I cannot raise my PH, need advice please

[Spare time]

Do they RTN, STN, bleach, etc.? How they died is a big help to knowing why they died.

 

[00W]

Ok here I go.
I'm a huge believer that ph and alk are extremely important, whether you have softies or higher end stuff.
Your ph isn't that low but if you're concerned and would like it up here's a few things.
You mentioned a skimmer but not what size. With CO2 not an issue in that room, an oversized skimmer should easily raise your ph. Don't know what you are running. I added another skimmer to my sump and my ph went from 7.96 to 8.11.
I have no idea what to say about all you are adding to your tank. I'm not the coral expert in any way but that's a long list and I might stop it all, do a water change and add one thing at a time and see if anything is affecting your ph.
Might be surprised.
I recently switched from a high alk salt to red sea blue bucket and low and behold my alk is much more stable, along with my ph.
These are just observations from my own experience and may not apply.
Aeration.
Not just water movement but aeration.
Try running an airstone in the back chamber.
Test.
See what it says.
I have no idea why you carbon dose at all your overall levels are really low. Maybe too low. That will lower ph too.
I don't think your tank is young at all and your ph seems totally normal to me.
What is your water change schedule?
You didn't mention if you do them or not.
You mentioned alk is 9.4 but not what daily consumption is. If you lowered it to say, 7.5 or 8,you could supplement with just an alk only supplement which most tend to raise ph too and keep it up for a few days where in turn you can dose again.
I don't think ph is your problem but raising it won't hurt. 8.3 is the ideal with many/most of us never reaching that. If I hit 8.21 in the afternoon I throw a party.
Like I said, just a mediocrereefer, I'm far from the coral expert, have the perfect tank or a professional reefer of any kind
Just my 2 cents.
Would love to see pictures of your tank.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

IMHO your PH is fine. Not worth "chasing". Many successful tanks run on your PH. Make sure there's proper flow, keep CO2 in the room managed and have proper par. You are dosing 3 part with all of those trace elements. I don't know why unless it's something like AFR or are getting test that shows your lacking those. In a 25 gallon system water changes will handle your trace elements. I have a successful mixed reef and up until just a month or two ago was using only AFR and water changes. 6 months before that just water changes and BRS 2 part. It's a 100 gallon system. I'm just now starting to carbon dose and use AB+. Both only 1/4 of the recommended dosing.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Ps. Don't dose anything for ph

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Which sps have you tried? Also again, I am not sure which alk supplement you are using but some have a greater alk boost. I really don't think the pH is the issue though.

Three-part Set

Super charge your reef's growth with our three-part supplement line! NEW: Try our brand new all-in-three blend! This blend includes fluoride, bromine, calcium, chrome, cobalt, manganese, copper, nickel, zinc, barium, iron, potassium, iodide, and magnesium. Why should you buy a three-part instead...

notafeesh.com

I think this is what he is using

 

[Liam's tank]

Do they RTN, STN, bleach, etc.? How they died is a big help to knowing why they died.

The stylo's & birds nest STN, the others slowly reseeded/faded away.

 

[Liam's tank]

Three-part Set

Super charge your reef's growth with our three-part supplement line! NEW: Try our brand new all-in-three blend! This blend includes fluoride, bromine, calcium, chrome, cobalt, manganese, copper, nickel, zinc, barium, iron, potassium, iodide, and magnesium. Why should you buy a three-part instead...

notafeesh.com

I think this is what he is using

Three-part Set

Super charge your reef's growth with our three-part supplement line! NEW: Try our brand new all-in-three blend! This blend includes fluoride, bromine, calcium, chrome, cobalt, manganese, copper, nickel, zinc, barium, iron, potassium, iodide, and magnesium. Why should you buy a three-part instead...

notafeesh.com

I think this is what he is using

yes, that's what I'm using

 

[Liam's tank]

