Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[jolt]

Another week and still no dinos returning. Keeping N and P stable and did another water change. No additional siphoning required so far.

10 more days and still no dinos. Sorry, I did not take before pics. I can tell you that my frag racks, my frags, the rocks, and my sump were full of dinos. It was killing frags and snails. I have very good polyp extension at this point on my acropora frags.

 

[Lowefx]

how do your dinos look?

A lot worse than yours. Lol. I hope to have a UV by next week, and start dosing po4 soon too..

 

[Cscultho]

10 more days and still no dinos. Sorry, I did not take before pics. I can tell you that my frag racks, my frags, the rocks, and my sump were full of dinos. It was killing frags and snails. I have very good polyp extension at this point on my acropora frags.

How long was your battle before you gained the upper hand?

What was your recipe for success?

 

[jolt]

How long was your battle before you gained the upper hand?

What was your recipe for success?

See post 392 Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether? this thread

 

[mcarroll]

someone out there actually counting dino cells

....which is possible.

Pretty cool site I just stumbled upon:
https://www.hemocytometer.org/

Check out her Cell counting equipment essentials page – it includes some thoughtful microscope recommendations too.

...found out that they make an app to assist too:

 

[Paullawr]

....which is possible.

Pretty cool site I just stumbled upon:
https://www.hemocytometer.org/

Check out her Cell counting equipment essentials page – it includes some thoughtful microscope recommendations too.

...found out that they make an app to assist too:

Now that's what I'm talking about

 

[Paullawr]

Now imagine a sticky with the days vs cell counts vs N+P.

Once that was nailed it wouldn't be hard to start coralating different strains.

Wishful thinking maybe but could be a future project.

 

[mcarroll]

Now imagine a sticky with the days vs cell counts vs N+P.

Once that was nailed it wouldn't be hard to start coralating different strains.

Wishful thinking maybe but could be a future project.

Excellent idea.....just very time consuming....and obviously it reqiures someone with dino's.

Thankfully it doesn't seem all that expensive if you're someone who's into it....around a hundred bucks or so for the counter.

 

[Cscultho]

@mcarroll I had the LFS check my water and my #'s have finally increased after doubling my dosing.
P04 - 1.0
N03 - 20-40ppm
Alk - 10.2
Ca - 450
pH- 8.0

My assumption would be to stop dosing and monitor?

 

[Cscultho]

Any thoughts on if my sand sifting goby might be making my dino issues worse? He/she is always moving sand and I wonder if i should take it back to the fish store and get a fish that does not sift??

 

[rockstarta78]

@mcarroll I had the LFS check my water and my #'s have finally increased after doubling my dosing.
P04 - 1.0
N03 - 20-40ppm
Alk - 10.2
Ca - 450
pH- 8.0

My assumption would be to stop dosing and monitor?

I'd wait 24hrs and see where the PO4 and NO3 are and that would give you a good idea of consumption rate. Once you can narrow down the tank's actual consumption rate you can just dose enough to maintain PO4 at 0.10ppm and NO3 at 5ppm or 10ppm(max). This is what I am shooting for. Let's see where I land.

 

[rockstarta78]

Any thoughts on if my sand sifting goby might be making my dino issues worse? He/she is always moving sand and I wonder if i should take it back to the fish store and get a fish that does not sift??

That's an interesting thought. I am going to follow this question. My thought process is, (and I could be wrong) wouldn't the goby clean the dino since it's sifting the sand? and would that keep the sand bed cleaner? But interesting question though.

 

[Cscultho]

That's an interesting thought. I am going to follow this question. My thought process is, (and I could be wrong) wouldn't the goby clean the dino since it's sifting the sand? and would that keep the sand bed cleaner? But interesting question though.

Ive had the goby for a couple months now and is a great addition to the tank BUT there is always particles floating in the water. When he sifts the sand where dinos are at it makes no difference. Im wondering if the goby help create or exaggerate the issue and if i keep the sand from being stirred up will this help reduce or eliminate my dino demo??

Or is the goby eating all the good beneficial bugs that help fight dino??

where are the experts to help clear this up...

 

[Paullawr]

Ive had the goby for a couple months now and is a great addition to the tank BUT there is always particles floating in the water. When he sifts the sand where dinos are at it makes no difference. Im wondering if the goby help create or exaggerate the issue and if i keep the sand from being stirred up will this help reduce or eliminate my dino demo??

Or is the goby eating all the good beneficial bugs that help fight dino??

where are the experts to help clear this up...

