I cannot raise my PH, need advice please

[Liam's tank]

I wouldn’t be as confident on your lighting without testing it. Currently, you don’t know how much PAR the new frags receive when you place them lower for light acclimation, nor do you know what is your target.

Experienced reefers can tell simply by looking at the corals and adjust, but given that you have less then successful experience so far - I would highly recommend to cross that option early on, and also benefit from it in the future, making it far easier for you to place corals without guessing.

Can you elaborate more on how the frags died?
How often do you test your alkalinity?
Is the temperature stable across the day?

The stylos STN, the pink birds-nest-seriatopora STN, Fireworks Psammocora slowly receded until it was gone, Jack-o-lantern Leptoseris I actually purchased on 4/19/24 and it is still alive but has been SLOWLY dying for almost 5 months now. The Cyphastrea also very slowly dyed.
My temp is 78 using the IM Helio PTC Titanium heating system. I've never had it move off of the 78 degrees.
I was testing my alkalinity daily when I started dosing the three part. once it reached 9.4 and stayed there I moved to testing once a week. It has remained at 9.4 for about a month now.

 

[Liam's tank]

I wouldn’t be as confident on your lighting without testing it. Currently, you don’t know how much PAR the new frags receive when you place them lower for light acclimation, nor do you know what is your target.

Experienced reefers can tell simply by looking at the corals and adjust, but given that you have less then successful experience so far - I would highly recommend to cross that option early on, and also benefit from it in the future, making it far easier for you to place corals without guessing.

Can you elaborate more on how the frags died?
How often do you test your alkalinity?
Is the temperature stable across the day?

Something interesting (and one of the reasons I felt the tank was ready for SPS) was an SPS hitchhiked in on my live rock. It's an Oculina Robusta and it has been looking fantastic for the almost 15 months this tank has been set up.

 

[Pod_01]

I'm very careful with my acclimation process, I will drip acclimate for approximately 30minutes.

Just a suggestion, I find that if I float the bag for 15 minutes and just put the corals in display I have the least amount of problems. Especially if the source is reliable.

I tried different methods even drip acclimating and had issues with coral survival.

 

[jimfish98]

I would consider adding an air stone. I am playing around with my Ph since it always runs low. My house CO2 levels are around 500 in the morning and build up to near 800ppm by end of the work day (home office tank). I recently added an air stone to my sump to pump O2 in, lowering CO2 levels, and allowing more breaks at the surface for degassing. I am only a few days in and I am seeing a .13 increase in Ph during both lights out and lights on phases. Will also be testing splitting that air to two stones in the sump to create surface tension breaks in multiple locations to hopefully degas more CO2. I figure for the $25 pump, air line, and stones it is far cheaper than changing out CO2 scrubber media all the time, although I may go that route at some point regardless to help get my system above 8.0.

 

[GARRIGA]

Since room co2 not a concern then algae scrubber or Fuge might be best solution barring dosing more chemicals such as kalk or resorting to sodium hydroxide. I'd rather not mess with hydroxide for safety concerns to self and tank with latter due to an overdose.

Algae easy enough to house and pH could be controlled on the upper end by pegging it to pH and turning lights there off when exceeding 8.4. Main consequence being more iron and other trace having increased consumption. Might also see issues with bottoming out nutrients which could be mitigated by more frequent pruning, less light duration and/or intensity. Could also just overfeed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would consider adding an air stone. I am playing around with my Ph since it always runs low. My house CO2 levels are around 500 in the morning and build up to near 800ppm by end of the work day (home office tank). I recently added an air stone to my sump to pump O2 in, lowering CO2 levels, and allowing more breaks at the surface for degassing. I am only a few days in and I am seeing a .13 increase in Ph during both lights out and lights on phases. Will also be testing splitting that air to two stones in the sump to create surface tension breaks in multiple locations to hopefully degas more CO2. I figure for the $25 pump, air line, and stones it is far cheaper than changing out CO2 scrubber media all the time, although I may go that route at some point regardless to help get my system above 8.0.

Aeration with high CO2 air (800 ppm) will tend to lower pH, especially late in the light cycle when CO2 is lowest in the tank and highest in your home.

 

[jimfish98]

Aeration with high CO2 air (800 ppm) will tend to lower pH, especially late in the light cycle when CO2 is lowest in the tank and highest in your home.

Should you tell my tank or should I? Added the air stone 9/2 when I did my water change and its been holding higher since. Going to wait and watch over time but thus far it's been helping.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Should you tell my tank or should I? Added the air stone 9/2 when I did my water change and its been holding higher since. Going to wait and watch over time but thus far it's been helping.

lol

Might be worth having a sit down talk with it and explain to it that you want it to be keeping a higher pH.

Your pH is extremely low for your air CO2 levels. Most tanks are not nearly so low unless they are in very high CO2 environments.

If the pH is below 8.1 at 400 ppm or below 7.8 at 800 ppm, aeration will raise the pH. Yours in in that category.

If the pH is above pH 8.2 at 400 ppm, or above pH 7.9 at 800 ppm CO2, aeration will lower the pH.

