happen.

 

[areefer01]

Yes in both price and certain species of wrasse, tangs and dwarf angels- Potters to be specific

What price exactly?
Certain fish are not available - noted.
Potters is rumored to have been captive bred/raised - we are waiting.

Personal opinion but neither price nor species availability has hurt our hobby. It is more of an inconvenience but I think we both may disagree.

 

[Fishy888]

Lol the write up sure pose the "earthjustice" in a bad light

It's because, like PETA they are eco-terrorists. These groups want population control. In fact there are groups of people who want to give the world back to the animals and see us go extinct instead. Maybe I sound like a paranoid person but until I met such a person once I didn't even know they existed. Fast forward almost 25 years and people just like him hold prominent positions in leadership.

I agree we need to be better stewards than we are of our natural resources but these bans lead us down a slippery slope. Today it's yellow and black tangs. Tomorrow it's copepods. Then it's aquariums etc. BTW at that point we're only 10 feet down from the tippy top. After all it might not be fun but we can survive without fish tanks. We cannot survive what they want to do after that.

Next we ban fishing. Ok there are other kinds of meat, like cow... Oh yeah, cow farts. Ok so we'll still have chicken and tofu right? Oh yeah, they are animals. PETA and all. And the whole carbon thing. What when they ban plants too. Don't think they would? Did you think 20 years ago that they would ban yellow tangs?

Again we need sustainable harvesting and our hobby will be far better off with captive breeding where possible but these groups don't want sustainable harvesting. They want no harvesting.

I'm not usually one to rant and I don't want it to sound like a rant. Any group that steals people's pets, murders them, then leaves a fruit basket with a sympathy card like they really care about the person whose dog they just killed really has nothing positive to contribute.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Has our hobby suffered at all due to the ban?

This question kind of screwed me up at first.

My initial reaction was " of course it has had a negative impact".

There is the.....

And the....

...Other than a Slight loss of opportunity which incurs opportunity cost to those who were frequently transacting in the species only collected in Hawaii, I cannot find reason to Justify my initial thought, and it has evolved because of your question.

This ban was and I suppose still is an Inconvenience at most.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

It's because, like PETA they are eco-terrorists. These groups want population control. In fact there are groups of people who want to give the world back to the animals and see us go extinct instead. Maybe I sound like a paranoid person but until I met such a person once I didn't even know they existed. Fast forward almost 25 years and people just like him hold prominent positions in leadership.

I agree we need to be better stewards than we are of our natural resources but these bans lead us down a slippery slope. Today it's yellow and black tangs. Tomorrow it's copepods. Then it's aquariums etc. BTW at that point we're only 10 feet down from the tippy top. After all it might not be fun but we can survive without fish tanks. We cannot survive what they want to do after that.

Next we ban fishing. Ok there are other kinds of meat, like cow... Oh yeah, cow farts. Ok so we'll still have chicken and tofu right? Oh yeah, they are animals. PETA and all. And the whole carbon thing. What when they ban plants too. Don't think they would? Did you think 20 years ago that they would ban yellow tangs?

Again we need sustainable harvesting and our hobby will be far better off with captive breeding where possible but these groups don't want sustainable harvesting. They want no harvesting.

I'm not usually one to rant and I don't want it to sound like a rant. Any group that steals people's pets, murders them, then leaves a fruit basket with a sympathy card like they really care about the person whose dog they just killed really has nothing positive to contribute.

I agree with pretty much everything you said but comparing banning mass fishing of exotic fish on an island isn't warranted as long as it's sustainable but it does make a lot more sense than the bans you think could happen after that because after all these are fragile ecosystems. And some bans are just, useful, and do protect wildlife which would otherwise be put into jeopardy. That's why we have CITES.

 

[Fishy888]

I believe my exact word were “I’d like to think the majority of us do try” the former and latter part was honestly added to aid the more sensitive to accepting the reality that the majority of people in this hobby don’t. We really have come a long way on coral propagation, but my post was about fish. Our environmental impact on coral reefs is a discussion for another day.

At the end of the day we harvest them from their natural environment and house them in glass boxes with not a better argument than “they’ll live longer in my house”.

