Fish almost made it through quarantine

[Ross]

Need some quick help…
#f#fishmedic
13g quarantine. 2 clownfish, wild caught Midas blenny, captive bred flameback angel from biota.

I suspected the clownfish were exposed to gill flukes in a previous tank due to some slight flashing behavior and yawning.

The clownfish and Midas blenny went through therapeutic copper for 19 days before I added the captive bred flameback on 12-14

12-15 I dosed prazipro.
12-19 clownfish spawned in the quarantine tank (looking great)
12-22 (8 days later) I dosed prazipro again
12-23 I started feeding food soaked in fenbedbazole according to humblefishs instructions. Fish all looked good. Fed the soaked food for 4 days.
12-27 I dosed 3rd round of prazipro

Now my clownfish are not looking good. I suspect it is the food soaked in fenbednazole. The clowns stopped eating today and appear lethargic.


The female has some slight sloughing visible where she is black. I find it unlikely they have had brook this entire time and it just now popped up.



Today :


Several weeks ago:

 

[MnFish1]

There are a number of things here - the video is a little unclear. A copper QT is usually 30 days. So -that was a bit short. Second Prazipro is usually dosed 2x unless symptoms persist -Did they improve at all (the symptoms you describe). Third Its unclear whether the issue is with fembendazole -since its not commonly given that way - and its unclear exactly what dose they got. Clowns can get brooklnella - are they showing any thickened mucus breathing difficulties or other symptoms? Sorry for a non-specific answer. but more information would help. PS - are you sure you gave the correct prazipro dose, and were your copper levels alwqys >2?

 

[piranhaman00]

Probably want to post on HF. The new doctor here doesn’t subscribe to those methods.

 

[Ross]

There are a number of things here - the video is a little unclear. A copper QT is usually 30 days. So -that was a bit short. Second Prazipro is usually dosed 2x unless symptoms persist -Did they improve at all (the symptoms you describe). Third Its unclear whether the issue is with fembendazole -since its not commonly given that way - and its unclear exactly what dose they got. Clowns can get brooklnella - are they showing any thickened mucus breathing difficulties or other symptoms? Sorry for a non-specific answer. but more information would help. PS - are you sure you gave the correct prazipro dose, and were your copper levels alwqys >2?

Yes, the copper was short. I was treating just as a fail safe, I had no indication that the fish had ich or velvet at any point. But in my experience clowns and Midas blenny handle copper well so I put them through a few weeks. It was above 0.5 for 19 days, not including several days of ramp up.

I last had fluke symptoms 5 days after the first dose of prazipro, (the Midas blenny flashed a couple times). I dosed on the 8th day per Jays recommendations. And again 5 days after that for “insurance”. I have not seen any more fluke symptoms since the 2nd dose of prazi.

The only thing that has changed in the last several days is the fenbednazole soaked food. I went exactly by humblefishs directions with the medication, seachem focus, and a pinch of Epsom salts mixed into frozen brine.

I wouldn’t say the fish are breathing heavy, but I can see a slight bit of mucous where the female clown is black it stands out just a tiny bit. She is also acting more lethargic and swimming slightly head up which isn’t normal. She pooped a large amount of stringy white poop during the fenbednazole treatment.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The fish never received complete cycles for treatment and I question oxygen levels as both copper and mainly praziquantel reduce oxygen levels
I’m not a fan of fenbenzenol and too many meds applied in a short span of time

 

[Ross]

The fish never received complete cycles for treatment and I question oxygen levels as both copper and mainly praziquantel reduce oxygen levels
I’m not a fan of fenbenzenol and too many meds applied in a short span of time

The copper treatment was short, but I’m not sure what other cycle would have been short. The prazi was dosed after 8 days then again after 5 days. This was done after I pulled all the copper out with carbon and water changes.

Do you have any ideas on what may be going on? There are currently no meds in the water and an air stone going.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Need some quick help…
#f#fishmedic
13g quarantine. 2 clownfish, wild caught Midas blenny, captive bred flameback angel from biota.

I suspected the clownfish were exposed to gill flukes in a previous tank due to some slight flashing behavior and yawning.

