Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

rockstarta78

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@mcarroll quick question for you, if I have to dose Fluco for Bryopsis, will that have any effect on NO3 and PO4? I am trying to get to 5ppm NO3 and 0.10ppm PO4. Bryopsis lot easier to kill then Dino. So I was wondering, if I do end up getting Bryopsis, can I fight both Algae at the same time? Fluco is usually a 21 days treatment with skimmer off for the first 5 days.
 
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mcarroll

mcarroll

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Folks have done it before....you have to watch out for the nutrient-release from the Bryopsis die-off and (if there's a lot) you'll probably have to reduce or stop dosing for a minute.

Sounds like you're unsure though...I would definitely not flucon if you aren't sure.

I also think the skimmer feature is optional.

Which as someone who's never had Bryopsis leads me to say: make sure you stick to their FAQ in the first post and try to ask @NCreefguy if you have questions. Sometime the comments in that thread have "wandered here and there" using it in different ways for different things....perhaps making the course not as clear if you just want to treat bryopsis with fluconazole.
 

rockstarta78

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Thank you @mcarroll . For now, I am sticking to Dino removal regiment. Once Dino is gone, I can get started on Bryopsis (if it is really bryopsis). I also see hair algae growing. So I think very slowly, extremely slowly, snail pace slowly ;)I am winning against the Dino. Only time will tell.
 

Beardo

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Update:
Things have moved in the wrong direction over the last week with dinos increasing and corals being negatively impacted :(.

I did break down and purchase a microscope and confirmed at least 2 dino species, Ostreopsis and Coolia. There is another that is more oval looking than the Ostreopsis, but can't confirm it is something different. There is also what looks like another species that is very small compared to the Ostreopsis and Coolia and is very fast. I will try to post pictures of all when I get a chance for assistance in confirming my IDs.

I am now moving in the direction of a tank reset. To keep from cluttering up this thread I will create a separate thread with details of what I am doing. It will take quite a bit of time to move and treat corals to try to prevent moving dinos into the 50g cube I set up. During this I will continue to maintain nutrient levels in my main display tank. This will give this method another month or two to see what happens.
 

taricha

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Update:
Things have moved in the wrong direction over the last week with dinos increasing and corals being negatively impacted :(.

I did break down and purchase a microscope and confirmed at least 2 dino species, Ostreopsis and Coolia. There is another that is more oval looking than the Ostreopsis, but can't confirm it is something different. There is also what looks like another species that is very small compared to the Ostreopsis and Coolia and is very fast. I will try to post pictures of all when I get a chance for assistance in confirming my IDs.

I am now moving in the direction of a tank reset. To keep from cluttering up this thread I will create a separate thread with details of what I am doing. It will take quite a bit of time to move and treat corals to try to prevent moving dinos into the 50g cube I set up. During this I will continue to maintain nutrient levels in my main display tank. This will give this method another month or two to see what happens.

Thanks for reports, even bad news is good information.
Sounds like you have quite the Dino zoo going. Can't wait to see pics.

I'm not sure if I'm leaning more toward the UV being undersized at 55w on a 270 gal or that it stopped working entirely.

If you are doing a new tank reset to get a Dino free system, I think it's highly unlikely you'll succeed long term, but if you are starting up a system to seed it with healthy biodiversity to make dinos fight an uphill battle, it might be helpful.
 

m0jjen

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So, about 2.5 weeks after my sand got reintroduced i can determin that dino is back. Not that bad but im guessing it will escalate. So im at my wits end with this. My nutrients arent that low. 2.5 ppm no3 and 0.038 po4. I feed quite heavy (2-3 times a day) to maintain these values and have a big population of featherdusters, vermetids and what not. Im debating to remove my 3 litres of siporax to reduce my filtration and nutrient export and letting me feed less and still maintain nutient levels. Does this seem like a fair and reasonable course of action?
 

taricha

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Shift nutrient input away from food, and toward dosing for the time being. And yeah, I'd pull siporax for now, and many people have more success pushing P up toward 0.10 (by dosing simple inorganics)

Think about sand this way - you added a large, unoccupied substrate of available space into a system where Dino cells were still plentiful. Of course they colonized it first.
Doesn't mean can't add sand back, just that dinos will beat their competition to colonize new surfaces, at first.
 
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mcarroll

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@m0jjen what happened after post #493?

Definitely dose up as per that post and remove any other nutrient reducers you're using too, as @taricha said – start getting things moving in the right direction! :) :)

I agree on the feeding recommendation too – if you're feeding more than what consider your tank's correct, normal levels, then fall back to normal ASAP. (Do not underfeed either though.)

Feeding raises all nutrient levels, not just the deficient ones, so it doesn't help in the short term.

It's possible that more feeding and more frequent feeding could be part of your long term solution though.
 

Beardo

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Thanks for reports, even bad news is good information.
Sounds like you have quite the Dino zoo going. Can't wait to see pics.

I'm not sure if I'm leaning more toward the UV being undersized at 55w on a 270 gal or that it stopped working entirely.

