DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ive been dosing Ammonium bicarbonate but a few of my sps have melted like an alk tip-burn and some bleached.

How much impact does the ammonium bicarbonate have on pH/Alk? I don't have a pH probe, that's my next purchase, but based on observations of the sps I'm assuming this is what's happening but I'm unsure of if its related to the ammonium bicarbonate dosing.

Alk test have been stable around 8.5-8.7 but it isn't tested around the dosing time. I stopped dosing for now.

It should not have any detectable effect on alk or pH

Are you monitoring nitrate?

 

[Justin A.]

It should not have any detectable effect on alk or pH

Are you monitoring nitrate?

Yes, it was undetectable with just ammonia dosing, i started low at 1ml then gradually bumped to 4ml and then increased to 6-8ml to see if i would get any detectable nitrates. Since I didn't, i went ahead and dosed neonitro just to get a baseline nitrate reading to know how to continue adjusting the ammonia dosing. Over a few days i dosed neonitro to get to 10ppm then backed off.

The dosing of ammonia and the neonitro were the only changes/additions and just based on observation it looks like alk burn/bleaching.

Maybe unrelated but figured id ask.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, it was undetectable with just ammonia dosing, i started low at 1ml then gradually bumped to 4ml and then increased to 6-8ml to see if i would get any detectable nitrates. Since I didn't, i went ahead and dosed neonitro just to get a baseline nitrate reading to know how to continue adjusting the ammonia dosing. Over a few days i dosed neonitro to get to 10ppm then backed off.

The dosing of ammonia and the neonitro were the only changes/additions and just based on observation it looks like alk burn/bleaching.

Maybe unrelated but figured id ask.

Might need to boost ammonia or nitrate faster to get off 0 ppm nitrate, in case that contributed.

 

[DangerDave]

I've been manually dosing ammonium bicarbonate sporadically since Randy started this thread. At first it was in my display tank, which sprung a leak and has since been taken down (I believe a coral grew through the silicone!) The current tank is a 4x8 frag tank, total system is about 425 gallons. It's fishless, just corals, some flower nems, and the cleanup crew (150ish snails, 30 blue legs, and about 8 pitho crabs) currently. I've been dosing about 40-50 ml of Randy's suggested mixture, i have to dose nitrates to keep it from bottoming out. As a note I'm also dosing phosphate, iodide, and H202 via an oxydator.

I want to up the dosage of ammonia to the point I can stop dosing nitrates altogether. I'm not sure how I want to dose it, or how much. I'm going to start at 60ML and go up from there. Should I program my Dos to do 6 doses of 10ml a day, or let the apex meter it out over the 24hr period?

Dave

It's a few days short of a month since I started continually dosing Randy's recipe into the system. I started at 60ml, and I'm up to 90ml. I've held at this number since I've been able to keep my nitrates steady at 10 for the last two weeks.

As a note, I am also feeding other sources of food that hasn't changed. Every couple/few days I will direct feed the nems, duncans, euphllia, etc with a mix of Avast's reef jerky and freeze dried mysis. This is only about a 1/2 teaspoon at a time mixed with tank water. I will also feed some aminos once or twice a week at half the mfr's reccomended dosage. Currently I have Restore on hand for this. Previously it was AB+.

All of the corals have gained color and the euphyllia have a glowing sheen to them. They are all opening well, and a couple have started adding additional colors. One in particular, a purple octospawn with pink tips is turning green (tips still pink). I'm really stoked on this new method and will continue to use it. I expect to up my dosage as the corals grow and I add more.

Thanks for the great idea Randy, and the effort you and everyone else has put into the discussion about it.

Dave

 

[jazzman7838]

You mean ammonia and phosphate together ? That may grow algae, and is more likely to grow bacteria. Will that happen, I don’t know.

Hi Randy, just an update; I’ve been doing this since the end of May and haven’t seen any problems with it at all.

I add 10 grams of ammonium bicarbonate and 0.1 grams of trisodium phosphate to 58 L of DI water. This solution is dosed to my tank 12x per day as my top off, and the amount slightly varies over the year but not by much (I live in a very temperate and consistent climate near the ocean).

No algae in the DI water, no nitrogen cycle, and I’m now able to keep my nitrate and phosphate at 5 ppm and 0.05 ppm consistently.

Thanks again!

 

[EricLille]

Hi, i have zero nitrate currently in my tank and I add liquid nitrate each day with my dosing pump. I’d like to switch to ammonium bicarbonate. For those using ammonium, do you see benefits ? No risk due to the ammonium toxicity for fishes ?
Thanks for your advice

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi, i have zero nitrate currently in my tank and I add liquid nitrate each day with my dosing pump. I’d like to switch to ammonium bicarbonate. For those using ammonium, do you see benefits ? No risk due to the ammonium toxicity for fishes ?
Thanks for your advice

No one has reported any toxicity, and I definitely would not worry about that when dosed as I recommend.

Benefits I’ll have to leave to folks doing it, but the consensus is generally positive, which is why I have switched my general low N recommendation to dosing ammonium bicarbonate from dosing nitrate.