The clownfish and Midas blenny went through therapeutic copper for 19 days before I added the captive bred flameback on 12-14

12-15 I dosed prazipro.
12-19 clownfish spawned in the quarantine tank (looking great)
12-22 (8 days later) I dosed prazipro again
12-23 I started feeding food soaked in fenbedbazole according to humblefishs instructions. Fish all looked good. Fed the soaked food for 4 days.
12-27 I dosed 3rd round of prazipro

Now my clownfish are not looking good. I suspect it is the food soaked in fenbednazole. The clowns stopped eating today and appear lethargic.


The female has some slight sloughing visible where she is black. I find it unlikely they have had brook this entire time and it just now popped up.



Today :


Several weeks ago:

Fenbendazole is problematic. I've stopped using it due to toxicity that I've seen in my own fish when I was an aquarium curator, as well as other cases I've seen here. One problem is that the oral dose for fenbendazole is pretty specific - 25 to 50 mg per kg of fish weight. Just soaking food in the drug is almost guaranteed to give you an incorrect dose - too low and no benefit is seen, too high and you will see toxicity. We have a medicated fish food calculator here, but it is complicated to use.

That said, I can't tell you if this is the problem or not, since the dose isn't known. There could be another, concurrent problem here. Adding the angel partway into the quarantine cycle is a wild card. Generally, if I must add a fish to an existing quarantine process, I start things over at day 1 again, starting with coppersafe and then prazi again.

In looking at the videos, nothing really stands out, the fish are still eating and are not breathing heavily. That leaves me with the original conclusion that the Fenbendazole caused toxicity. There isn't anything to be done for that though - they either recover or will continue to go downhill, sorry.

Jay

 

[Ross]

Thanks for the respond Jay. I wish I would have heard you say that about fenbednazole earlier and I wouldn’t have treated. I just went off the food mixing guide posted here and other places. I suspect you are correct though in the toxicity. The female clown looks the worst and she a lot more of the food than anyone else. She also pooped an alarm amount of white stringy poop, which I thought may have been expelling some internal worms.

Do you know what the symptoms of toxicity may be? She ate yesterday, but didn’t eat today. She just looks “off”. Lethargic and slightly elevated mucous covering.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the respond Jay. I wish I would have heard you say that about fenbednazole earlier and I wouldn’t have treated. I just went off the food mixing guide posted here and other places. I suspect you are correct though in the toxicity. The female clown looks the worst and she a lot more of the food than anyone else. She also pooped an alarm amount of white stringy poop, which I thought may have been expelling some internal worms.

Do you know what the symptoms of toxicity may be? She ate yesterday, but didn’t eat today. She just looks “off”. Lethargic and slightly elevated mucous covering.

IDK. Those "lethargy" symptoms are similar to what has been reported to me by others here. When I've used Fenbendazole in the water, the toxicity was more acute. Using Fenbendazole orally, at the correct dose is pretty safe - herpers use that all the time (as panacur) but the dose is always carefully calculated.

Jay

 

[Ross]

Update, not a good one…

-Lost the angel yesterday.
-Male clownfish still won’t eat.
-Midas blenny is eating and appears mostly back to normal.
-Female clown is eating but the Fenbendazole appears to have damaged her mouth somehow. Lips appear swollen and she can’t close her mouth. It was totally normal before the Fenbendazole.

I would appreciate any advice on how to move forward. I have maracyn 2 on hand if that may be appropriate for some kind of infection on the female clown.

I do feel compelled to warn anyone considering using Fenbendazole, use it as strictly a last resort. Another forum talks highly of it and reports very low mortality
, but that obviously wasn’t my case.

Female clown today, notice her mouth won’t close, lips appear swollen.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update, not a good one…

-Lost the angel yesterday.
-Male clownfish still won’t eat.
-Midas blenny is eating and appears mostly back to normal.
-Female clown is eating but the Fenbendazole appears to have damaged her mouth somehow. Lips appear swollen and she can’t close her mouth. It was totally normal before the Fenbendazole.

I would appreciate any advice on how to move forward. I have maracyn 2 on hand if that may be appropriate for some kind of infection on the female clown.

I do feel compelled to warn anyone considering using Fenbendazole, use it as strictly a last resort. Another forum talks highly of it and reports very low mortality
, but that obviously wasn’t my case.

Female clown today, notice her mouth won’t close, lips appear swollen.

Sorry to hear. The lethargy, not eating well and mortality are all symptoms of fenbendazole toxicity, but the mouth issue isn’t one I’ve heard of before.

Jay