If you are doing a new tank reset to get a Dino free system, I think it's highly unlikely you'll succeed long term, but if you are starting up a system to seed it with healthy biodiversity to make dinos fight an uphill battle, it might be helpful.

I'm not sure why UV hasn't been effective for me. Now, I did just pull the UV off of my main display and install it on my treatment/holding tank which is just a 20 long. No question about a 57 watt unit being underpowered on a 20.

As far as the reset; I've been spinning my wheels for far too long with nothing to show for it, except the loss of thousands of dollars worth of corals and the few I have left fading. My system is in a bad place and nothing I do seems to help long term. A fresh start to build a healthy biodiverse system is all I'm hoping to accomplish. I don't think anyone can guarantee dinos never enter their system, but having a system that can handle their introduction seems a realistic goal. I do plan on a strict coral/invert QT regimen though to help minimize their introduction.

I appreciate all the assistance I have received here.
 

m0jjen

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@m0jjen what happened after post #493?

Definitely dose up as per that post and remove any other nutrient reducers you're using too, as @taricha said – start getting things moving in the right direction! :) :)

I agree on the feeding recommendation too – if you're feeding more than what consider your tank's correct, normal levels, then fall back to normal ASAP. (Do not underfeed either though.)

Feeding raises all nutrient levels, not just the deficient ones, so it doesn't help in the short term.

It's possible that more feeding and more frequent feeding could be part of your long term solution though.


Nothing really happened. I just continued monitoring nutrients and feed like i've done the past few months. Sand went from diatom algae to dino strains. Not to bad atm just afew strains here and there but they are definitly growing and getting established. Dosed 0.02 ppm po4 and 2 ppm kno3 today and will do so daily unless i need to dose more to get a noticable raise.
 
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mcarroll

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I'm not sure if I'm leaning more toward the UV being undersized at 55w on a 270 gal or that it stopped working entirely.

I don't know what make or model @Beardo has so take this with a grain of salt, but...

I happened to be looking at the AquaUV sizing guide earlier for another thread and I bet 55w is more than fine, assuming the flow rate isn't too high or too low. Their 57-watt is rated for 350 gallons....their unit delivers an insane 90,000 µW/cm2 at 1000 GPH!!

http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/sites/default/files/brochures/UV Charts Salt and Fresh Water.pdf

(AquaUV's flow rates wouldn't necessarily be a good guideline....need the guideline from his mfg'r.)
 
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mcarroll

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Nothing really happened. I just continued monitoring nutrients and feed like i've done the past few months. Sand went from diatom algae to dino strains. Not to bad atm just afew strains here and there but they are definitly growing and getting established. Dosed 0.02 ppm po4 and 2 ppm kno3 today and will do so daily unless i need to dose more to get a noticable raise.

Then the results make sense – time to take your advantage! :)

If you have PO4 of 0.04 ppm (0.038) in the tank now, then you ought to dose 0.06 ppm at the least in order to get it caught up to 0.10 at the time of your dose.

But the reality is that you'd like ≥0.10 ppm – not ≤0.10 ppm.

So if you want to dose up to 0.15 ppm or 0.20 ppm because you think it makes sense for some reason, I'd easily support that as well. That would mean a dose of 0.11 ppm or 0.16 ppm, respectively.

Check your dose by testing every day though, so when you do finally reach ≥0.10 ppm you don't overshoot by more than your intention and instead you keep the current dose correct for maintaining ≥ 0.10 ppm.....at least until this is all just a memory. :)

Make sure to keep checking NO3 as well! You're hoping to set off a minor (and invisible) bloom of non-bacterial microbes in the tank – and they they require a steady supply! :)
 

m0jjen

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Then the results make sense – time to take your advantage! :)

If you have PO4 of 0.04 ppm (0.038) in the tank now, then you ought to dose 0.06 ppm at the least in order to get it caught up to 0.10 at the time of your dose.

But the reality is that you'd like ≥0.10 ppm – not ≤0.10 ppm.

So if you want to dose up to 0.15 ppm or 0.20 ppm because you think it makes sense for some reason, I'd easily support that as well. That would mean a dose of 0.11 ppm or 0.16 ppm, respectively.

Check your dose by testing every day though, so when you do finally reach ≥0.10 ppm you don't overshoot by more than your intention and instead you keep the current dose correct for maintaining ≥ 0.10 ppm.....at least until this is all just a memory. :)

Make sure to keep checking NO3 as well! You're hoping to set off a minor (and invisible) bloom of non-bacterial microbes in the tank – and they they require a steady supply! :)
I know, but slow and steady wins the race. Hence me starting at these doses and keep messuring to ensure i dont chock the system nor overshoot as you say. By dosing 0.02 ppm i can control it by messuring daily at the same time of the day

Also, if i end up defeting this **** I dont know if i should get more fish to maintain a hugher nutrient system / cycle in order to prevent this from reoccuring..
 

Beardo

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I don't know what make or model @Beardo has so take this with a grain of salt, but...