 

[drawman]

Hi Randy, just an update; I’ve been doing this since the end of May and haven’t seen any problems with it at all.

I add 10 grams of ammonium bicarbonate and 0.1 grams of trisodium phosphate to 58 L of DI water. This solution is dosed to my tank 12x per day as my top off, and the amount slightly varies over the year but not by much (I live in a very temperate and consistent climate near the ocean).

No algae in the DI water, no nitrogen cycle, and I’m now able to keep my nitrate and phosphate at 5 ppm and 0.05 ppm consistently.

Thanks again!

I'm curious are you measuring ammonia or nitrate in the top off water (to determine the nitrogen cycle isn't going forward)? Is it covered and are you having to clean it often? Glad it is working this way for you!

 

[jazzman7838]

I'm curious are you measuring ammonia or nitrate in the top off water (to determine the nitrogen cycle isn't going forward)? Is it covered and are you having to clean it often? Glad it is working this way for you!

Checking ammonia in the DI water and yes it’s staying very high, I have to dilute it down to check it.

I have it covered up (it’s a glass lid on a glass tank) and I never clean it.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

Anyone carbon dosing and using ammonia at the same time ?

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Anyone carbon dosing and using ammonia at the same time ?

I recently started vinegar…as we discussed. There were a couple people that had mentioned it in @Miami Reef new dosing charts for vodka and vinegar thread. I couldn’t find anything in the way of experience or detail about it though. There was a couple old reef central/reefkeeping posts and info going back a ways that I ran across in googling. Hopefully someone chimes in with some expertise as I’d be interested in hearing more as well.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

I recently started vinegar…as we discussed. There were a couple people that had mentioned it in @Miami Reef new dosing charts for vodka and vinegar thread. I couldn’t find anything in the way of experience or detail about it though. There was a couple old reef central/reefkeeping posts and info going back a ways that I ran across in googling. Hopefully someone chimes in with some expertise as I’d be interested in hearing more as well.

Yeah. I wonder if there’s more people doing. I actually dosing np bacto balance and my nitrates stay undetectable but my phosphates settled at .26 so I’m wondering if I add ammonia to bring nitrates up while keeping the same dose of np bacto to would see a decrease in phosphate.

 

[dreamscape]

@Randy Holmes-Farley thanks for your time and efforts! Your input is extremely valuable and you’re a pioneer to the hobby. Quick question: would Ammonium Hydroxide be a better option than Ammonium Bicarbonate? I’m thinking as we’re not adding so much bicarbonate to the tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anyone carbon dosing and using ammonia at the same time ?

While I have not done it, it’s a reasonable thing to do if the goal of the carbon dosing is to use bacteria as food for corals or other filter feeders.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley thanks for your time and efforts! Your input is extremely valuable and you’re a pioneer to the hobby. Quick question: would Ammonium Hydroxide be a better option than Ammonium Bicarbonate? I’m thinking as we’re not adding so much bicarbonate to the tank?

No, I do not think it is better. The only difference is a very small pH effect. The alkalinity effect is identical.

Think of it this way.

Ammonium hydroxide is actually just ammonia dissolved in water.

Ammonium bicarbonate is just ammonia dissolved in water plus some carbon dioxide added.

While ammonium hydroxide is chemically fine to use, it may not be as easy to obtain as food grade or other high purity grade, and the ammonia in it evaporates to the air faster.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

While I have not done it, it’s a reasonable thing to do if the goal of the carbon dosing is to use bacteria as food for corals or other filter feeders.

That is the goal.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

While I have not done it, it’s a reasonable thing to do if the goal of the carbon dosing is to use bacteria as food for corals or other filter feeders.

So you recommend only .1 ammonia per day or is that what can be added safely at one time. I have a 100 gallon total volume and the tank is nitrate depleted so I started with 10 ml per day separated in 24 doses. So every hour it will dose .42ml. Basically I want to get to around 10 nitrate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So you recommend only .1 ammonia per day or is that what can be added safely at one time. I have a 100 gallon total volume and the tank is nitrate depleted so I started with 10 ml per day separated in 24 doses. So every hour it will dose .42ml. Basically I want to get to around 10 nitrate.

That’s per dose. Folks may need to start slow, but many could ultimately be dosed per day.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

That’s per dose. Folks may need to start slow, but many could ultimately be dosed per day.

So I started too low? Right now I’m nitrates deleted. So where would I be if I want to bring up my nitrates up to around 10 ppm

 

[dreamscape]

No, I do not think it is better. The only difference is a very small pH effect. The alkalinity effect is identical.

Think of it this way.

Ammonium hydroxide is actually just ammonia dissolved in water.

Ammonium bicarbonate is just ammonia dissolved in water plus some carbon dioxide added.

While ammonium hydroxide is chemically fine to use, it may not be as easy to obtain as food grade or other high purity grade, and the ammonia in it evaporates to the air faster.

Awesome. Thanks did the prompt reply. You’re the best.