Hawaii Yellow tang

[firechild]

Wild caught fish intermingle with dozens or more different fish at every step of the supply chain. I’m just assuming that would lead to more disease.

Captive bred fish are held in high density for substantial amounts of their lives and fish that die from disease are kept in close contact with healthy fish for some amount of time before being removed.
Keep in mind that the legislation was written before captive breeding of marine ornamental fish was really a thing and when you look at stocking densities of many aquacultured food fish, they are simply a breeding ground for disease. Even farming fish in sea pens has shown very high rates of disease despite the fact that the pens are continually flushed with new sea water.

 

[Grallster]

Yea, new and untreated seawater instead of controlled, and I’m assuming, artificial and UV sterilized water. Bottom line is—captive breeding programs owe their ENTIRE livelihoods to keeping disease away. Do you really think a wholesaler cares if a few fish have some kind of disease coming in when they’re only holding it a few days?
I have no scientific data to back it up either but just makes sense to me.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Why is everyone focusing on yellow tangs? Plenty of better Hawaiian fish you can’t get (really took kole tangs for granted).

I would guess because the name of the Thread is Hawaii yellow tangs..

 

[firechild]

Bottom line is—captive breeding programs owe their ENTIRE livelihoods to keeping disease away.

As does any aquaculture facility but the reality is, they are fighting an uphill battle to keep diseases away. There is plenty of information out there on disease control in aquaculture systems and it might be more worthwhile to read some of it than to just say "well this makes sense to me"

 

[areefer01]

Scientific data, no. However I was simply giving a reason for the Australian government's decision. No doubt data exists, I just don't have any. It was certainly something that was discussed when I studied aquaculture at uni.

Aquaculture Fish Health

Farmed and wild fish, like all animals, are susceptible to bacterial, viral and parasitic infections. Healthy farmed fish are advantageous to both aquaculturists and natural resource managers. Fish farmers depend on high survival rates and marketing healthy fish in order to keep businesses...

www.fisheries.noaa.gov

Fully understand. It wasn't to challenge but rather raise awareness how one may perceive the post. I've not heard anything about these troubles with Bali or Biota but then again I'm not in that area of expertise.

Thank you for the information. I did read it as you took the time to link it. It was interesting but seemed more oriented towards farming to table or market vs ornamental. I don't know.

Edit: I should also say Bali and Biota one can buy direct which obviously removes supply chain or middle holding areas risk. Moving through the body of the snake capture/collect - holding - shipping - supplier - lfs is high risk and crazy town. I prefer buying direct which is probably why I only buy captive bred/raised at this stage of my displays life.

 

[firechild]

Fully understand. It wasn't to challenge but rather raise awareness how one may perceive the post. I've not heard anything about these troubles with Bali or Biota but then again I'm not in that area of expertise.

Thank you for the information. I did read it as you took the time to link it. It was interesting but seemed more oriented towards farming to table or market vs ornamental. I don't know.

Edit: I should also say Bali and Biota one can buy direct which obviously removes supply chain or middle holding areas risk. Moving through the body of the snake capture/collect - holding - shipping - supplier - lfs is high risk and crazy town. I prefer buying direct which is probably why I only buy captive bred/raised at this stage of my displays life.

You're absolutely right, much of the information on the subject comes from the seafood industry and some from the freshwater ornamental industry (which as far as I can tell has just as many, if not more issues with disease). The marine ornamental aquaculture industry is really still in its infancy, growing considerably over the last 20 years. I'm not sure that there is sufficient data nor has there been any push from the industry to trigger a change to any of the existing legislation.

 

[Wild1]

Only a number of permits will be issued and I would be shocked if prices came down drastically as I think with the past pricing, many wholesalers will dwell on the $500 range and boast they are true/rare hawaiian.

Sad but true!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

In the news yesterday:

The agency charged with protecting the state’s natural resources has approved an environmental impact statement supporting the harvesting of tropical fish for the aquarium industry despite ongoing litigation over the issue.

The full article is behind a paywall:

EIS for aquarium fish collecting approved - West Hawaii Today

The agency charged with protecting the state’s natural resources has approved an environmental impact statement supporting the harvesting of tropical fish for the aquarium industry despite ongoing litigation over the issue.

www.westhawaiitoday.com

But, my understanding is that a favorable Environment Impact Statement is a big step in opening the fishery back up.

Jay

 

[areefer01]

Yet with the ban our hobby continues.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

In the news yesterday:

The agency charged with protecting the state’s natural resources has approved an environmental impact statement supporting the harvesting of tropical fish for the aquarium industry despite ongoing litigation over the issue.

