Would you invest a grand for a KH Guardian?

[swk]

My calcium reactor is so steady, and I test daily. So, for me 1000 is totally not worth it. 500 would be a different story entirely.

My main concerns in reading the site about the tech is that the old testing fluid gets flushed into the tank? That sketches me out.

 

[Chris155hp]

I belive it calculates Alk from pH from the info Ive gathered similar to the midstream. Maybe we can get some clarification on this??? The system that Neptune acquired the rights to actually tests pH in a very similar process to the hanna checker, it just does it automatically and repeatedly.

 

[Waterjockey]

When I watch the video it says Ph is calculated by a Ph probe ? give PH swings throughout the day how does this remain accurate? my Ph swings 7.9-8.15 each day but my Kh is stable over that range?

If it is just a Ph calculation why are not controller company's just building in the calculation to determine Alk for us?

I haven't watched the video yet, but I suspect it is a typical alkalinity tritation. Which means you take a known sample volume, and titrate it with a standard acid solution until the PH is about 4.5. The amount of acid required is then used in a simple calculation to determine the amount of alkalinity. It has nothing to do with your tank's pH swing.
From a reef keeping viewpoint @Randy Holmes-Farley has published an article or two explaining how to diy alkalinity tests.

 

[rizorido]

If Apex were the first to release this product, would you guys buy it ??!

 

[shoelaceike]

I agree completely. I lost every acan, 90% of my challice and SPS with value of over $15000. If I know a device like the KHG would have prevented the loss I would would not hesitate to pony up the $. I know for sure that I will not feel safe putting too much more money into the system till I have a Guardian.

Did something malfunction or just not dose enough?

 

[Waterjockey]

Hard sell for 1k for me. Already running Ca reactor and masterflex pump. So levels stay steady.
I would prefer just a monitor without the doser. I could justify $500 on that.

+1 Would be interested in a monitor, not necessarily with a doser.

 

[eg8r210]

If Apex were the first to release this product, would you guys buy it ??!

Heck no, especially after the catastrophe Neptune had with their controller. This product, for every good thing it may do, has the opportunity to completely wipe out your tank in a day. Are you willing to let a first run Neptune product have the chance?

 

[eschulist]

The monitor and dosing combined is pretty cool. But getting the alk value off of a pH probe instead of actual titration testing like Walsh's unit seems very imprecise. Now maybe that number doesn't really matter that much as long as it is monitoring it consistently. The true DKH might be off by .5 or even a whole value according to the unit. It may be set to 7.5 on the display but a accurate lab grade test says the water is actually 8.2 As long as the unit keeps the alkalinity stable at the value it thinks it is then it doesn't matter that much if its skewed up or down by a small amount.

If it is true that the unit is only using a ph probe why can't every controller already on the market run a similar calculation to derive DKH? Let the user then do whatever dosing method they choose to use.

 

[Dumaurier7]

Precisely why I wouldn't spend that and I'd wait for GHL to release theirs.

 

[Waterjockey]

The monitor and dosing combined is pretty cool. But getting the alk value off of a pH probe instead of actual titration testing like Walsh's unit seems very imprecise. Now maybe that number doesn't really matter that much as long as it is monitoring it consistently. The true DKH might be off by .5 or even a whole value according to the unit. It may be set to 7.5 on the display but a accurate lab grade test says the water is actually 8.2 As long as the unit keeps the alkalinity stable at the value it thinks it is then it doesn't matter that much if its skewed up or down by a small amount.

If it is true that the unit is only using a ph probe why can't every controller already on the market run a similar calculation to derive DKH? Let the user then do whatever dosing method they choose to use.

I suspect both use the same principle. The difference between calculating from your tank pH, and this, is it would take an exact size sample of water (like you do with any chemical test), and measure how much acid it takes to drop that sample to a pH of 4.5 (just like you do with any chemical test...this would use a pH probe instead of a colour changing reagent). From there, you can calculate dKh. You can't just calculate dkh from a pH probe in the tank.