Ok here I go.
I'm a huge believer that ph and alk are extremely important, whether you have softies or higher end stuff.
Your ph isn't that low but if you're concerned and would like it up here's a few things.
You mentioned a skimmer but not what size. With CO2 not an issue in that room, an oversized skimmer should easily raise your ph. Don't know what you are running. I added another skimmer to my sump and my ph went from 7.96 to 8.11.
I have no idea what to say about all you are adding to your tank. I'm not the coral expert in any way but that's a long list and I might stop it all, do a water change and add one thing at a time and see if anything is affecting your ph.
Might be surprised.
I recently switched from a high alk salt to red sea blue bucket and low and behold my alk is much more stable, along with my ph.
These are just observations from my own experience and may not apply.
Aeration.
Not just water movement but aeration.
Try running an airstone in the back chamber.
Test.
See what it says.
I have no idea why you carbon dose at all your overall levels are really low. Maybe too low. That will lower ph too.
I don't think your tank is young at all and your ph seems totally normal to me.
What is your water change schedule?
You didn't mention if you do them or not.
You mentioned alk is 9.4 but not what daily consumption is. If you lowered it to say, 7.5 or 8,you could supplement with just an alk only supplement which most tend to raise ph too and keep it up for a few days where in turn you can dose again.
I don't think ph is your problem but raising it won't hurt. 8.3 is the ideal with many/most of us never reaching that. If I hit 8.21 in the afternoon I throw a party.
Like I said, just a mediocrereefer, I'm far from the coral expert, have the perfect tank or a professional reefer of any kind
Just my 2 cents.
Would love to see pictures of your tank.

thank you for taking the time to respond, I'm leaving for work but will respond in more detail tonight!

 

[Liam's tank]

Ok here I go.
I'm a huge believer that ph and alk are extremely important, whether you have softies or higher end stuff.
Your ph isn't that low but if you're concerned and would like it up here's a few things.
You mentioned a skimmer but not what size. With CO2 not an issue in that room, an oversized skimmer should easily raise your ph. Don't know what you are running. I added another skimmer to my sump and my ph went from 7.96 to 8.11.
I have no idea what to say about all you are adding to your tank. I'm not the coral expert in any way but that's a long list and I might stop it all, do a water change and add one thing at a time and see if anything is affecting your ph.
Might be surprised.
I recently switched from a high alk salt to red sea blue bucket and low and behold my alk is much more stable, along with my ph.
These are just observations from my own experience and may not apply.
Aeration.
Not just water movement but aeration.
Try running an airstone in the back chamber.
Test.
See what it says.
I have no idea why you carbon dose at all your overall levels are really low. Maybe too low. That will lower ph too.
I don't think your tank is young at all and your ph seems totally normal to me.
What is your water change schedule?
You didn't mention if you do them or not.
You mentioned alk is 9.4 but not what daily consumption is. If you lowered it to say, 7.5 or 8,you could supplement with just an alk only supplement which most tend to raise ph too and keep it up for a few days where in turn you can dose again.
I don't think ph is your problem but raising it won't hurt. 8.3 is the ideal with many/most of us never reaching that. If I hit 8.21 in the afternoon I throw a party.
Like I said, just a mediocrereefer, I'm far from the coral expert, have the perfect tank or a professional reefer of any kind
Just my 2 cents.
Would love to see pictures of your tank.

The skimmer is a Bubble Magus nano, it's working very well in one of the back chambers.
I do a 10-15% wc weekly.
Salt is Tropic Marin Pro Reef.
I was dosing AFR after getting my alk & cal numbers where I wanted them but saw no noticeable difference after about 4 months of dosing.
I also tried AB+ but again no real difference.
The corals were showing little to no growth over the course of 6 months. Between that and all the different corals that have died I decided to add the skimmer & switch from AFR to the three part I am dosing now.
Within a few weeks I saw a big difference in the corals & now after about 5 weeks with these changes the corals are growing like crazy.
I'm very happy with the three part but it has not solved my low PH issue. It has also brought great stability to the tank; my numbers are consistent.
The big unanswered question is why I can't keep any acros or other SPS alive? The only thing I could think of was the low PH.

 

[00W]

The skimmer is a Bubble Magus nano, it's working very well in one of the back chambers.
I do a 10-15% wc weekly.
Salt is Tropic Marin Pro Reef.
I was dosing AFR after getting my alk & cal numbers where I wanted them but saw no noticeable difference after about 4 months of dosing.
I also tried AB+ but again no real difference.
The corals were showing little to no growth over the course of 6 months. Between that and all the different corals that have died I decided to add the skimmer & switch from AFR to the three part I am dosing now.
Within a few weeks I saw a big difference in the corals & now after about 5 weeks with these changes the corals are growing like crazy.
I'm very happy with the three part but it has not solved my low PH issue. It has also brought great stability to the tank; my numbers are consistent.
The big unanswered question is why I can't keep any acros or other SPS alive? The only thing I could think of was the low PH.