I'd leave the goby be. They do eat critters in the sand, hence their name. However if you can sustain such a fish then it's clearly not impacting its environment too much.

Protests may get consumed by Copepoda though I've never witnessed predation. That's from viewing dinoflagellate under a scope and crustaceans clearly visible in many frames. Not once did a Dino get plucked!

Then again animals of every order know what's safe and what's not, so maybe they don't.

cilliates on the other hand will but usually by the time we are researching this it's too late for most natural competitors to do any lasting damage.

Still it doesn't hurt, the problem is getting them in your tank. Lottery if you get them on rock etc.

Still I digress. Yes keep goby. Sand aeration is a good thing.

 

[mcarroll]

@mcarroll I had the LFS check my water and my #'s have finally increased after doubling my dosing.
P04 - 1.0
N03 - 20-40ppm
Alk - 10.2
Ca - 450
pH- 8.0

My assumption would be to stop dosing and monitor?

Seems like you overshot on both, correct?

In that case (no typos, correct?), yes....no need to take it any further at least for now.

How are things looking today?

Ive had the goby for a couple months now and is a great addition to the tank BUT there is always particles floating in the water. When he sifts the sand where dinos are at it makes no difference. Im wondering if the goby help create or exaggerate the issue and if i keep the sand from being stirred up will this help reduce or eliminate my dino demo??

Or is the goby eating all the good beneficial bugs that help fight dino??

where are the experts to help clear this up...

He is undoubtedly having an effect since dino cysts and remnants of old blooms will tend to settle into the sand, but it's hard to guess whether it's a net-positive or net-negative thing.

It could mean that the cysts are "re-dosing" and infecting the tank every time he browses. But it also means that it's another chance for cysts and remnants to be consumed and digested (toxins are a worry!!!), skimmed or gravel-vac'd out, etc. The sand is a protective environment for them....blast em out!

The last angle is that those fish seem to be way to big for most tanks they get added to.....sifting the sand is never sufficient in a home tank so they often starve out. If you have a large tank with an unusually large percentage of sand bed area.

There are some serious positives and negatives to consider, but you'd have to decide how much they might apply in your case.

 

[Cscultho]

Seems like you overshot on both, correct?

In that case (no typos, correct?), yes....no need to take it any further at least for now.

How are things looking today?



He is undoubtedly having an effect since dino cysts and remnants of old blooms will tend to settle into the sand, but it's hard to guess whether it's a net-positive or net-negative thing.

It could mean that the cysts are "re-dosing" and infecting the tank every time he browses. But it also means that it's another chance for cysts and remnants to be consumed and digested (toxins are a worry!!!), skimmed or gravel-vac'd out, etc. The sand is a protective environment for them....blast em out!

The last angle is that those fish seem to be way to big for most tanks they get added to.....sifting the sand is never sufficient in a home tank so they often starve out. If you have a large tank with an unusually large percentage of sand bed area.

There are some serious positives and negatives to consider, but you'd have to decide how much they might apply in your case.

No typos...i did over shoot.

The tank looks slightly better but there is a long ways to go. My next steps will be to get the Po4 and N03 down to lower levels and hope to ride it out and hope it slowly melts away....

 

[mcarroll]

No typos...i did over shoot.

The tank looks slightly better but there is a long ways to go. My next steps will be to get the Po4 and N03 down to lower levels and hope to ride it out and hope it slowly melts away....

Don't sweat it if the tank isn't giving you any bad feed back....just let levels settle on their own without help.

Try to pay attention to how fast each one drops relative to the other.

 

[The new fish on the block]

+1


Not the end of the world though! Skip back to post #1...do a little reading on those links...do some testing and post your tank's nitrate and phosphate history. If you're carbon dosing or doing anything else special to reduce nutrients – stop.

Don't forget to post your N and P test results!

Nitrate and Phosphate are both zero

 

[landlubber]

@taricha @mcarroll i've read probably a hundred pages of threads on r2r regarding dinos and how to eradicate them but upon identification of the strain i'm fighting (Prorocentrum) i haven't come across anybody battling the same variety.
i'm in the early stages of both using uv and getting more control over my nutrients which i'm certain have been lower than ideal. my question is will uv even have an effect on these or is this going to be a war strictly won via elevated nitrate and phosphate?

 

[The new fish on the block]

I should also note that this outbreak occurred after treating the tank with fluconozole for bryopsis and Hair algae