I happened to be looking at the AquaUV sizing guide earlier for another thread and I bet 55w is more than fine, assuming the flow rate isn't too high or too low. Their 57-watt is rated for 350 gallons....their unit delivers an insane 90,000 µW/cm2 at 1000 GPH!!

http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/sites/default/files/brochures/UV Charts Salt and Fresh Water.pdf

(AquaUV's flow rates wouldn't necessarily be a good guideline....need the guideline from his mfg'r.)

I am running the AquaUV 57 watt classic that you linked to. Mine is connected in the sump but did have it reconfigured for a time running directly from display.
 

Lowefx

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I'm not sure why UV hasn't been effective for me. Now, I did just pull the UV off of my main display and install it on my treatment/holding tank which is just a 20 long. No question about a 57 watt unit being underpowered on a 20.

As far as the reset; I've been spinning my wheels for far too long with nothing to show for it, except the loss of thousands of dollars worth of corals and the few I have left fading. My system is in a bad place and nothing I do seems to help long term. A fresh start to build a healthy biodiverse system is all I'm hoping to accomplish. I don't think anyone can guarantee dinos never enter their system, but having a system that can handle their introduction seems a realistic goal. I do plan on a strict coral/invert QT regimen though to help minimize their introduction.

I appreciate all the assistance I have received here.
I started my tank from scratch and still got dinos. Dry rock, dry sand, fresh rodi system and cycled with zeovit, and still got dinos. So if you do a full reset, you may still get the same problem if you stay ULNS from the start. It happened to me, just my 2 cents.
 

Lowefx

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I am running the AquaUV 57 watt classic that you linked to. Mine is connected in the sump but did have it reconfigured for a time running directly from display.
I am also debating on hooking up an Aqua 57w on my 120. Will it help? What's the best practice for hook up? (After overflow on drain lines, dedicated pump in sump, or between return pump and main display)
 

Beardo

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I started my tank from scratch and still got dinos. Dry rock, dry sand, fresh rodi system and cycled with zeovit, and still got dinos. So if you do a full reset, you may still get the same problem if you stay ULNS from the start. It happened to me, just my 2 cents.

Thanks. I plan to stay away from ULNS. My problems started after getting too aggressive with GFO and driving phosphates to 0, so will be more careful with nutrient levels in the future. I understand there are no guarantees.
Greatly appreciate your input.
 

OnPointCorals

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I am also debating on hooking up an Aqua 57w on my 120. Will it help? What's the best practice for hook up? (After overflow on drain lines, dedicated pump in sump, or between return pump and main display)

I suggest at least from the start to run it temporarily out of your display directly. I ran my UV from my sump initially and it didn't do much for dinos. I didn't see a noticeable reduction till I hooked my UV directly in my DT and turkey blast daily. Remember the dinos need to run through the uv to get sterilized. Within a week and half the uv in the display reduced dinos by about 85%
 

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Been following this thread for several weeks while fighting Dino's in my Red Sea Reefer 525XL. My tank has been without fish now for 40 days due to a Marine Velvet outbreak. After removing the fish my Nitrate and Phosphate plummeted to ZERO and Dino's started appearing. I've been feeding coral 4 times a week and dosing NeoPhos and NeoNitro and Nitrate and Phos are detectable now but seem to drop even after increasing my dose of NeoPhos and NeoNitro. Nitrate 2ppm And Phos .02-.03. My Protein skimmer is off and I'm not carbon dosing. I do have a Algae Turf Scrubber running but can't seem to raise my Nitrate and Phos to Mcarroll's Recommended levels. Not sure if I should turn off the Algae scrubber. Any help with the dosing of NeoPhos and NeoNitro, or ideas on how to get my numbers up would be appreciated. Thank you.
 

rockstarta78

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Been following this thread for several weeks while fighting Dino's in my Red Sea Reefer 525XL. My tank has been without fish now for 40 days due to a Marine Velvet outbreak. After removing the fish my Nitrate and Phosphate plummeted to ZERO and Dino's started appearing. I've been feeding coral 4 times a week and dosing NeoPhos and NeoNitro and Nitrate and Phos are detectable now but seem to drop even after increasing my dose of NeoPhos and NeoNitro. Nitrate 2ppm And Phos .02-.03. My Protein skimmer is off and I'm not carbon dosing. I do have a Algae Turf Scrubber running but can't seem to raise my Nitrate and Phos to Mcarroll's Recommended levels. Not sure if I should turn off the Algae scrubber. Any help with the dosing of NeoPhos and NeoNitro, or ideas on how to get my numbers up would be appreciated. Thank you.

Sadly, I know how you feel. My first question would be how much are you dosing? Does the dosing amount equate to the level you are trying to reach? Apparently your consumption rate is high which is why the NO3 and PO4 in the tank keeps dropping. Have you been able to identify your consumption rate?

This is the link I used to get an accurate measurement of how much KNO3 I need to mix to achieve 10ppm NO3 (I know that's high, and those dino bastages are PITA)
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

This is the link I use to get dosage for PO4. I am trying to maintain 0.10ppm.
http://www.seachem.com/flourish-phosporus.php

I started dosing double the amount of recommended PO4 and I am yet to reach 0.10ppm. Last night was the best result so far at 0.07ppm.

Best of luck with your battle.
 
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