Anyone detect clear evidence of a fluoride effect?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What’s the reason you are asking about Flouride specifically?

Someone asked me to post a poll to help gather opinions.

I’ve also started to gather the claims from supplement makers to see if they agree at all on what it is supposed to do.

 

[Slocke]

Edit: Joke, never ever mess with HF

In what form is fluoride usually dosed? I may have several thousand gallons of Hydrogen Fluoride I’m trying to get rid of…
Jk I’m sending it to Canada for deep well injection but am honestly intrigued.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In what form is fluoride usually dosed? I may have several thousand gallons of Hydrogen Fluoride I’m trying to get rid of…
Jk I’m sending it to Canada for deep well injection but am honestly intrigued.

I only recommend sodium fluoride. I understand it’s a joke, but home users should not ever handle hydrogen fluoride. It is very dangerous and causes burns that are very hard to heal.

CDC | Facts About Hydrogen Fluoride (Hydrofluoric Acid)

Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

emergency.cdc.gov

 

[Slocke]

I only recommend sodium fluoride. I understand it’s a joke, but home users should not ever handle hydrogen fluoride. It is very dangerous and causes burns that are very hard to heal.

CDC | Facts About Hydrogen Fluoride (Hydrofluoric Acid)

Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

emergency.cdc.gov

Yes, that’s why I wanted to ask the question. Fluoride kind of scares me now. I will edit to make that more clear.

We have both a multirae and SPM flex running and level B hazmat before we even open a drum. It’s why I know how dangerous fluoride is and why my brain made the connection. I am cleaning up after a very badly run electroplater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not A. Specieosa like I was thinking but this should work.

July 8th about 1 week of starting.

Sept 1 about 2 months into it.

Dosing what product?

 

[cilyjr]

I posted this in my first post...

I've been curious about this.

I started a small dose of a flouride additive 2 months ago tomorrow. With no noticable changes to date. I will continue through the 2nd bottle and will make reports here.

As I'm basically on auto pilot there no other significant changes to the running of the system with the exception of switching from an icecap kalk stirrer to the Avast kalk stirrer but the dosage did not change.

320gallon display, 75 gallon sump, 30 gallon frag. All plumbed together.
System is about 400 gallons of actual water.
(Do we want another tank info here?)

Dosing 30 drops (from supplied dropper) of this.
I will find out what the ml is today. This product.
ME flouride.


Before beginning dosing.

1 month in

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I posted this in my first post...

Thanks. It seems to also include potassium. Did you monitor potassium?

 

[Reefahholic]

Thanks. It seems to also include potassium. Did you monitor potassium?

ME Fluoride Concentrate 2 oz​

Ingredients: Reverse Osmosis/DI Water, Sodium fluoride, Potassium fluoride

Concentration: 25,000 ppm

Maintenance Dose: 2-4 drops in a 100 L (26 gl) system one to two times per week

F is a minor element in seawater utilized by corals and other tank inhabitants. Depletion can slow growth and coloration in corals. Fluoride is instrumental in coral calcification and calcium carbonate development. F also aids in Zooxanthellae coloration. Maintain seawater levels of 1.3 ppm. Test appropriately.




I wonder how much potassium that actually has in it. I bet it’s very minimal.

@cilyjr did your potassium increase at all?

 

[FranklinDattein]

For many years, I've been adding a traditional mix of A (strontium and barium), B (iron, zinc, copper, manganese, chromium, cobalt, and nickel), and C (potassium iodide and sodium fluoride) to Randy's recipe #1 to create a complete Balling-style solution. However, once the tanks reached an overgrown state, ICP tests consistently indicated low levels of boron and fluoride.

Research suggested that boron and fluoride are both necessary for stabilizing iodine, so I began dosing both separately in addition to the standard Balling recipe. I monitored this SPS+Zoa-dominated system closely through three stages of fluoride dosing: 1. No dosing; 2. Dosing to maintain ionic balance (Balling); and 3. Supplementing independently based on ICP results to consistently maintain seawater levels.

As is often the case when experimenting with trace elements, I didn't notice any significant changes across the different phases. The coral looked good before and appears slightly better now, but I can't conclusively attribute this improvement to fluoride alone. While I might say there's been a slight enhancement in color, that could just be wishful thinking.

