Would you invest a grand for a KH Guardian?

[iiluisii]

Way too expensive for jut an Alk test. And using the dosing Alk according to the test as a selling point it's horrible. We all know how Alk test are and how reliable a regent can become look what happened to Hanna regents months ago.

Also I can't imagine the headaches after spending $1000 and having issues and dealing with coralviews customer service.

 

[NeverlosT]

So could this just as easily control effluent flow rate on a peristaltic pump from a calcium reactor? If the ALK is low, increase effluent flow rate, and if the ALK is high either do nothing or decrease flow rate?

It seems that this tech does not need to be restricted to dosing, it could work fine with a calcium reactor with controlled effluent.

Many folks that run calcium reactors quickly find that a peristaltic pump for controlling effluent delivery is a much more stable and safe way to run them than just using a needle valve that can clog.

 

[gcarroll]

you would then have to raise the cost to 2K+....few would probably consider it at that price point...you need to find a price that you can sell the unit at and recoup all the R&D money spent on the project....it has only been recently that 2 companies have come out with a true alk monitor....it has been needed for 25+ years in reefing....


We should all stop getting caught up on the price being a bit higher than you would like and be INCREDIBLY happy that this technology now exists for reefers to use...This is a long time coming in the reefing world, and in such a small population of people (unlike owning a dog for instance) that there are companies willing to invest the enormous amounts of R&D money to help us keep our tanks.

I think you said you are a friend of the designer. I ask that you set that aside for a moment. The business model designed around recouping R&D costs is a failing model. This hobby is a very small market. Although your friend may have spent many hours in R&D for this project, if he wants to survive long term, he needs to be looking at volume sales. In this industry, the higher margin of profit on a product, the more likely, another company is to reverse engineer it (ie: ARID chaeto reactors).


That being said, we have already established that there are other companies out there producing products with the same monitoring capabilities using the exact same process. Those companies probably priced those products so high because there market was miniscule and never though that there product would be welcomed at the hobbyists level. So really, how much R&D really went on other than just reverse engineering.

It does amaze me how many people will drop 1000.00 on a apex and hundreds more on apex accessories (pumps, feeders, etc) or 800.00 on a MP-60, yet scoff at 1K for monitoring and controlling a vital part of their tanks biology/water quality and are outraged. I agree this price point will exclude a number of people, but lets be honest, the a lot of the same people would also forego a Tunze for a Jebao pump to save money... not everything is free or a non-profit business...the development and commitment to bring a product like this to the market is expensive and needs to be recouped.


Can I buy this item at 1K...probably not at this point, but I cannot see anyone bashing the product or the company for the price point or what "it doesn't have". Lets all show some appreciation for this innovation and have something to strive for the next time we look at that 100.00 frag at the store or online...


I am not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers or start any kind of argument, however, this is the perspective we should use when this equipment is presented and not an adversarial one I see in so many posts here.[/

Personally I am very critical of the product. Admittedly it is because I feel it should be changed in such a way that hobbyists like myself can better utilize the technology. I do like the fact that it is available, but there are a lot of ways I feel the product could be better. I myself will discuss my thoughts with the Coralvue team and see if they can persuade them to seek changes to make the product more mainstream. I think that your personal ties to the designer are making it hard for you to take the constructive criticism.

 

[gus6464]

I highly doubt the apex version of this will be much cheaper now that neptune has acquired it. Plus who knows when that will be out. I don't think I would pay $1k for this but I would for sure pay $500 and maybe a little more.

This product might do a lot better in the EU market vs US.

 

[eg8r210]

Hold on to your dough guys. if you were to reverse engineer this thing, I think one would discover that it's just a simple group of dosing pumps that measure reagent and your tank water and the uses a colorimeter to test Alk. It just has to flush itself with RO/DI so it doesn't affect the next measurement. Do the math on the parts:

Three dosing pumps $150
Hanna Alk tester $50
Flush system $100?
Tubes and casing $15

I think I am being generous too. That leaves the controller which could be as simple as a couple Raspberry Pi computers?

Will be nice, but I think it's a bit like autonomous driving. It's great for 99.9% of the time, but that one time when something tiny goes wrong, it's all over.

HAHA, I can't wait to see what you come up with considering none of that makes sense based on what we have seen in the video.

 

[Carlos@CoralVue]

I think everyone has decided for themselves. How many people do you think would be interested in this might already own a doser and a controller? Most people who already own a doser with 3 pumps have the advantage to dose 3 different liquids and not have them all tied up doing one thing. Also this unit requires you to drop the tested water back into the tank without knowing how that might impact the tank long term OR have another container to capture this "waste" water. By the looks of the size of the unit and the possible requirement of a second container to capture the waste I think they are limited to users with larger tanks and room under the stand (provided they would want to hide all this equipment).

You are making it more complicated that it really needs to be. Since the waste is purged from the unit via doser pump, you can just place the waste line into your skimmer collection cup. Most skimmer collection cups have vent holes. The solution can then be dumped with your skimmate or if you have some type of waste collector, it will be dumped when you clean the waste collector once every week or so.