We “cannot as an entire hobby” because as many as there are of you and I who care about our ecosystem, there are 10x hobbyist who will kill 10x Achilles tangs, refuse to quarantine, all to find one that beats the odds, lives, and further fuel more irresponsibility by saying “we’ll I didn’t quarantine and………….”. Or, the people who fish for a bag limit, instead of what they consume.

Im by no means an activist. Most of my fish are wild caught and I’m an avid outdoorsman. Fishing is my favorite hobby by far. My post was simply made for those who consider these bans “completely in-just” without considering the above mentality. It won’t change so the only alternative is a temporary ban to replenish the ecosystems and fisheries.

Case and final point: You have people in this very thread talking about color superiority of wild caught yellow tangs, when captive bred are widely available.

^^^This! There needs to be protection for the reefs of the world. The commercial fishing industry (food) does more damage to the reefs than we hobbiests do; HOWEVER!!! We must learn to police ourselves. Too many of us buy fish and other wild caught flora and fauna without researching them first and they quickly die. Most of the time 5 or 10 die before we even get the one survivor. There are other ways we can do better. We need to have a net positive effect on the reefs instead. We're starting to. We as reefers have made excellent progress in captive breeding. We have learned how to keep things alive that once were considered unobtanium. Let's just not go to extremes with our care of the reefs.

 

[Fishy888]

I agree with pretty much everything you said but comparing banning mass fishing of exotic fish on an island isn't warranted as long as it's sustainable but it does make a lot more sense than the bans you think could happen after that because after all these are fragile ecosystems. And some bans are just, useful, and do protect wildlife which would otherwise be put into jeopardy. That's why we have CITES.

That's why I said I might just be paranoid . I just want to see us all find ways to conserve our reefs, our rainforests, etc without bans that are too excessive but I am grateful we have CITES also. I agree with you.

 

[areefer01]

This question kind of screwed me up at first.

My initial reaction was " of course it has had a negative impact".

There is the.....

And the....

...Other than a Slight loss of opportunity which incurs opportunity cost to those who were frequently transacting in the species only collected in Hawaii, I cannot find reason to Justify my initial thought, and it has evolved because of your question.

This ban was and I suppose still is an Inconvenience at most.

Sorry - was not trying to make it a trick question. Honest.

I hear inconvenience, to some degree loss of some species, price I do not agree but also know this is a bit touchy. I would probably say I understand the price side of it but with hobbyists not blinking an eye at expensive frags or some gear I tend to ignore that one. Also hobbies are considered residual income. Anyway another topic for another day.

I tend to see good in it.

• The hobby is still open
• It brought to our attention what an imposed ban could do
• Tells us we should get our house in order before someone does it for us
• Helped promote captive breeding and raised fish
• Helped prioritize captive bred / raised fish (yellow tang for one example)
• Helped prioritize captive bred / raised species that may have otherwise been lower on list

Just my take, my opinion, and could very well be in left field.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

That's why I said I might just be paranoid . I just want to see us all find ways to conserve our reefs, our rainforests, etc without bans that are too excessive but I am grateful we have CITES also. I agree with you.

I mean I'm not saying you're just being paranoid because there are people like that and they're finding their way into government office now so you do have some valid concerns I just don't think this particular ban was completely insane although it may have been unnecessary

 

[Fishy888]

No it wasn't insane at all. My post was intended to convey that the earthjustice group doesn't necessarily, at least in my opinion, merely want to protect the reefs. The post I replied to seemed to convey that anyone who thinks groups like EJ could have nefarious intentions is a lunatic. Then again I might well have taken that post the wrong way.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What price exactly?
Certain fish are not available - noted.
Potters is rumored to have been captive bred/raised - we are waiting.