My primary goal was to maintain a stable iodine level to prevent zoa melt. I haven't lost a zoa in more than two years, which is great. But this could just as easily be due to new predatory fish, like Copperband and wrasses, which might help control pests.

As many experienced hobbits, I've encountered many people who swear by whatever solution they are currently dosing. But when you dig deeper into the details, it often becomes clear that many other changes were made simultaneously, making it virtually impossible to correlate cause and effect.


I am curious to see if a trend emerges from this thread...

 

[BeanAnimal]

@cilyjr very nice color improvement!

The saturation of the entire lower photo is higher. Stuff like this can be very misleading. It will be interesting to see if he can setup to do the same exact photo at the same time. It weeks apart.

 

[cilyjr]

The saturation of the entire lower photo is higher. Stuff like this can be very misleading. It will be interesting to see if he can setup to do the same exact photo at the same time. It weeks apart.

Both of these photos were completely unedited. They were shot with a pixel 7 pro with an orphek orange lens.

 

[cilyjr]

wonder how much potassium that actually has in it. I bet it’s very minimal.

@cilyjr did your potassium increase at all?

The 2nd Triton test will be here any day then I will send it out.

The one from Feb shows this for K

 

[cilyjr]

Not A. Specieosa like I was thinking but this should work.

July 8th about 1 week of starting.

Sept 1 about 2 months into it.

I am skeptical of any real significant changes with the fluoride dosing.

I'd also like to make it clear that the first photo from back in july was just one that I happened to have. I was not at that time thinking let's do a photographic investigation.

Going forward, I will make more of an effort to get a picture that is under the same lighting conditions.

 

[Reefahholic]

The saturation of the entire lower photo is higher. Stuff like this can be very misleading. It will be interesting to see if he can setup to do the same exact photo at the same time. It weeks apart.

It doesn’t look too different to me, but I agree that taking the same photo, at same time, several weeks apart is best way to appreciate a good color difference.

 

[blstravler]

I’ve been doing ATI ICP test monthly for a long time now. I used to wait until I got the results and dosed what was needed. After a while I saw a clear trend of always having to dose the same things so I just broke the average down into a weekly dose and as part of that I’ve been dosing 20ml of ATI Fluorine weekly. That is along with other elements I saw in the trend. I can say I have seen color improvement but I can’t say it’s because of just the Fluorine. As it’s only part of what I’m adding weekly. Though oddly enough since dosing these elements I have seen a big uptick in strontium usage and now need to dose it and that’s a first for me.

 

[Reefahholic]

The 2nd Triton test will be here any day then I will send it out.

The one from Feb shows this for K

February is a long way from September, so I guess that will not be a good indicator of the K level.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’ve been doing ATI ICP test monthly for a long time now. I used to wait until I got the results and dosed what was needed. After a while I saw a clear trend of always having to dose the same things so I just broke the average down into a weekly dose and as part of that I’ve been dosing 20ml of ATI Fluorine weekly. That is along with other elements I saw in the trend. I can say I have seen color improvement but I can’t say it’s because of just the Fluorine. As it’s only part of what I’m adding weekly. Though oddly enough since dosing these elements I have seen a big uptick in strontium usage and now need to dose it and that’s a first for me.

Same here…my Sr increased a lot. Acro’s really seem to like it.

 

[Reefahholic]

I am skeptical of any real significant changes with the fluoride dosing.

I'd also like to make it clear that the first photo from back in july was just one that I happened to have. I was not at that time thinking let's do a photographic investigation.

Going forward, I will make more of an effort to get a picture that is under the same lighting conditions.

Well, I appreciate your efforts. There’s been many other anecdotal reports just like this.

Looking forward to future pics with more details and precise timing.

 

[Reefahholic]

Skeptical or not, also note the color of the Monti. Something had a nice impact on color.

 

[cilyjr]

Skeptical or not, also note the color of the Monti. Something had a nice impact on color.

Maybe. I mean I did buy it to see if something would happen. When you looked day to day, it is sometimes hard to see changes.

It will be fun to help, I am no scientist. So I will kind of let you guys make suggestions.

I typically only do a Triton test a couple of times a year. That is why the last one is from February. I like to use them to get a rough idea of what is happening. I am not a person who's ever going to dose a thousand things.

I tend to be more of a just feed heavy and things tend to work out. That's been working for me for the last 20 or so years.