Tank looks awesome!
Sounds like you are on the right track.
I would hold steady, keep doing what you're doing and take it slow.
Maybe add one coral at a time, make sure your flow is really good.
How are you measuring ph?
You may have mentioned it but I'm old. Like I said, I think your ph is just fine, husbandry looks good.
I'd try either lowering alk and dosing just alk, slowly or jamming the largest skimmer possible in that back chamber.
You know where to find me.
Keep in touch.
Joel

 

[Liam's tank]

The skimmer is a Bubble Magus nano, it's working very well in one of the back chambers.
I do a 10-15% wc weekly.
Salt is Tropic Marin Pro Reef.
I was dosing AFR after getting my alk & cal numbers where I wanted them but saw no noticeable difference after about 4 months of dosing.
I also tried AB+ but again no real difference.
The corals were showing little to no growth over the course of 6 months. Between that and all the different corals that have died I decided to add the skimmer & switch from AFR to the three part I am dosing now.
Within a few weeks I saw a big difference in the corals & now after about 5 weeks with these changes the corals are growing like crazy.
I'm very happy with the three part but it has not solved my low PH issue. It has also brought great stability to the tank; my numbers are consistent.
The big unanswered question is why I can't keep any acros or other SPS alive? The only thing I could think of was the low PH.

 

[Liam's tank]

Tank looks awesome!
Sounds like you are on the right track.
I would hold steady, keep doing what you're doing and take it slow.
Maybe add one coral at a time, make sure your flow is really good.
How are you measuring ph?
You may have mentioned it but I'm old. Like I said, I think your ph is just fine, husbandry looks good.
I'd try either lowering alk and dosing just alk, slowly or jamming the largest skimmer possible in that back chamber.
You know where to find me.
Keep in touch.
Joel

Hanna PH tester

 

[00W]

Yep looking good dude!
Stay the course, don't overcomplicate things!

 

[SliceGolfer]

I see the alkalinity supplement you dose contains sodium hydroxide, which should have a measurable impact on pH. What quantity and how often are you dosing this? Are the doses spread out, or all at once?

 

[DanyL]

Your PH is fine, that’s not the cause, nor the age of the tank.

You said your numbers are stable, if so, than it isn’t that either.

From here I would go to the remaining usual suspects:
- Not enough lighting
- Not enough flow
- improper acclimation

I never ran AI primes, so I can’t really comment on them, but I do know that they are weak, although the tank is also shallow.
Measuring PAR would be the best to ensure everything is alright. Remember that LPS can thrive in far less than what SPS requires.

Given that your Zoas are placed in close proximity to your wave makers, make me believe that it isn’t nearly enough flow for SPS, so I would put more weight on this.

And finally, improper acclimation - in addition to light acclimation, it is also importabt to do temperature acclimation as well if the difference is significant, otherwise it may shock the corals, and after a few days to a week they’ll STN, or RTN in the worst case. Harsh dips can cause issues as well.

Another point, you mentioned that you also tried Leptostrea and Cyphastrea - while they may reassemble SPS, these are in fact LPS.
And they do like lower light than other LPS, perhaps you them in too much light, or it was improper acclimation, which would correlate with the failed introduction of your other corals.

 

[Liam's tank]

I see the alkalinity supplement you dose contains sodium hydroxide, which should have a measurable impact on pH. What quantity and how often are you dosing this? Are the doses spread out, or all at once?

That is correct, it is one of the main reasons I started with that three part, I really thought it would give my ph the boost I am looking for.
I dose 1ml at the top of the hour at midnight, 4:00am, 8:00am, & noon, then 2ml at 1:00 & 2:00pm, then back to 1ml at 3:00 & 4:00 & 6:00pm. Then nothing till midnight when it starts all over again.
So 11ml total per day.

Your PH is fine, that’s not the cause, nor the age of the tank.

You said your numbers are stable, if so, than it isn’t that either.

From here I would go to the remaining usual suspects:
- Not enough lighting
- Not enough flow
- improper acclimation

I never ran AI primes, so I can’t really comment on them, but I do know that they are weak, although the tank is also shallow.
Measuring PAR would be the best to ensure everything is alright. Remember that LPS can thrive in far less than what SPS requires.

Given that your Zoas are placed in close proximity to your wave makers, make me believe that it isn’t nearly enough flow for SPS, so I would put more weight on this.