FWIW, if your tank does get to pH 8.0, your aeration will be keeping a lid on the pH rise near the end of the day..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This procedure shows how to tell if aeration alone, or only aeration with lower CO2 air will raise pH:

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

My tank is a 25 gal lagoon, live rock & sand, 14 months young. I have a few torches, a duncan, frogspawn, several zoa colonies & several other LPS. I have NO success with SPS. My PH is 7.8 in the morning when the lights are off, and is 8.1 at night with lights at their peak. Alk is 9.4, cal 440, phos 0.1, nitrate 10 to 15, SG 1.026, temp 78, I'm dosing a three-part blend that includes:
Fluoride, bromine, calcium, chrome, Colbalt, manganese, copper, nickel, zinc, barium, iron, potassium, iodide, & magnesium.
The three part includes: 1- alkalinity supplement
2-Calcium chloride with trace element supplement & carbon dosing source
3-Magnesium supplement ( ratio of MgSO4 & MgCL2, same as natural sea water.)
I'm dosing all 3 equally at 11ml daily spread out over 24 hours.
I have a skimmer running, my filtration is just filter floss in both caddies with 1/4 cup of activated carbon in one of the caddies, & obviously the live rock.
I purchased a CO2 monitor just to be sure that I didn't have a problem there, I didn't think I would, I live in a very old drafty house. The CO2 is fairly consistent at 405ppm.
What can I do to get my PH up to 8.1 at the low point & 8.4 at the high point?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

I got a co2 scrubber and it brought my ph from 7.9 to 8.2 or 8.3. It was burning through the entire media in a week. THEN, I recirculated it through the lid and a water catching attachment from FishofHex.com and it gets up to 8.5 and the media lasts a month or more.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Back to the OP, just to be clear, no amount of aeration with untreated air, at an alkalinity of 9 dKH, will raise the pH to his goal of pH 8.4 at peak. Aeration with any indoor or outside air at that alk will not raise pH above about 8.2.

 

[jimfish98]

lol

Might be worth having a sit down talk with it and explain to it that you want it to be keeping a higher pH.

Your pH is extremely low for your air CO2 levels. Most tanks are not nearly so low unless they are in very high CO2 environments.

If the pH is below 8.1 at 400 ppm or below 7.8 at 800 ppm, aeration will raise the pH. Yours in in that category.

If the pH is above pH 8.2 at 400 ppm, or above pH 7.9 at 800 ppm CO2, aeration will lower the pH.

FWIW, if your tank does get to pH 8.0, your aeration will be keeping a lid on the pH rise near the end of the day..

It is all an experiment at this point. The water change obviously jumped my PH a bit, but it was starting from a low point. If I can get it up higher now with the air stone, the next water change should be able to raise it closer to 8 since the starting point is higher. Will then see what the air stone does at that point. If it holds stable at a higher Ph, then maybe the next water change will raise it more. Again watch the stone. I wouldn't be shocked if I have to switch from air stone to a CO2 scrubber on the skimmer at some point but right now playing with thoughts and have a closet full of fresh and saltwater stuff to use for free as I play around.

I keep 40g of RODI at the ready in a container with a lid, may be an issue as well. When I bring some in for the next water change I will add an air stone while it temperature acclimates over night and while mixing. See if that makes a difference as well. Half the joy of this hobby is the tinkering.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is all an experiment at this point

Well, it's an experiment with known limitations based on established science.

Water changes alone can only impact pH for more than a period of hours if they change the alk substantially.

 

[graihg]

PS the UV and Violet that high will burn the diodes and melt the lense eventually.

Is this true?? I have 3 AI prime 32 HDs with the UV and Violet at 115% for 11months now....

 

[bubbgee]

I had a similar issue. I traced it down to carbon dosing as well. The correct dosing of 3 part (and I am using the same one) should be able to bump pH slowly up to desired range. I am just watching my ALK right now so it doesn't go crazy

 

[Spare time]

Is this true?? I have 3 AI prime 32 HDs with the UV and Violet at 115% for 11months now....

It seems to be a common occurrence when UV and Violet are high (though particularly the UV). Maybe if you clean the filter for the fan frequently enough it won't happen but its happened to 3 primes I used and 1 at a store I worked at that was used on a display.

 

[graihg]

It seems to be a common occurrence when UV and Violet are high (though particularly the UV). Maybe if you clean the filter for the fan frequently enough it won't happen but its happened to 3 primes I used and 1 at a store I worked at that was used on a display.

Aaaah. Good to know. I will keep an eye on them... Luckily, they are in a high air flow area and are cleaned regularly. If I see this issue, will repost here.

 

[Liam's tank]

Back to the OP, just to be clear, no amount of aeration with untreated air, at an alkalinity of 9 dKH, will raise the pH to his goal of pH 8.4 at peak. Aeration with any indoor or outside air at that alk will not raise pH above about 8.2.

LOL, I was hoping you would get around to my OP. Do you have a recommendation based on all of the info I provided? Do you feel that 7.8 lights off & 8.1 lights at peek may be contributing to my lack of success with certain corals?

 

[Liam's tank]

I had a similar issue. I traced it down to carbon dosing as well. The correct dosing of 3 part (and I am using the same one) should be able to bump pH slowly up to desired range. I am just watching my ALK right now so it doesn't go crazy

How long have you been dosing the three part? How many ml in what size tank? Have you seen an increase in your ph?

 

[ti_lavender]

Something interesting (and one of the reasons I felt the tank was ready for SPS) was an SPS hitchhiked in on my live rock. It's an Oculina Robusta and it has been looking fantastic for the almost 15 months this tank has been set up.

This observation makes me think it's acclimation to your tank. I float for 20 minutes for temperature acclimation and then add them to the QT Tank. I make sure they get lower light levels initially to not further stress them out.

But also it seems that the location of that SPS hitchhiker is a getting great flow. My SPS aren't happy in the same flow that my LPS are. I think you need more flow in the areas that you're keeping the SPS. Try moving the Lepto to get more flow. What mode and settings do you have your wavemakers at?