Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[saltyhog]

I’ve been battling Dino’s for about a year. I’ve tried virtually every method and the only thing that seems to work for me is Silica. I hope I can stop dosing silica at some point, but not counting on it. At this point I’m at peace with the fact that I may have to dose Silica permanently lol. Every time I pull back, even slowly, the Dino’s come back with vengeance.

Once you start dosing water glass it may get better. The dose of SpongExcel you've been dosing is 1/10th the recommended amount. I would be willing to bet you will be able to stop eventually. Be sure to monitor slides fairly often as diatoms look so much like LCA and SCA that you might think things are worse. Sounds like you've already been doing that.

 

[saltyhog]

I recently started adding SpongExcel to my tank, and I notice this stuff precipitates immediately when I add it to my water...is this normal?

It's very alkaline so precipitation is a possibility. If it's an issue just dilute each dose in a good amount of RO/DI water and pour it slowly in a high flow area.

Why are you dosing SpongExcel? Just to feed sponges or do you have dinos. If the later, look at the conversation above and consider changing to water glass as a silicate source.

 

[apb03]

It's very alkaline so precipitation is a possibility. If it's an issue just dilute each dose in a good amount of RO/DI water and pour it slowly in a high flow area.

Why are you dosing SpongExcel? Just to feed sponges or do you have dinos. If the later, look at the conversation above and consider changing to water glass as a silicate source.

Yep, I have Dinos, attached a couple of photos. I've been informed in another thread that this is Porocentrum, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case. I've tried a blackout with a UV, but it didn't make a difference, it always comes back with a reddish mat after 48 hours of removal. The 2nd photo is the mucus/or whatever the visible stuff is.

Thanks for the advice, I'll pick up some water glass instead. Looks like I'm starting to get some diatoms but need more silicates. Hopefully, this works.

 

[Jason K]

About 6 months into Dino battle. LCA first then SCA. Daily dosing of nutrients (for all six months) and silica (last two months) has been working but still some Dinos remain, although mostly have been replaced by diatoms and hair algae at this point. But I’m also seeing a ton of these little yellow spheres (black circle) lately. Any idea what they are? Some LCA And SCA circled in red for relative size.

 

[saltyhog]

Yep, I have Dinos, attached a couple of photos. I've been informed in another thread that this is Porocentrum, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case. I've tried a blackout with a UV, but it didn't make a difference, it always comes back with a reddish mat after 48 hours of removal. The 2nd photo is the mucus/or whatever the visible stuff is.

Not enough focus to be sure but those look more like LCA to me. Doesn't matter, they are treated the same. SpongExcel is not concentrated enough to be a practical choice.

Use water glass, 0.2 ml/15 gallons of system volume daily. Mix each dose with a good amount of RO/DI water (bigger the dose the more RO/DI). Pour it slowly in a high flow area. Monitor slides regularly as diatoms will look almost exactly like dinos in the tank. Otherwise you might think things are getting worse when they're actually better.

This is an inexpensive source of water glass. Amazon product

 

[apb03]

Not enough focus to be sure but those look more like LCA to me. Doesn't matter, they are treated the same. SpongExcel is not concentrated enough to be a practical choice.

Use water glass, 0.2 ml/15 gallons of system volume daily. Mix each dose with a good amount of RO/DI water (bigger the dose the more RO/DI). Pour it slowly in a high flow area. Monitor slides regularly as diatoms will look almost exactly like dinos in the tank. Otherwise you might think things are getting worse when they're actually better.

This is an inexpensive source of water glass. Amazon product

That link didn't come through but I think I found what you recommended, Sodium Silicate, Reagent grade. I'll pick some up, thank you for the advice!

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

That link didn't come through but I think I found what you recommended, Sodium Silicate, Reagent grade. I'll pick some up, thank you for the advice!

For some reason I cannot see many links on R2R on desktop, but on mobile browser I can. Try that in future.

 

[apb03]

One thing I struggle with is my persistent Dinos despite never even remotely coming close to a nutrient deficiency. I am currently at 26ppm Nitrate and .15ppm phosphate.

Also, have tons of pods and critters in my refugium. Wondering how else I can increase my bio diversity aside from MB7 which I've been doing for weeks now.

Tank is 7 months old and I did use Chemiclean once (I think this caused it).

 

[saltyhog]

That link didn't come through but I think I found what you recommended, Sodium Silicate, Reagent grade. I'll pick some up, thank you for the advice!

Yeah, I don't know why it does that. I can see it but my wife's computer can't. Just search Loud Wolf on Amazon.