And finally, improper acclimation - in addition to light acclimation, it is also importabt to do temperature acclimation as well if the difference is significant, otherwise it may shock the corals, and after a few days to a week they’ll STN, or RTN in the worst case. Harsh dips can cause issues as well.

Another point, you mentioned that you also tried Leptostrea and Cyphastrea - while they may reassemble SPS, these are in fact LPS.
And they do like lower light than other LPS, perhaps you them in too much light, or it was improper acclimation, which would correlate with the failed introduction of your other corals.

Thank you for responding, I'm pretty confident the par is not the issue, Flow may be an issue, however the last stylo I tried I had it in very high flow, I'm very careful with my acclimation process, I will drip acclimate for approximately 30minutes. I always start new corals on the sand bed or just off and move slowly up to the final placement over a three week period.
The leptostrea and cyphastrea were both on rocks on the sand bed in low light.

 

[CHSUB]

My tank is a 25 gal lagoon, live rock & sand, 14 months young. I have a few torches, a duncan, frogspawn, several zoa colonies & several other LPS. I have NO success with SPS. My PH is 7.8 in the morning when the lights are off, and is 8.1 at night with lights at their peak. Alk is 9.4, cal 440, phos 0.1, nitrate 10 to 15, SG 1.026, temp 78, I'm dosing a three-part blend that includes:
Fluoride, bromine, calcium, chrome, Colbalt, manganese, copper, nickel, zinc, barium, iron, potassium, iodide, & magnesium.
The three part includes: 1- alkalinity supplement
2-Calcium chloride with trace element supplement & carbon dosing source
3-Magnesium supplement ( ratio of MgSO4 & MgCL2, same as natural sea water.)
I'm dosing all 3 equally at 11ml daily spread out over 24 hours.
I have a skimmer running, my filtration is just filter floss in both caddies with 1/4 cup of activated carbon in one of the caddies, & obviously the live rock.
I purchased a CO2 monitor just to be sure that I didn't have a problem there, I didn't think I would, I live in a very old drafty house. The CO2 is fairly consistent at 405ppm.
What can I do to get my PH up to 8.1 at the low point & 8.4 at the high point?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

What source are you getting your sps from? Captive grown would give you your best chance. No3 and po4 that high would kill wild or marine cultured sps corals. If it is not a trusted source some sellers chop colonies up into frags and sell as aquacultured. If everything else fails lower your inorganic nutrients, only sps corals that can tolerate levels that high are tank raised.

 

[Liam's tank]

What source are you getting your sps from? Captive grown would give you your best chance. No3 and po4 that high would kill wild or marine cultured sps corals. If it is not a trusted source some sellers chop colonies up into frags and sell as aquacultured. If everything else fails lower your inorganic nutrients, only sps corals that can tolerate levels that high are tank raised.

last ones I got were from Tidal Gardens

 

[DanyL]

That is correct, it is one of the main reasons I started with that three part, I really thought it would give my ph the boost I am looking for.
I dose 1ml at the top of the hour at midnight, 4:00am, 8:00am, & noon, then 2ml at 1:00 & 2:00pm, then back to 1ml at 3:00 & 4:00 & 6:00pm. Then nothing till midnight when it starts all over again.
So 11ml total per day.

Thank you for responding, I'm pretty confident the par is not the issue, Flow may be an issue, however the last stylo I tried I had it in very high flow, I'm very careful with my acclimation process, I will drip acclimate for approximately 30minutes. I always start new corals on the sand bed or just off and move slowly up to the final placement over a three week period.
The leptostrea and cyphastrea were both on rocks on the sand bed in low light.

I wouldn’t be as confident on your lighting without testing it. Currently, you don’t know how much PAR the new frags receive when you place them lower for light acclimation, nor do you know what is your target.

Experienced reefers can tell simply by looking at the corals and adjust, but given that you have less then successful experience so far - I would highly recommend to cross that option early on, and also benefit from it in the future, making it far easier for you to place corals without guessing.

Can you elaborate more on how the frags died?
How often do you test your alkalinity?
Is the temperature stable across the day?

 

[CHSUB]

last ones I got were from Tidal Gardens

Although I have never purchased from them they seem like a trusted source. I have seen there grow out tanks on youtube and they look very clean with few fish. I would suggested lowering your no3 and po4.