The full article is behind a paywall:

EIS for aquarium fish collecting approved - West Hawaii Today

The agency charged with protecting the state’s natural resources has approved an environmental impact statement supporting the harvesting of tropical fish for the aquarium industry despite ongoing litigation over the issue.

www.westhawaiitoday.com

But, my understanding is that a favorable Environment Impact Statement is a big step in opening the fishery back up.

Jay

As far as I'm aware they saw a bunch of data from a previous survey and shut it all down anyway. Not super hopeful if I'm being honest.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

As far as I'm aware they saw a bunch of data from a previous survey and shut it all down anyway. Not super hopeful if I'm being honest.

I thought they shut the fishery down until a EIS was performed? Now that it has been done, and is favorable, seems like they can start to reopen. It won’t be the same I bet, lots more restrictions and lower quotas.
Jay

 

[Sink_or_Swim]

Or you could just buy a captive bred one...

I recently did and I am 110% happy. Beautiful color too - just as bright as the wild caught. But much cheaper.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

I thought they shut the fishery down until a EIS was performed? Now that it has been done, and is favorable, seems like they can start to reopen. It won’t be the same I bet, lots more restrictions and lower quotas.
Jay

From my understanding, they had done a previous survey, with almost every species collected, and only found the Achilles tangs and Hawaiian groupers were on the decline (unsurprisingly, both are eaten by people), but shut it all down anyway. It was my understanding they were placating some zealous green-peace-esque groups. "Think of the children" kind of arguments, not much substantial. Maybe I misread things, but that's how it came off in some articles.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

From my understanding, they had done a previous survey, with almost every species collected, and only found the Achilles tangs and Hawaiian groupers were on the decline (unsurprisingly, both are eaten by people), but shut it all down anyway. It was my understanding they were placating some zealous green-peace-esque groups. "Think of the children" kind of arguments, not much substantial. Maybe I misread things, but that's how it came off in some articles.

I bit the bullet and jumped through some hoops to get through the paywall. Here is the text from the article:

The agency charged with protecting the state’s natural resources has approved an environmental impact statement supporting the harvesting of tropical fish for the aquarium industry despite ongoing litigation over the issue.

At the request of Suzanne Case, chairwoman of the Board of Land and Natural Resources, the state published the final EIS in the Oct. 8 issue of The Environmental Notice, stating that the EIS is deemed statutorily approved because the Land Board, as the approving agency, did not make a determination within the 30 days allotted by law.

The board last year deadlocked 3-3 on the revised EIS submitted by the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council. A representative could not be reached for comment by press-time Tuesday.

The revised EIS maintained the group’s preference for an alternative that cuts the number of commercial aquarium fishing permits issued in the West Hawaii Regional Fishery Management Area from 10 to seven and reduces the allowable commercial catch from 40 to eight species. The fishery management area spans the entire coastline of West Hawaii, from Upolu Point in North Kohala to Ka Lae (South Point) in Ka‘u.

Only yellow tang, kole, orangespine unicornfish, potter’s angelfish, brown surgeonfish, Thompson’s surgeonfish, black surgeonfish and bird wrasse would be allowed to be taken, under the plan.

Earthjustice subsequently filed a lawsuit challenging acceptance of the EIS on behalf of a coalition of conservation groups, Native Hawaiian fishermen and cultural practitioners.

It was filed on behalf of Willie Kaupiko, a former member of the West Hawaii Fisheries Council and a longtime konohiki (caretaker) of the fisheries fronting Milolii Village; Kaimi Kaupiko, a Native Hawaiian cultural practitioner and subsistence fisherman; Mike Nakachi, a cultural practitioner who leads scuba diving tours; For the Fishes, a nonprofit committed to reef ecosystems; the nonprofit Center for Biological Diversity and Kai Palaoa, an unincorporated association of Native Hawaiian religious and cultural practitioners that practice, preserve and perpetuate Hawaiian religious beliefs and practices associated with the ocean deity Kanaloa.

“Under this deeply flawed EIS, the aquarium trade could still degrade and further threaten Hawaii’s reefs and thus harm the people who depend upon them in so many ways,” Renee Umberger, founder and executive director of For the Fishes, said Monday.

An Oahu Circuit Court judge subsequently denied the group’s motion for summary judgment and on Sept. 12, issued a final judgment upholding the state agency’s approval. The plaintiffs subsequently filed an appeal.

“The fact that an appeal has been filed, by itself, does not affect the status of the (EIS), which acceptance has been upheld by the Circuit Court of the First Circuit,” Case said in her Oct. 3 letter to the Environmental Review Program in the state Office of Planning.

Umberger, however, maintains that just accepting the EIS doesn’t mean issuance of permits and fish collection can begin.