 

[marcogig]

Are this dino @taricha

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Are this dino @taricha

Very hard to tell with these pics/video, but in video it looks like I may see one Ostreopsis rotating around by itself. Wouldn't be surprised if there is more in the clumped up object in the middle.

 

[bishoptf]

@ScottB @taricha, I dunno but is it just impossible to set up a dry rock tank and not get dino's...new tank, 33g long rock had been in a tub for 4-5months with live florida mud and sand and other inverts lighted etc to do its thing then moved rock over to tank back in April and just been keeping algae at bay and added some fish back in July, no real coral for the most part. I have battled Dinos in my other DT and learned to not let my Nitrate and Phosphate go low, Nitrate is 9 and PO4 is around .04. I have some algae, not really green hair, looks like it but more slimy so I know I have nutrients but noticed today when I was about to do a WC dino's starting to cover stuff, so frustrating. I know I still have them in my other tank and maybe somehow cross contaminated, I dunno but is really uv the only way to treat these guys? I have a big UV but figuring out how to plumb it in will be a major hassle, and BTW this is a bare bottom tank, no sand just a lot of rock. Corraline was starting to come along and I thought I was getting close to plopping a bunch of coral but not now....

Just don't understand how they can be such a pain...ugh

 

[taricha]

@ScottB @taricha, I dunno but is it just impossible to set up a dry rock tank and not get dino's...new tank, 33g long rock had been in a tub for 4-5months with live florida mud and sand and other inverts lighted etc to do its thing then moved rock over to tank back in April and just been keeping algae at bay and added some fish back in July, no real coral for the most part. I have battled Dinos in my other DT and learned to not let my Nitrate and Phosphate go low, Nitrate is 9 and PO4 is around .04. I have some algae, not really green hair, looks like it but more slimy so I know I have nutrients but noticed today when I was about to do a WC dino's starting to cover stuff, so frustrating. I know I still have them in my other tank and maybe somehow cross contaminated, I dunno but is really uv the only way to treat these guys? I have a big UV but figuring out how to plumb it in will be a major hassle, and BTW this is a bare bottom tank, no sand just a lot of rock. Corraline was starting to come along and I thought I was getting close to plopping a bunch of coral but not now....

Just don't understand how they can be such a pain...ugh

If you really don't want to run UV, you can hang filter floss up high in strong flow and rinse it out in tap water daily around noon. You'll export a bunch of those ostreopsis that way, and maybe...you can avoid using UV in this circumstance.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

@ScottB @taricha, I dunno but is it just impossible to set up a dry rock tank and not get dino's...new tank, 33g long rock had been in a tub for 4-5months with live florida mud and sand and other inverts lighted etc to do its thing then moved rock over to tank back in April and just been keeping algae at bay and added some fish back in July, no real coral for the most part. I have battled Dinos in my other DT and learned to not let my Nitrate and Phosphate go low, Nitrate is 9 and PO4 is around .04. I have some algae, not really green hair, looks like it but more slimy so I know I have nutrients but noticed today when I was about to do a WC dino's starting to cover stuff, so frustrating. I know I still have them in my other tank and maybe somehow cross contaminated, I dunno but is really uv the only way to treat these guys? I have a big UV but figuring out how to plumb it in will be a major hassle, and BTW this is a bare bottom tank, no sand just a lot of rock. Corraline was starting to come along and I thought I was getting close to plopping a bunch of coral but not now....

Just don't understand how they can be such a pain...ugh

I’ve not had ostreopsis, but does it respond well to Silica? I think most Dino types do? Silica is only thing that seems to work long term for me, but annoyingly I have to keep Silica going permanently or the dinos come back. Maybe someday that will change, but for last few months it’s the only thing that seems to work for me if I want my coral to live. Sand looks ugly with diatoms but dinos not killing everything.

 

[helwrj28]

Anybody have a good method for removing dinos from coral tissue? I've tried blasting it off and the use of a toothbrush from soft tissue but some of the dinos still persist...

 

[bishoptf]

If you really don't want to run UV, you can hang filter floss up high in strong flow and rinse it out in tap water daily around noon. You'll export a bunch of those ostreopsis that way, and maybe...you can avoid using UV in this circumstance.

Understand I have done the floss thing before didnt seem to make much of a difference, don't get me wrong they collected on the floss pretty well but just seemed like I could do it every day and it not make a difference. That tank I still see trails of dino's when the lights come on coming off my halmedia, its not terrible but they just never really seem to go away. I think I must have the super strain and probably what made its way into my new tank,lol.