 

[eg8r210]

You are making it more complicated that it really needs to be. Since the waste is purged from the unit via doser pump, you can just place the waste line into your skimmer collection cup. Most skimmer collection cups have vent holes. The solution can then be dumped with your skimmate or if you have some type of waste collector, it will be dumped when you clean the waste collector once every week or so.

I hadn't thought about using the skimmer cup, but did mention to a buddy if I had a skim mate locker like the Avast product that is where I would point the waste.

 

[lou dog420]

No way, never!! I've worked with too many water quality testing instruments, reef disaster waiting to happen.

 

[iiluisii]

You are making it more complicated that it really needs to be. Since the waste is purged from the unit via doser pump, you can just place the waste line into your skimmer collection cup. Most skimmer collection cups have vent holes. The solution can then be dumped with your skimmate or if you have some type of waste collector, it will be dumped when you clean the waste collector once every week or so.

Yeah this would be fine until the skimmer overflows into your sump with or that waste regent to the sump.

 

[Ricardo@Coralvue]

Hold on to your dough guys. if you were to reverse engineer this thing, I think one would discover that it's just a simple group of dosing pumps that measure reagent and your tank water and the uses a colorimeter to test Alk. It just has to flush itself with RO/DI so it doesn't affect the next measurement. Do the math on the parts:

Three dosing pumps $150
Hanna Alk tester $50
Flush system $100?
Tubes and casing $15

I think I am being generous too. That leaves the controller which could be as simple as a couple Raspberry Pi computers?

Will be nice, but I think it's a bit like autonomous driving. It's great for 99.9% of the time, but that one time when something tiny goes wrong, it's all over.

To hard to make it that way, but I am sure if you have the knowledge to make it every company in the world will be asking you to sale to them including me

 

[lou dog420]

I spent 5 dollars on my kalk dripper, keeps my alk nice and stable!

 

[iiluisii]

If I send you $500.00 can you build me one,

Coralvue already showing their true colors. Why get snobby with people if you asked the question don't be jerks.

 

[Harris3005]

You are making it more complicated that it really needs to be. Since the waste is purged from the unit via doser pump, you can just place the waste line into your skimmer collection cup. Most skimmer collection cups have vent holes. The solution can then be dumped with your skimmate or if you have some type of waste collector, it will be dumped when you clean the waste collector once every week or so.

So for a $1000 dollar bit of kit your solution throughout all the R&D that's been done is to put the waste pipe into a vent hole in your Skimmer cup that may or may not be there? Surely if a Skimmer has a vent hole it's a vent hole and needs to be there and not be blocked otherwise pressure would build in the collection cup? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[tj w]

Wow, this thread is getting intense. From the sponsor as well. Seems to me this thread was created to get feedback, why get upset??[emoji102]

 

[tj w]

Thank goodness for the edit function, right guys?[emoji122]

 

[lou dog420]

I think for 1K its going to count out 75% of home hobbyist. .

 

[eltonw]

Some of you guys think to much on your existing devices as doser and Calcium reactor.

KHGuardian is not going to replace your existing devices but as assistant for your existing devices, moreover KHG will become 2nd insurance when doser or Calcium reactor has any problem, KHG will complete take over the job form your doser/reactor and worm the user.

It is the truly design direction when we think in the beginning.

You can lower your Co2 supplement or decrease the flow rate on your Calcium reactor and let KHG make up the deficiency and do the same thing on your current running doser for Alk.

***But most of our testers in Taiwan use it as a full function for adding Alk solution.

 

[iiluisii]

Some of you guys thought to much on your existing devices as doser and Calcium reactor.

KHGuardian is not going to replace your existing devices but as assistant for your existing devices, moreover KHG will become 2nd insurance when doser or Calcium reactor has any problem, KHG will complete take over the job form your doser/reactor and worm the user.

It is the truly design direction what we think in the beginning.

You can lower your Co2 supplement or decrease the flow rate on your Calcium reactor and let KHG make up the deficiency and do the same thing on your current running doser for Alk.

Again why would you rely on this to keep up with your dosing. We all know how regents work and $1000 for just a daily Alk reader? Come on let's get real. We basically have this already well the non lazy ones. There's this thing called Hana alkalinity checker which will cost you $50 and it comes with 25 test and a yeah of regent will cost $182 now you do the math

 

[reef_ranch]

The waste issue seem to me to be pretty meaningless. We already have to throw away the test water for every reagent based test we use. If you automate the process, you aren't there to throw it down the drain after every test, so you put it in a waste container appropriately sized for the number of tests you run in whatever period of time you want to go between dumping the waste. No big deal. Skimmer cup? Nah.

The more I look at this thing, the more I like it. I still want to know how accurate and precise it is, how they tested it and what the maintenance procedures are to keep it that accurate and precise. Oh, and what is the acid used, how long the container lasts and how much are the replacements?

 

[Jonty]

I thought the Apex unit was going to cost $1500 for the first run before it was taken in-house. I don't understand the anger I sense in some tone. Like many things in this hobby there are some very expensive pieces of equipment and coral frags for that matter that the majority can not or do not want to afford, that said there are many that can afford this unit and will buy it for the convenience and intrigue of a new piece of kit.