“The document published in The Environmental Notice of the ‘acceptance’ was procedural, but also perhaps premature, since Earthjustice filed our notice of appeal last month, as well,” Umberger said. “The denial of our (motion for summary judgment) did not lift the injunction which remains in place until further order from the court.”

 

[Steve and his Animals]

I bit the bullet and jumped through some hoops to get through the paywall. Here is the text from the article:

The agency charged with protecting the state’s natural resources has approved an environmental impact statement supporting the harvesting of tropical fish for the aquarium industry despite ongoing litigation over the issue.

At the request of Suzanne Case, chairwoman of the Board of Land and Natural Resources, the state published the final EIS in the Oct. 8 issue of The Environmental Notice, stating that the EIS is deemed statutorily approved because the Land Board, as the approving agency, did not make a determination within the 30 days allotted by law.

The board last year deadlocked 3-3 on the revised EIS submitted by the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council. A representative could not be reached for comment by press-time Tuesday.

The revised EIS maintained the group’s preference for an alternative that cuts the number of commercial aquarium fishing permits issued in the West Hawaii Regional Fishery Management Area from 10 to seven and reduces the allowable commercial catch from 40 to eight species. The fishery management area spans the entire coastline of West Hawaii, from Upolu Point in North Kohala to Ka Lae (South Point) in Ka‘u.

Only yellow tang, kole, orangespine unicornfish, potter’s angelfish, brown surgeonfish, Thompson’s surgeonfish, black surgeonfish and bird wrasse would be allowed to be taken, under the plan.

Earthjustice subsequently filed a lawsuit challenging acceptance of the EIS on behalf of a coalition of conservation groups, Native Hawaiian fishermen and cultural practitioners.

It was filed on behalf of Willie Kaupiko, a former member of the West Hawaii Fisheries Council and a longtime konohiki (caretaker) of the fisheries fronting Milolii Village; Kaimi Kaupiko, a Native Hawaiian cultural practitioner and subsistence fisherman; Mike Nakachi, a cultural practitioner who leads scuba diving tours; For the Fishes, a nonprofit committed to reef ecosystems; the nonprofit Center for Biological Diversity and Kai Palaoa, an unincorporated association of Native Hawaiian religious and cultural practitioners that practice, preserve and perpetuate Hawaiian religious beliefs and practices associated with the ocean deity Kanaloa.

“Under this deeply flawed EIS, the aquarium trade could still degrade and further threaten Hawaii’s reefs and thus harm the people who depend upon them in so many ways,” Renee Umberger, founder and executive director of For the Fishes, said Monday.

An Oahu Circuit Court judge subsequently denied the group’s motion for summary judgment and on Sept. 12, issued a final judgment upholding the state agency’s approval. The plaintiffs subsequently filed an appeal.

“The fact that an appeal has been filed, by itself, does not affect the status of the (EIS), which acceptance has been upheld by the Circuit Court of the First Circuit,” Case said in her Oct. 3 letter to the Environmental Review Program in the state Office of Planning.

Umberger, however, maintains that just accepting the EIS doesn’t mean issuance of permits and fish collection can begin.

“The document published in The Environmental Notice of the ‘acceptance’ was procedural, but also perhaps premature, since Earthjustice filed our notice of appeal last month, as well,” Umberger said. “The denial of our (motion for summary judgment) did not lift the injunction which remains in place until further order from the court.”

So kinda what I had thought. Practitioners of native Hawaiian subsistence fishing and "Earthjustice" appealed letting any species at all be collected, even after an EIS had been done prior showing most fish species collected not on the decline. No science behind the decision, all emotional appeal. What a waste of time.

 

[BradB]

So where does this leave us? Another 5 years in court before anyone can actually sell fish?

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

100%... I'd love to see potters angels and flame wrasses reenter the hobby.

I really don't see why hobbyists need wild yellow tangs. Breeders will need new brood stock. Right now captive bred yellow tangs cost $165 usd. It's a lot of money, but it out HOPE is that wild ones come in at a little over a hundred...say $130....why not just shell out a little more and buy CB?

Fine with harvesting from a sustainable fishery when the fish aren't available from breeding programs, but I think the Hawaii shutdown is a prequel to other changes in other fisheries. Best to get the captive breeding programs going ASAP.

Your thinking is backwards.

 

[areefer01]

Your thinking is backwards.

Why? Because you don't agree?

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Why? Because you don't agree?

because captive breeding should focus on fish that don’t have rock solid management schemes instead of ones that do. Like I said, your thinking is backwards

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

As far as I'm aware they saw a bunch of data from a previous survey and shut it all down anyway. Not super hopeful if I'm being honest.

You aren’t aware of much tbh.