While I am not 100% certain this is how either of the units work, from what I got from the video I strongly suspect that's how they do it

 

[Dumaurier7]

I can't understand how it would be priced the same as a complete top of line system which does control everything else and has WIFI (GHL) !?

 

[Carlos@CoralVue]

How much will all these "standardized" stock solutions last? How much money will refills cost?

Sodium Bicarbonate is baking soda. It is cheap and you can get it at any grocery store or even Target sells food grade baking soda. If you want to get the stuff that they sell at BRS then you can use that. In terms of how long it will last, well, that has to do with your tank's needs. The more your demand, the more solution it will use.

 

[Carlos@CoralVue]

I suspect both use the same principle. The difference between calculating from your tank pH, and this, is it would take an exact size sample of water (like you do with any chemical test), and measure how much acid it takes to drop that sample to a pH of 4.5 (just like you do with any chemical test...this would use a pH probe instead of a colour changing reagent). From there, you can calculate dKh. You can't just calculate dkh from a pH probe in the tank.

While I am not 100% certain this is how either of the units work, from what I got from the video I strongly suspect that's how they do it

Someone has done their homework!!!

 

[reefwiser]

Here is an industrial alk monitor unit.
https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web...F39F9536AC620A95C1257EDC0048B162?OpenDocument

And this is a research paper on using PH to measure alk.

http://alkalinitymeasurementdevice.onmason.com/files/2014/06/ECE-492-Design-Document_V4.pdf

 

[eltonw]

I suspect both use the same principle. The difference between calculating from your tank pH, and this, is it would take an exact size sample of water (like you do with any chemical test), and measure how much acid it takes to drop that sample to a pH of 4.5 (just like you do with any chemical test...this would use a pH probe instead of a colour changing reagent). From there, you can calculate dKh. You can't just calculate dkh from a pH probe in the tank.

While I am not 100% certain this is how either of the units work, from what I got from the video I strongly suspect that's how they do it

You are a smart guy!!!

if some one says he can do the similar device but not using these methods...he can just apply Nobel Prize.

We spend 4 years in quality improvemnt for this produt but not just spend few money and weeks then sell in the market.

 

[eltonw]

Here is an industrial alk monitor unit.
https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web...F39F9536AC620A95C1257EDC0048B162?OpenDocument

And this is a research paper on using PH to measure alk.

http://alkalinitymeasurementdevice.onmason.com/files/2014/06/ECE-492-Design-Document_V4.pdf

What I can say! you are a great man.
But combine all of the PCB modules together is a hard work.

 

[reef_ranch]

If you read the articles Reefwiser posted you realize that building an accurate and precise alk monitor ain't easy. The the cost of designing and manufacturing this unit makes it worth every penny of $1,000. The question is are you willing to pay that? I wouldn't for the same reasons others have said -- its simply too much money to automate a process that takes me a few minutes to do. I would probably pay $500 and possibly a bit more for the peace of mind that continuous monitoring brings.

 

[Dumaurier7]

For that amount of money or even a little more they could have incorporated a controller making it a truly competitive and complete package.

 

[Waterjockey]

You are a smart guy!!!

if some one says he can do the similar device but not using these methods...he can just apply Nobel Prize.

We spend 4 years in quality improvemnt for this produt but not just spend few money and weeks then sell in the market.

Not that I am particularly smart. In industrial water treatment you do a similar titration for p-alkalinity, m-alkalinity ->OH alk. Just using indicators instead of a pH probe. Randy Holmes-Farley has published articles on how to do it for the home reefer.
The theory is simple...the devil is in the details. I appreciate how much work must be done to build a machine to do this consistant and reliably. Then tuning the rate/reset for calculating how much to dose based on the net change. There would have been a ton of work to take the method and automate it for the average home user. A two part package might sell better. Let the consumer buy the tester, and the dosing pump setup as an add-on for those that would want it to controll alk as well. I would be interested in the monitoring, not as much in the dosing controller for example.

 

[reefwiser]

Everyone has to decide for ones self. There is alot of equipment to do this process. Three pumps a Ph probe and then a controller. So for the money it is fairly priced.