Personal opinion but neither price nor species availability has hurt our hobby. It is more of an inconvenience but I think we both may disagree.

elevated prices. I have 6 yellow tangs that were $39.99 - $49.99 and now $399 - $499.00

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

elevated prices. I have 6 yellow tangs that were $39.99 - $49.99 and now $399 - $499.00

So you've actually benefitted from the ban because you now own 6 very valuable and sought after fish

 

[vetteguy53081]

So you've actually benefitted from the ban because you now own 6 very valuable and sought after fish

As many have stated- most definitely. My yellows are 5-6 years old

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

After participating in this thread from the beginning I'm kinda starting to come around to @areefer01 view that it's been and still is more of an inconvenience than anything else for most people since pretty much the only fish they seem to really care about are yellow tangs. If owning a yellow Tang is really such an obstacle on your path to happiness then I'd say $500 is worth it for your happiness. Happiness costs a LOT more than a $500 purchase for most people. (This will probably come off a harsh sounding but if it really means as much to people as they make it sound then I think it's pretty accurate.) For those that have other reasons to oppose the ban besides the cost of a yellow Tang , I understand their point of view.

 

[areefer01]

elevated prices. I have 6 yellow tangs that were $39.99 - $49.99 and now $399 - $499.00

Everything has gone up. Inflation is at an all time high. Covid. Supply chain. List goes on. We both know this. We both also know that we can buy captive bred, raised, Yellow Tangs for $160 give or take a few dollars. Buy direct and remove risk from supply chain. Know rough age of fish. Known eating. List goes on.

I used to be able to buy Purple Tangs for 20 bucks but this dates back to 1999...

Edit: I read earlier that some regions cannot import captive bred/raised - so my comment about $160 may not be applicable. Just trying to see both sides is what I'm saying - I do hear.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Sorry - was not trying to make it a trick question. Honest.

Don't apologize. Your comment was deep enough to make me critically examine it and it changed my own view on the answer. I started with an emotional answer but facts didn't align. So it made me change my mind.

 

[KevinC]

It's because, like PETA they are eco-terrorists. These groups want population control. In fact there are groups of people who want to give the world back to the animals and see us go extinct instead. Maybe I sound like a paranoid person but until I met such a person once I didn't even know they existed. Fast forward almost 25 years and people just like him hold prominent positions in leadership.

I agree we need to be better stewards than we are of our natural resources but these bans lead us down a slippery slope. Today it's yellow and black tangs. Tomorrow it's copepods. Then it's aquariums etc. BTW at that point we're only 10 feet down from the tippy top. After all it might not be fun but we can survive without fish tanks. We cannot survive what they want to do after that.

Next we ban fishing. Ok there are other kinds of meat, like cow... Oh yeah, cow farts. Ok so we'll still have chicken and tofu right? Oh yeah, they are animals. PETA and all. And the whole carbon thing. What when they ban plants too. Don't think they would? Did you think 20 years ago that they would ban yellow tangs?

Again we need sustainable harvesting and our hobby will be far better off with captive breeding where possible but these groups don't want sustainable harvesting. They want no harvesting.

I'm not usually one to rant and I don't want it to sound like a rant. Any group that steals people's pets, murders them, then leaves a fruit basket with a sympathy card like they really care about the person whose dog they just killed really has nothing positive to contribute.

haha I know, and I completely agree. I dont support "earthjustice" at all lol, buying captive bred should be a option. It still is, but that does not mean i have to pay $400 for a decent size captive bred yellow tang or $500 for a wild yellow tang. Glad there is finally some good news! what I hope for the future:

1) Wild yellow tang be sustainably collected, even if it means a higher price. (no more than 150)
2) Captive bred yellow tang better be cheaper or atleast a bigger size at the price point available now

 

[albano]

1) Wild yellow tang be sustainably collected, even if it means a higher price. (no more than 150)

I doubt that yellow tangs will be that cheap, if and when the ban is lifted… those Hawaiian divers, and wholesalers have years of little/no income to make up for, and they’ve already seen ‘what the market will bear’!

I’m also a little surprised at the number of people that can’t wait for the Potters angels to be available…it’s not an easy fish to keep alive! …. But I wouldn’t mind a blue Potters.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

those Hawaiian divers, and wholesalers have years of little/no income to make up for, and they’ve already seen ‘what the market will bear’!

You really think the highly trained professional divers in Hawaii been out of work this whole time? If we were talking about Indonesia or the Philippines I'd agree but we're talking America here...maybe they lost a little income but I highly doubt they've been suffering out there...