DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[M4sonic]

maybe a stupid question.
i bought ammonium bicarbonate to start my cycle, but could this also be used instead of dosing nitrates while i slowly introduce my fish from my old tank and won't be adding corals for several months?

 

[seahuy]

maybe a stupid question.
i bought ammonium bicarbonate to start my cycle, but could this also be used instead of dosing nitrates while i slowly introduce my fish from my old tank and won't be adding corals for several months?

Yes, Dr. Tim fishless cycle uses this method with Ammonia Chloride instead. Take into account of ammonia levels as there's some toxic level that can slow down cycling

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

maybe a stupid question.
i bought ammonium bicarbonate to start my cycle, but could this also be used instead of dosing nitrates while i slowly introduce my fish from my old tank and won't be adding corals for several months?

Yes.

 

[M4sonic]

so another possibly stupid question.
i just received my order of ammonium bicarbonate in a small plastic tub.
The powder inside is pretty clumped together and when opening a VERY intense ammonia smell came out.

I was under the impression that it wouldn't start smelling of ammonia untill added to water? did moisture get into the tub? is this still usable? ( The smell makes me not want to open it anymore, especially inside the house )

 

[KStatefan]

Hello - after watching reef bum episode last night they talked about ammonia dosing. They recommended not doing it unless you are heavily stocked with corals.

My tank has been up for a year and have a good amount of corals - from frags to small colonies but I wouldn’t say I am heavily stocked at this point. However, my nitrates continue to drift towards zero so I dose neonitro. Is it appropriate to start ammonia dosing or should I remain on nitrate dosing for a while longer?

I started dosing from the start on my reset tank first to feed the bacteria then I just continued if Nitrate is below 10 ppm. I do not have a lot of corals. While I was cycling I had a Seneye to watch ammonia and you could barley see when I would dose the ammonia 0.1 ppm twice a day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

so another possibly stupid question.
i just received my order of ammonium bicarbonate in a small plastic tub.
The powder inside is pretty clumped together and when opening a VERY intense ammonia smell came out.

I was under the impression that it wouldn't start smelling of ammonia untill added to water? did moisture get into the tub? is this still usable? ( The smell makes me not want to open it anymore, especially inside the house )

SInce it is just a combination of ammonia and CO2, some will be in equilibrium with the gases. I would ignore the smell. I expect it to smell somewhat less when in the water.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

Randy. So I started Monday by getting nitrates to 10pm and dosing 10ml of ammonium bicarbonates. By Friday I was at around 2ppm nitrates and by today it’s a little lower than 2 ppm. The issues is that just like that out of no where Dino popped up full force. I’m wondering if it’s the increase in nitrates then slowly dropped. I have not added any nitrates or bumped up the ammonia. I started dosing some purple non sulfure bacteria as it helped me beat Dino’s last time.

Should I stop dosing ammonia for now or bump up nitrates to 10 again and increase my ammonia dosing to 10.5 ml or 11ml ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy. So I started Monday by getting nitrates to 10pm and dosing 10ml of ammonium bicarbonates. By Friday I was at around 2ppm nitrates and by today it’s a little lower than 2 ppm. The issues is that just like that out of no where Dino popped up full force. I’m wondering if it’s the increase in nitrates then slowly dropped. I have not added any nitrates or bumped up the ammonia. I started dosing some purple non sulfure bacteria as it helped me beat Dino’s last time.

Should I stop dosing ammonia for now or bump up nitrates to 10 again and increase my ammonia dosing to 10.5 ml or 11ml ?

Are you sure it is dinos?

I do not know if ammonium is an issue in this context, or nitrate, or unrelated, but it seems reasonable to stick to nitrate dosing for a bit.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

Are you sure it is dinos?

I do not know if ammonium is an issue in this context, or nitrate, or unrelated, but it seems reasonable to stick to nitrate dosing for a bit.

Will do. And yes. It’s the same type I had before the one that goes into the water column at night.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Will do. And yes. It’s the same type I had before the one that goes into the water column at night.

I just made NH4HCO3 stock solution and did a .1ppm dose. I have been struggling with dinos for a while and I'm tired of giving brightwell money. Will report if I notice any difference. I am hoping that some algae uses ammonia a little better than these ostreopsis do.