So i guess we still have not made much progress on what lack of bacteria type that causes this stuff or which bacteria strains help to minimize it. I really wish we could figure things out better so we could minimize this stuff, its one of the more frustrating aspect of this hobby and there are many but thats right up there....still trying to figure out how I would plumb my big ole uv into the tank, part of me kind of wants to let it go and see how bad its going to get.

 

[ScottB]

Understand I have done the floss thing before didnt seem to make much of a difference, don't get me wrong they collected on the floss pretty well but just seemed like I could do it every day and it not make a difference. That tank I still see trails of dino's when the lights come on coming off my halmedia, its not terrible but they just never really seem to go away. I think I must have the super strain and probably what made its way into my new tank,lol.

So i guess we still have not made much progress on what lack of bacteria type that causes this stuff or which bacteria strains help to minimize it. I really wish we could figure things out better so we could minimize this stuff, its one of the more frustrating aspect of this hobby and there are many but thats right up there....still trying to figure out how I would plumb my big ole uv into the tank, part of me kind of wants to let it go and see how bad its going to get.

If they are Ostreo dinos, well, the best answer remains a solid UV implementation. Just plumb it temporary/ugly and run the thing. Don't put water on the floor but go with it.

New username for the same father of a pilot I had some DMs with before? My checkride is T-6 days. Wish me luck!

 

[bishoptf]

If they are Ostreo dinos, well, the best answer remains a solid UV implementation. Just plumb it temporary/ugly and run the thing. Don't put water on the floor but go with it.

New username for the same father of a pilot I had some DMs with before? My checkride is T-6 days. Wish me luck!

Yup thats me, my avatar should have given it away, not sure what I was thinking when I made my profile years ago and didn't use my normal username so they let me correct it...

See my post above they look like Ostreo to me, you agree? Yeah I have a big ole 20w pondmaster, I'm just frustrated that I need to use it. Already started working on the plumbing (see pic), like you said I guess I am just going to sit it on the floor and figure out where to do in and out. I need lids on my tank and so I am going to have to modify one of them so I can do the in and out which is a royal pain...I thought my second time out I had learned how to avoid these buggers, let my rock go for 5 months in a heated and lighted ben with snails and live sand, live mud etc...all total its been going for 8 months, have nitrate and phosphate and all of a sudden they just showed up. I still have them in my other tank so maybe I cross contaminated or something, I dunno but each day they get a little worse. My new build is a 33g long which I made into AIO, bare bottom and dry rock....man its been painful last couple of months. I was almost to the point where I was going to add a BUNCH of coral and glad I held off. Corralline is coming along but geez its a slow process and between algae and now this, just wish we knew what bacteria strains minimize these things, I keep hoping you smart guys figure something out to make these guys stay away....they are just a royal pain.


You'll do great on your checkride, you know what you are doing and your instructors wouldnt have signed off if they didn't feel like you are ready, you'll do great! Let me know how things go, can't wait to here how it goes.

 

[thedon986]

I wanted to share my *preliminary* experience with the Green Killing Machine 24w on my 48x24x20 with 40b sump, about 90 total gallons after rock and sand. Friday I started to notice polyp retraction on my forest fire digi that I have had about two weeks and has looked fine those two. I figured hey I'm due for a water change so I did a 15% change on Saturday morning and walked away. Sunday I noticed things were actually looking worse. So I changed my carbon and started taking a close look at things. I started to notice some brown strings on the tips of some macro algae and generally that the macro is looking stalled out and dying back. Got out the microscope and sure enough, ostreopsis with some small cell amph running around in the background. Yesterday I bought a GKM after debating dropping money on a more expensive UV. This morning I installed it around 8am and left the lights off until about 1pm just in case there were any cells still in the water column. Well here I am at almost 4pm and the polyp extension on my frag rack is bigger than it has ever been. The forest fire digi is no longer looking bald.

Lastly, a lot of my reading was saying the GKM pump is too strong. The rating on the unit I got says 500l/h which is roughly 132gph. Not nearly too fast and it already seems to be beneficial. I can see a few small strings, but they are shorter a there are definitely fewer of them than yesterday. Now, about those leaching metals.....that's another aspect, I suppose. Regardless I will definitely be investing in a nicer UV here shortly and am eyeing the 55w Lifegard unit.

 

[helwrj28]

I'm currently battling prorocentrum in my sandbed, dosing silicates, bacteria, and phyto, and finally getting some diatoms!

Now the concern is I have an outbreak on my rockwork with coolia...

Moving forward what should I treat first? I do have a UV but I'm concerned that using it may disrupt my diatom population but I also want to tackle the coolia.. any advice how to proceed is much appreciated!