 

[Reefahholic]

Will do. And yes. It’s the same type I had before the one that goes into the water column at night.

Ostreopsis.

So do you know your ammonium dose in ppm vs mL. If not, can you calculate it. I’m curious what the 10mL of your stock solution is in of NH4HCO3…that’s actually being added to the system.

 

[Reefahholic]

It's not immediately obvious to me whether ammonia dosing will show responses in the system at the nitrogen levels common with nitrate dosing, or the much lower nitrogen levels involved in amino acid dosing.

One may only need to keep ammonia at natural ammonia levels, which would be undetectable with most test kits.

One may also need to keep nitrate higher in order to allow organisms to take it up if their uptake mechanisms for nitrate are not as efficient.

This adds a little complexity especially when coming from straight nitrogen dosing. Now
one needs to understand the relationship between the ammonia and nitrogen, and how they work together. Both are being consumed at different rates. It’s difficult to monitor ammonia due to the low level being dosed. I will start to play around with this.

It’s interesting that folks are seeing a nitrate drop when dosing ammonia. The system obviously likes it. However, it probably isn’t a good idea to bump up nitrate and ammonia on the same day or at the same time unless very small spread out doses. If dosing too much of both I could see this impacting stability and causing a destabilizing effect that would promote Dino’s or fuel algae growth.

If you are concerned about taking to long to get nitrate up while slowly ramping up ammonia (so as to not overdose) you could always boost nitrate directly to 10 ppm, then continue to dose ammonia.

I think this is a good idea. Dose nitrogen up on a different day while temporarily holding the ammonia dosing until you hit your target level, and then resume ammonia dosing. Although it may be perfectly fine if the ammonia dose is very low at 0.1ppm and spread out all throughout the day. I’d assume it would be as long as the dose isn’t too potent.

That leads me to a few questions:

1. Have you guys seen a certain ppm dose that is reported to be too strong. Obviously somebody has overdosed. I’ve seen papers that have stated some where around 0.8 ppm some corals and animals are becoming affected.

2. Anybody tried more than 0.1? Is 0.3ppm ok? How about 0.6ppm? Looking for the most optimal dose, but don’t want to dose so weak that it’s taking 500 doses a day to achieve the baseline ammonia needed to feed the corals.

3. Has anybody been able to completely stop nitrogen dosing because the ammonia dosing is so effective? I mean of course keep some N available in the system, but have you see a complete stop in consumption after starting ammonium bicarbonate or chloride? Just curious how well this is working for some of you.

 

[Reefahholic]

Time to play…

I need to quite playing with stuff.

 

[seahuy]

This adds a little complexity especially when coming from straight nitrogen dosing. Now
one needs to understand the relationship between the ammonia and nitrogen, and how they work together. Both are being consumed at different rates. It’s difficult to monitor ammonia due to the low level being dosed. I will start to play around with this.

It’s interesting that folks are seeing a nitrate drop when dosing ammonia. The system obviously likes it. However, it probably isn’t a good idea to bump up nitrate and ammonia on the same day or at the same time unless very small spread out doses. If dosing too much of both I could see this impacting stability and causing a destabilizing effect that would promote Dino’s or fuel algae growth.



I think this is a good idea. Dose nitrogen up on a different day while temporarily holding the ammonia dosing until you hit your target level, and then resume ammonia dosing. Although it may be perfectly fine if the ammonia dose is very low at 0.1ppm and spread out all throughout the day. I’d assume it would be as long as the dose isn’t too potent.

That leads me to a few questions:

1. Have you guys seen a certain ppm dose that is reported to be too strong. Obviously somebody has overdosed. I’ve seen papers that have stated some where around 0.8 ppm some corals and animals are becoming affected.

2. Anybody tried more than 0.1? Is 0.3ppm ok? How about 0.6ppm? Looking for the most optimal dose, but don’t want to dose so weak that it’s taking 500 doses a day to achieve the baseline ammonia needed to feed the corals.

3. Has anybody been able to completely stop nitrogen dosing because the ammonia dosing is so effective? I mean of course keep some N available in the system, but have you see a complete stop in consumption after starting ammonium bicarbonate or chloride? Just curious how well this is working for some of you.

I have at times know that i've dosed over .1ppm -- My calculation calls for 1.75ml on my 20gal. Assuming some errors there, i could have 21gal total volume or what have or small error in stock solution, I sometimes target 2ml and sometimes maybe even 2.2ml directly into my sump. Consistently, i know that my ammonia is zero after 30 mins, i haven't had chances to test sooner but the ammonia seems to get taken up quickly.

Given that, im still not sure if my corals or bacteria is consuming it or by how much as I do not follow up with nitrate testing. My goal now is to make sure the amt im dosing is safe.

Currently dosing manually from a 20ml syringe throughout the day, if im close to the tank, i'll sometime dose up to 3x in a 1-2 hr period.

 

[Reefahholic]

Given that, im still not sure if my corals or bacteria is consuming it or by how much as I do not follow up with nitrate testing. My goal now is to make sure the amt im dosing is safe.

So what should you expect when testing nitrate? A rise if the ammonia is too potent or overdosed, and a decline or stable value if the dose is desirable.

Currently dosing manually from a 20ml syringe throughout the day, if im close to the tank, i'll sometime dose up to 3x in a 1-2 hr period.

Do you know your actual dose in ppm though? Talking in mL is like a foreign language to me.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

This adds a little complexity especially when coming from straight nitrogen dosing. Now
one needs to understand the relationship between the ammonia and nitrogen, and how they work together. Both are being consumed at different rates. It’s difficult to monitor ammonia due to the low level being dosed. I will start to play around with this.

It’s interesting that folks are seeing a nitrate drop when dosing ammonia. The system obviously likes it. However, it probably isn’t a good idea to bump up nitrate and ammonia on the same day or at the same time unless very small spread out doses. If dosing too much of both I could see this impacting stability and causing a destabilizing effect that would promote Dino’s or fuel algae growth.



I think this is a good idea. Dose nitrogen up on a different day while temporarily holding the ammonia dosing until you hit your target level, and then resume ammonia dosing. Although it may be perfectly fine if the ammonia dose is very low at 0.1ppm and spread out all throughout the day. I’d assume it would be as long as the dose isn’t too potent.

That leads me to a few questions:

1. Have you guys seen a certain ppm dose that is reported to be too strong. Obviously somebody has overdosed. I’ve seen papers that have stated some where around 0.8 ppm some corals and animals are becoming affected.

2. Anybody tried more than 0.1? Is 0.3ppm ok? How about 0.6ppm? Looking for the most optimal dose, but don’t want to dose so weak that it’s taking 500 doses a day to achieve the baseline ammonia needed to feed the corals.

3. Has anybody been able to completely stop nitrogen dosing because the ammonia dosing is so effective? I mean of course keep some N available in the system, but have you see a complete stop in consumption after starting ammonium bicarbonate or chloride? Just curious how well this is working for some of you.

Not trying to put words in Randys mouth here but I remember him stating to not dose more than 0.3ppm in a single dose without testing for ammonia. I’ve always spread out my dosing but the maximum I ever dosed was 0.6ppm in a single day. That was when I first started and was weening off of sodium nitrate. As I dialed down sodium nitrate, I increased ammonium bicarbonate by 0.1ppm increments (up to 0.6ppm over 24 hours) to maintain nitrate levels. I think I actually went up to 0.8ppm but nitrate increased so I settled on 0.6ppm. After some time my needs declined and it has settled at 0.3ppm for the better part of a year. I started dosing vinegar a short time ago and have bumped my ammonium doseage up to 0.4ppm daily and may bump both vinegar and ammonium up next week.

Edit. There was some discussion earlier on as to whether larger, once or twice a day dosing, is more beneficial than smaller doses spread out. I don’t remember if that was truly settled. I never tried the larger, singular dosing.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

Ostreopsis.

So do you know your ammonium dose in ppm vs mL. If not, can you calculate it. I’m curious what the 10mL of your stock solution is in of NH4HCO3…that’s actually being added to the system.

I have no idea what the ammonia is in ppm but I’m dosing it as per Randy’s guide. I bumped up my ammonia to 10.5 ml per day spread out in 24 doses of .44ml. I also bumped nitrates up to 10ppm. Going to check daily and see if they stay stable with the slight bump of ammonia. Also Dino still holding strong. Let see.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This adds a little complexity especially when coming from straight nitrogen dosing. Now
one needs to understand the relationship between the ammonia and nitrogen, and how they work together. Both are being consumed at different rates. It’s difficult to monitor ammonia due to the low level being dosed. I will start to play around with this.

It’s interesting that folks are seeing a nitrate drop when dosing ammonia. The system obviously likes it. However, it probably isn’t a good idea to bump up nitrate and ammonia on the same day or at the same time unless very small spread out doses. If dosing too much of both I could see this impacting stability and causing a destabilizing effect that would promote Dino’s or fuel algae growth.



I think this is a good idea. Dose nitrogen up on a different day while temporarily holding the ammonia dosing until you hit your target level, and then resume ammonia dosing. Although it may be perfectly fine if the ammonia dose is very low at 0.1ppm and spread out all throughout the day. I’d assume it would be as long as the dose isn’t too potent.

That leads me to a few questions:

1. Have you guys seen a certain ppm dose that is reported to be too strong. Obviously somebody has overdosed. I’ve seen papers that have stated some where around 0.8 ppm some corals and animals are becoming affected.

2. Anybody tried more than 0.1? Is 0.3ppm ok? How about 0.6ppm? Looking for the most optimal dose, but don’t want to dose so weak that it’s taking 500 doses a day to achieve the baseline ammonia needed to feed the corals.

3. Has anybody been able to completely stop nitrogen dosing because the ammonia dosing is so effective? I mean of course keep some N available in the system, but have you see a complete stop in consumption after starting ammonium bicarbonate or chloride? Just curious how well this is working for some of you.

I’ve not seen anyone report a dose that is too strong from an ammonia tox perspective, but some folks do see rising nitrate.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

This adds a little complexity especially when coming from straight nitrogen dosing. Now
one needs to understand the relationship between the ammonia and nitrogen, and how they work together. Both are being consumed at different rates. It’s difficult to monitor ammonia due to the low level being dosed. I will start to play around with this.

It’s interesting that folks are seeing a nitrate drop when dosing ammonia. The system obviously likes it. However, it probably isn’t a good idea to bump up nitrate and ammonia on the same day or at the same time unless very small spread out doses. If dosing too much of both I could see this impacting stability and causing a destabilizing effect that would promote Dino’s or fuel algae growth.



I think this is a good idea. Dose nitrogen up on a different day while temporarily holding the ammonia dosing until you hit your target level, and then resume ammonia dosing. Although it may be perfectly fine if the ammonia dose is very low at 0.1ppm and spread out all throughout the day. I’d assume it would be as long as the dose isn’t too potent.

That leads me to a few questions:

1. Have you guys seen a certain ppm dose that is reported to be too strong. Obviously somebody has overdosed. I’ve seen papers that have stated some where around 0.8 ppm some corals and animals are becoming affected.

2. Anybody tried more than 0.1? Is 0.3ppm ok? How about 0.6ppm? Looking for the most optimal dose, but don’t want to dose so weak that it’s taking 500 doses a day to achieve the baseline ammonia needed to feed the corals.

3. Has anybody been able to completely stop nitrogen dosing because the ammonia dosing is so effective? I mean of course keep some N available in the system, but have you see a complete stop in consumption after starting ammonium bicarbonate or chloride? Just curious how well this is working for some of you.

When you say nitrogen dosing, do you mean nitrate?

I was dosing .2ppm regularly at one point, have not tried going higher, but that .2 seemed as effective as 3 cap fulls of neonitro in an 85 gal system. I don't recall the ppm dose for neonitro.

 

[Reefahholic]

When you say nitrogen dosing, do you mean nitrate?

I was dosing .2ppm regularly at one point, have not tried going higher, but that .2 seemed as effective as 3 cap fulls of neonitro in an 85 gal system. I don't recall the ppm dose for neonitro.

Yeah, just nitrate dosing. Sounds like 0.1-0.2 is good place to start then.